The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

Crazy how classes with already strong and clear class fantasies have good hero talents while generic ones have shit ones.

Who would have thought?

Heck with Priest they probably don't even know what to do. What even is a Holy/Shadow fantasy? The priest spontaneously combusts?

[Lady Atia]

Heck with Priest they probably don't even know what to do. What even is a Holy/Shadow fantasy? The priest spontaneously combusts?

No, that's literally what diszi priest is?

[Cherry123]

And so, with the release of 10.2.6, we can understand that alpha TWW will be released in mid-April.

[Viridiel]

Crazy how classes with already strong and clear class fantasies have good hero talents while generic ones have shit ones.

Who would have thought?

Exactly my feelings re Slayer. My second character is a fury warrior and I've long hated the complete lack of clarity between fury and arms in-game. Arms is meant to be skilled weapon master with big weapon using huge attacks that crush bones and cause bleeding, and fury is meant to be a flurry of rage-fuelled attacks with no particular regard for skill or precision. I think fury having a secondary flavour that introduces skill from arms to focus on executes and arms having a secondary flavour that introduces flurry attacks from fury is a great concept, and that's what Slayer could be if they committed harder.

I was excited for the idea of Slayer because I was hoping it would work to alleviate the arms-fury confusion by sequestering it into a hero spec and giving it its own separate flavour, but it doesn't look like they're willing to go that far and I can't say I'm surprised at all. Titan's Grip and Bladestorm should be removed from arms and fury and added to Slayer, Avatar should either be reworked to not affect size baseline or be removed from all of them and added to Colossus. Blizzard have done a lot to create clarity between pure DPS classes, but warrior is completely neglected. (I haven't played a rogue in a long time but it looks to me like subtlety and assassination no longer suffer from anywhere near the same lack of clarity they used to.)

I will be very happy if hero talents do their job of exposing these unclear spec fantasies and Blizzard is prompted to fix it by reworking the specs, but I'm a bit worried that they'll instead see it as an issue with the hero talents themselves and "fix" the wrong thing.

[Teriz]

Crazy how classes with already strong and clear class fantasies have good hero talents while generic ones have shit ones.

Who would have thought?

I don’t know… Demon Hunter has a strong class fantasy, but their hero tree looked terrible.

[Woggmer]

Okay, I've looked through them...

Rider of the Apocalypse: Amazing.
Deathbringer: Kinda meh from the sound of it but I want to test it myself (I'd stick to San'layn if I want to go blood tank)
Aldrachi Reaver: Never played DH much enough to get a gauge on it.
Druid of the Claw: Not interested in making a druid. (Nothing wrong with the talent tree though)
Flameshaper: I guess I can see some mileage for Devastation but.. ehhh..
Pack Leader: ...........What am I supposed to say about it that hasn't been echo'd by the Hunter playerbase?
Spellslinger: I can see the appeal.
Shado-Pan: The whole damage based on HP% thing is weird, like how many stacks of strikes can you produce?
Conduit: This goes way too hard for what it's trying to do.
Farseer: Probably the worst one for me personally, don't like Primordial Wave and I don't enjoy using it.
Hellcaller: It's basically giving Destruction an Agony spell.
Slayer: I would say it seems fun.. but that node for allowing you to use Pummel/Storm Bolt during Bladestorm is just revolting in PvP.

[Viridiel]

Heck with Priest they probably don't even know what to do. What even is a Holy/Shadow fantasy? The priest spontaneously combusts?

Discipline should definitely benefit from the existence of hero talents. Discipline's fantasy is meant to be a focus on the monastic, scholarly, ritual worship aspects of religion with no regard for a particular god or cosmic force, so essentially the aspects shared by both Holy and Shadow but not really a combination of the two. Gameplay-wise that means a focus on shields, damage buffs, damage mitigation, and healing through dealing damage. I don't play a Disc priest but I don't think they're far from that fantasy at all.

Archon should be a union of Holy and Shadow with lots of chaotic clashing between the two with big flashes and cosmic elements, and Discipline should be the intersection of Holy and Shadow with lots of Words and castigation and Catholic shame.

[Teriz]

Okay, I've looked through them...

Flameshaper: I guess I can see some mileage for Devastation but.. ehhh..

Engulf and the buffs to Dream Breath are going to be very good for Prevokers. In fact, all three of the Evoker trees are very strong. Almost to the point where I can see them getting nerfed very quickly.

[Auxis]

I don’t know… Demon Hunter has a strong class fantasy, but their hero tree looked terrible.

DH really only has one identity and that's the cliche Illidan/Illidari pre-Legion. Vengeance/hulk metamorphosis is entirely new, so of course one spec is going to feel off. Having said that, that's hinging entirely on the theory that the other spec is going to be closer to the Illidan/Illidari/Havoc roots.

[Makorus]

I don’t know… Demon Hunter has a strong class fantasy, but their hero tree looked terrible.

Does it though? It's a very simple one.

And what doesn't help the matter at all is that the individual specs literally have no discerning difference at all in terms of fantasy other than "One is a tank, one is a DPS".

[Teriz]

DH really only has one identity and that's the cliche Illidan/Illidari pre-Legion. Vengeance/hulk metamorphosis is entirely new, so of course one spec is going to feel off. Having said that, that's hinging entirely on the theory that the other spec is going to be closer to the Illidan/Illidari/Havoc roots.

Yeah, I can definitely see the limits to its design in that talent tree. I'm really hoping the other one is better.

[Makorus]

Engulf and the buffs to Dream Breath are going to be very good for Prevokers. In fact, all three of the Evoker trees are very strong. Almost to the point where I can see them getting nerfed very quickly.

Yeah, Evokers are eating incredibly well. If Blizzard just accepts defeat and changes them to full-range like they should have been from the get-go, it might even stay my main for TWW.

[Teriz]

Does it though? It's a very simple one.

And what doesn't help the matter at all is that the individual specs literally have no discerning difference at all in terms of fantasy other than "One is a tank, one is a DPS".

Yeah, “simple” is a nice way to put it. Someone likes it, because DH numbers are still solid, but that tree looks bland af IMO.

Yeah, Evokers are eating incredibly well. If Blizzard just accepts defeat and changes them to full-range like they should have been from the get-go, it might even stay my main for TWW.

It really helps that Evokers have a very deep design space to pull from. It’s essentially a 5-spec concept condensed into a three spec class. They also have several hero characters and the general concept of dragons to pull from for inspiration. It’s pretty cool to see what they’ve come up with, and I look forward to see what they come up with for the class in the future.

[Usagi Senshi]

Having more of a Shado-Pan flavor for my monk is something I've wanted for quite some time, and I like the build up mechanics for the new talents in that tree. I was already thinking about making my monk my main again but that may have cemented it in.

That being said......

Rider of the Apocalypse is even more compelling to me as a fantasy and I really love my frost DK and she's a panda too. I might have to play both in tandem but favor the DK more. Unless Deathbringer has some amazing visuals added in, I don't ever foresee myself playing that even if it does more damage. The mechanics and flavor alone for Riders wins out.

[doledippers]

Slightly OT perhaps, but since we're discussing Hero Talents... which characters do you have in mind for TWW, based on what we know so far?

I'm thinking of having one of each class ready, but realistically I'll probably only have one main and three main alts to fill the login screen camp.

Decided for the "Camp" So Far

-snip-

my camp is just gonna be my DH because im a one character player

**tho i do have alts for farming mounts and stuff hehe

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, Evokers are eating incredibly well. If Blizzard just accepts defeat and changes them to full-range like they should have been from the get-go, it might even stay my main for TWW.

yeah, honestly one of my favorite things from these new hero talents yesterday is the gigantic nuke that flameshaper evoker gets at the bottom of their tree. its so cool

[Teriz]

yeah, honestly one of my favorite things from these new hero talents yesterday is the gigantic nuke that flameshaper evoker gets at the bottom of their tree. its so cool

Honestly I love it. While I like fire breath and deep breath, I felt that Evokers were missing that instant AoE blast of fire that dragons should have. Engulf looks to scratch that itch for me. Also you can get 2 charges? ::chef's kiss::

I just hope they don't whiff on the animation for the spell.

[doledippers]

Honestly I love it. While I like fire breath and deep breath, I felt that Evokers were missing that instant AoE blast of fire that dragons should have. Engulf looks to scratch that itch for me. Also you can get 2 charges? ::chef's kiss::

I just hope they don't whiff on the animation for the spell.

my vision for what engulf should look like, is like a swirling flame around literally "engulfing" the enemy, similar to Flame Cloak from elder scrolls games

[Sondrelk]

Yeah, Evokers are eating incredibly well. If Blizzard just accepts defeat and changes them to full-range like they should have been from the get-go, it might even stay my main for TWW.

That, and let them have full transmog (except maybe cloaks) for Dragon form. The cosmetic armours they get are nice and all, but not a substitute for the full diversity of transmog.
Their shape is basically just female Worgen, and they get to transmog just fine.

Tre argument that Dracthyr have more customization is bullshit. The lack of transmog drastically lowers the overall customization available by orders of magnitude.
If nothing else the least they could do is let us have the Evoker sets as customization options in Dragon Form.

[Teriz]

my vision for what engulf should look like, is like a swirling flame around literally "engulfing" the enemy, similar to Flame Cloak from elder scrolls games

I picture something like this;



And yes, I realize that's Mario Bros.

- - - Updated - - -

That, and let them have full transmog (except maybe cloaks) for Dragon form. The cosmetic armours they get are nice and all, but not a substitute for the full diversity of transmog.
Their shape is basically just female Worgen, and they get to transmog just fine.

Tre argument that Dracthyr have more customization is bullshit. The lack of transmog drastically lowers the overall customization available by orders of magnitude.
If nothing else the least they could do is let us have the Evoker sets as customization options in Dragon Form.

I honestly believe that a lot of customization problems would be alleviated if they made the Dracthyr form better in general. Like give Dracthyr an option to look like this;



And you'd have less people complaining.

[Nymrohd]

That, and let them have full transmog (except maybe cloaks) for Dragon form. The cosmetic armours they get are nice and all, but not a substitute for the full diversity of transmog.
Their shape is basically just female Worgen, and they get to transmog just fine.

Tre argument that Dracthyr have more customization is bullshit. The lack of transmog drastically lowers the overall customization available by orders of magnitude.
If nothing else the least they could do is let us have the Evoker sets as customization options in Dragon Form.

I mean if you look at the AI thread and what AI has done with Dracthyr, keeping the shape of the creature but adding mog on it, the lack of mog in game is what makes it really fall short. They need to find a way to fit mogs on them and bar that, they should have at least made tier sets custom to Dracthyr!