The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Worldshaper]

Are old gods weak against landmasses? If Titans can shape the planet like a world editor, why do they use Earthen for basic construction purposes?

The Titans hid away the Dragon Isles, Thros & The Elemental Planes. And Helya & Odyn uses that same mysterious method to hide away each other in turn in their own pocket dimensions as well. There might be other places, for all we know, as the Titans had many secrets. (I feel like we could have gotten an entirely new azeroth if one of the Incarnates just destroyed the devises keeping these places hidden & separate, as Uldorus does for the Dragon Isles.)

Anyway, my point is "The Shaping of Azeroth" is not a thing. It's not a term found anywhere in the game. It's vaguely referred to in one in-game book, not of azeroth but of a metaphorical description of the Titan's influence on planets in general. There is a song track titled "the Shaping of the World" but that's it.

I think "the Ordering" is another way of putting it.

"The Titans empowered a number of races to help them fashion the world. To help them carve out the fathomless caverns beneath the earth, the Titans created the dwarf-like earthen from magical, living stone. To help them dredge out the seas and lift the land from the sea floor, the Titans created the immense but gentle sea giants. For many ages the Titans moved and shaped the earth, until at last there remained one perfect continent. At the continent's center, the Titans crafted a lake of scintillating energies. The lake, which they named the Well of Eternity, was to be the fount of life for the world. Its potent energies would nurture the bones of the world and empower life to take root in the land's rich soil. Over time, plants, trees, monsters, and creatures of every kind began to thrive on the primordial continent. As twilight fell on the final day of their labors, the Titans named the continent Kalimdor: 'land of eternal starlight'."

My interpretation of that text is that they shaped Kalimdor below the ground and around its coasts to make it "perfect" for the Titans' purpose.

Basically like those megaprojects when the Netherlands raise their seafloor to expand their landmass.

In this text, that seems to be to spread life. But in reality, it might've been to simplify the imprisonment of the Old Gods and/or the worldsoul, or to sort of stabilise things after Aman'Thul messed up with the Well of Eternity.

They're covering up the Y'shaarj incident in this text, and obviously the Well of Eternity appeared after that. So the Ordering of Azeroth didn't start until after they had pulled out Y'shaarj. They trusted the Earthen to take care of it, because it required intricate work like digging particular tunnels, creating Titan installations, and so on. They didn't just want a Titan to scoop out a trillion tons of stone.

[Valysar]

Almost forgot about Alpha. Crazy to think it might be here within a month!

What are you guys hoping to see in that initial batch of datamining?

My hopes are:

- Some epic, Holy Light-themed transmog sets from the Arathi.

- Serious updates to character customisation for several races, like they alluded to after Dracthyr set a new bar in DF. Like, new face options and hairstyles, tattoos and beards, and maybe even poses?

- The long-awaited new class/race combos (unless they're slated for 10.2.7).

- Some fundamental changes to Professions after the mishaps in DF.

- Obviously a bunch of colourful new pets and mounts.

- Perhaps some clues that slip through the cracks and tease content beyond 11.0, for speculation.

Some world revamp models
New mounts is always exciting as a collector
New character customizations
Removal of Professions rank
New NPC models

[Dracullus]

For me most interesting will be details how Warbands work, what exactly is account wide and what not - especially with stuff they didn't talk about like professions. Delves are unknown too, but in general it's just giving struture to world content, not something groundbreaking.

[Cheezits]

Definitely interested in the Evolved Nerubian model and seeing if they are expressive/being modeled with players in mind.

[milkmustache]

Definitely interested in the Evolved Nerubian model and seeing if they are expressive/being modeled with players in mind.

I really find it hard to imagine that they're not at least leaving the door open on it. Dracthyr have essentially eased the curve for what could be considered a playable race with their armor restrictions.

That whole discussion is still intriguing to me. There's been a lot of push back on the lack of transmog ability with the Dracthyr, but in the same sense they're also the most customizable race to date. It's entirely possible an evolved nerubian would meet the same standards.

I can't help but think of the discussion surrounding the Nightborne models in this context; Suramar is a favorite amongst many due to the look given to it and the Nightborne, yet when they became an allied race, the players were given a new model that was just a reskinned night elf with some slight changes. While nice in theory, this pretty much took away all of the things that made the Nightborne such a cool race to players. Their heritage armor hardly even matches the style of armor we see on NPCs.

I wonder what the reception would have been had Blizzard released a playable Nightborne with the NPC models with optional armor similar to the Dracthyr, but with some slight transmog restrictions. I'm not sure the conversation would change much, just swap argument points from "Doesn't look like the NPC model" to "Doesn't feel like a player model".

Of course, the best case scenario would have been a Nightborne player model that was far more similar to the NPC models with more armor options, but that wasn't the case.

It's just something that's been on my mind whenever we consider the possibility of these new humanoid nerubians entering the fray. Earthen look to have the most customizations aside from Dracthyr, definitely maintaining a standard in player customability, but I think it's a point of interest to discuss Blizzard's philosphy on creature player models in a post-Dracthyr WoW.

[Sondrelk]

I really find it hard to imagine that they're not at least leaving the door open on it. Dracthyr have essentially eased the curve for what could be considered a playable race with their armor restrictions.

That whole discussion is still intriguing to me. There's been a lot of push back on the lack of transmog ability with the Dracthyr, but in the same sense they're also the most customizable race to date. It's entirely possible an evolved nerubian would meet the same standards.

Any future race with armour restrictions similar to Dracthyr will inevitably have to face the simple question: "What is transmog if not player model customization?"
Sure, Dracthyr has loads of customization options, and I do enjoy the flexibility it offers. And while the Dracthyr armour you get as customization options are nice, they do feel like a crutch to avoid having to let the Dracthyr actually use transmog properly.

Maybe the debate surrounding Drachtyr would have been different if we had reason to believe that the early developers tweet regarding Evoker sets being visible in dragon form actually came true then we might have had a different outlook on things. But as it stands it just means Dracthyr are seemingly arbitrarily locked out of a large amount of content.
You can make lots of cool transmog with the options available currently. But are we to expect that each expansion going forward will add more customization options to Dracthyr to justify the chunk of transmog we never get to see in Dragon form?

[Murlocos]

Dracthyr were a total miss in my book in the customization department. My eyes don't register them as looking unique the way I can see two members of the same regular race look wildly different, especially in silhouette. Measuring their popularity is impossible when they not only have an exclusive class but also an exclusive playstyle within that class, but I can't imagine they'd be nearly as played if other races had access to evoker and dracthyr had most of the other classes. I don't want them to keep going down this route of transmog-limited races that feel like you're playing an NPC model even with all the options dracthyr have.

Allied races make this frustrating because it's another example of the "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle" philosophy. Elves and now dwarves having their customization fragmented across multiple different races doesn't feel good. It feels like you're playing half a real race, watching your old base game race with their one page of options look more and more outdated. Or you get the BfA -> Shadowlands debacle where a bunch of people race changed to their allied race counterparts because they got more customization, then SL gave the base races more customization than them, then some of that got backported to the allied races after launch.

I think earthen are the thing I'm most puzzled about with TWW. So many allied races bombed in popularity and I can't see the 3rd dwarf variant faring much better. Feels like their biggest value is padding the feature list of the expansion.

[Cheezits]

The problem with Dracthyr type models is that if people don't like the base model, it doesn't matter that they are or aren't armor equippable. People have to like the base design to make up for that and Dracthyr didn't win in that regard. Neither did Mechagnomes. So it may or may not lead to fewer of those races down the road.

Earthern are likely only playable because they are encountered in the first quarter of the expansion and they were easy to fit in as a race. The actually requested player races don't fit into this expansion besides (classic) Nerubians. They could've made Dorn a Vrykul island just to shove Vrykul in, but eh. I like Dwarves more as it's more creative.

Nerubians may be the "real" race addition but won't be playable for a bit because of the work needed to make them a race. Whereas Earthen don't need as much work and can come first.

As for "why don't they just do another customization pass", they can't sell that so they didn't do it, IMO. They can't sell troll beards so it isn't their focus.

[doledippers]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...bruary-26-2024

8 new hero talents tomorrow, 3 new promos this week too

[UnholyGTX]

What are we thinking those 8 are going to be? Im hoping for at least one for Shamans, Rogues, Monks, Warlocks, and DHs since we havent gotten anything for them yet. The other 3 are kinda up in the air.

[doledippers]

What are we thinking those 8 are going to be? Im hoping for at least one for Shamans, Rogues, Monks, Warlocks, and DHs since we havent gotten anything for them yet. The other 3 are kinda up in the air.

probably a mixed bag of classes we havnt seen yet

[Enrif]

What are we thinking those 8 are going to be? Im hoping for at least one for Shamans, Rogues, Monks, Warlocks, and DHs since we havent gotten anything for them yet. The other 3 are kinda up in the air.

We have not seen anything for Demon Hunter, Monk, Rogue, Shaman and Warlock, so they are certainly there.
As for the other three, i think they might show of slayer or colossus for warrior to explain why no blademaster. Rework for Oracle would be too fast, so i don't think that. Probably another Druid one, as they got the most out of all classes. As for the last one... hmm i'd like to see deathbringer DK, Sentinel Hunter, Voidweaver Priest, Templar Paladin

[Worldshaper]

Dracthyr were a total miss in my book in the customization department. My eyes don't register them as looking unique the way I can see two members of the same regular race look wildly different, especially in silhouette. Measuring their popularity is impossible when they not only have an exclusive class but also an exclusive playstyle within that class, but I can't imagine they'd be nearly as played if other races had access to evoker and dracthyr had most of the other classes. I don't want them to keep going down this route of transmog-limited races that feel like you're playing an NPC model even with all the options dracthyr have.

Allied races make this frustrating because it's another example of the "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle" philosophy. Elves and now dwarves having their customization fragmented across multiple different races doesn't feel good. It feels like you're playing half a real race, watching your old base game race with their one page of options look more and more outdated. Or you get the BfA -> Shadowlands debacle where a bunch of people race changed to their allied race counterparts because they got more customization, then SL gave the base races more customization than them, then some of that got backported to the allied races after launch.

I think earthen are the thing I'm most puzzled about with TWW. So many allied races bombed in popularity and I can't see the 3rd dwarf variant faring much better. Feels like their biggest value is padding the feature list of the expansion.

I think Earthen is a choice based largely on telemetry and surveys. They probably have some internal data that shows Horde players want something a little more grounded and common, or whatever.

Could also be them laying the groundwork for something typically Horde going Alliance later on. Perhaps some major shakeup regarding elven races in Midnight?

[Nymrohd]

8 Hero Talents! OK now that's interesting And they clearly need the feedback

[Enrif]

Could also be them laying the groundwork for something typically Horde going Alliance later on. Perhaps some major shakeup regarding elven races in Midnight?

There was talks about Midnight having a big feature that will shake up things. And recently i got the following thinking: Midnight is about elven unification. And what is something that is unified? A Faction?
This got me thinking, elves had a bad hand with the horde and alliance in the last 30 or so years. What if the big thing coming for warcraft is a third faction? A neutral faction that is sick an tired of the alliance and horde problems. The elves create that faction. Earthen might join, and that's why they are available for both sides already with TWW.

We had interviews that the horde and alliance faction stuff is a mess to code away due to soo much legacy stuff being bound to it. But the same was said about character progress, and with TWW we get warbands. The next step would be to break down factions completely. So the big feature for Midnight could be: Neutral Factions/No Factions.

No more are the elves split between two factions.

[Worldshaper]

There was talks about Midnight having a big feature that will shake up things. And recently i got the following thinking: Midnight is about elven unification. And what is something that is unified? A Faction?
This got me thinking, elves had a bad hand with the horde and alliance in the last 30 or so years. What if the big thing coming for warcraft is a third faction? A neutral faction that is sick an tired of the alliance and horde problems. The elves create that faction. Earthen might join, and that's why they are available for both sides already with TWW.

We had interviews that the horde and alliance faction stuff is a mess to code away due to soo much legacy stuff being bound to it. But the same was said about character progress, and with TWW we get warbands. The next step would be to break down factions completely. So the big feature for Midnight could be: Neutral Factions/No Factions.

No more are the elves split between two factions.

Interesting ideas.

I think it would be pretty logical if factions were formed out of races with something in common.

But I doubt they'd rip current ones apart. Maybe a new neutral faction at most.

[Enrif]

Interesting ideas.

I think it would be pretty logical if factions were formed out of races with something in common.

But I doubt they'd rip current ones apart. Maybe a new neutral faction at most.

Certainly. A opt in/opt out. New character can be created directly in this neutral faction (or horde/alliance), while established characters would be able to switch in-game.

I would in a heartbeat swap all my characters from alliance/horde to being neutral.

[Auxis]

Eight Hero trees, March trading post AND 3 new promotions? Damn we eating good this week (in terms of news).

[Varodoc]

There's no need to make a "Neutral" faction. There's no need for a third faction.

What is long overdue is the ability to play a mercenary beyond just PvP battleground for faster queues.

The PC is supposed to be special, like Valeera Sanguinar (Blood Elf working for the House of Wrynn) and Renzik The Shiv (Goblin working for the SI:7).

There's no reason why the PC couldn't work as mercenary for the other faction. The option has already been there for years in PvP, it's a matter of just expanding it beyond PvP.

And I can already hear the thundering "bUt AlLiAnCe AnD hOrDe ArE tHe CoRe Of WoW"; I don't disagree, nor am I saying that factions should be removed. I'm just saying that a Blood Elf PC should be given the option to work for the Alliance if they want to, like Valeera Sanguinar was the bodyguard of King Varian Wrynn...

[Viridiel]

What are you guys hoping to see in that initial batch of datamining?

Definitely mainly the actual location of the new zones and anything that can be gleaned from large structures and new models. I'm worried that any fine details will be changed before release. I think it's fairly rare for them to do something like they did with Gorgrond and completely change a zone but it's not all that rare for them to completely change questlines and other lore points before release.

I'm still burnt from the loss of Farahlon