The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Raetary]

The general expectation is that 10.2 would involve the Dream so I'd assume something related to NEs will be there.

One thing I'd like to see in DF and there is zero indication of it is a bigger cast for the red flight. The other four flights got a chance to show some of their members even if the screen time is poorly balanced but Reds have Alex and the dwarf and vulpera visage dragons neither of which are important enough to the larger narrative (though Veritastrasz seems like someone who could stick around). After killing Krasus in a book and then killing Calen in a mythic only raid boss, they are short of important NPCs. Plus it is the red flight, shouldn't there be more broodmothers than just Alex? Is she monopolizing all the D?

Ye, the reds got left on the sidelines after reclaiming the RLPs.

Seeing as Alex is the one that narrates the World Tree cinematic, i'm kinda hoping that they will be somewhat relevant in the Dream related things alongside the greens.
I want their 'Protectors of all Life' side to be more established, as is they are kinda just relegated to being broodmares.

[Teriz]

The hypothetical Murmur/sound based expansion would be as based around ETC/Bards as Legion was based around Illidan/DHs

Except it’s established that Demon Hunters and Illidan hunt and fight demons. So Demon Hunters being called on during an expansion about a demonic invasion makes sense.

Why would we need ETC for an elemental expansion? We beat murmur without ETC’s help in vanilla.

Also we have Thrall.

[Nightshade711]

Except it’s established that Demon Hunters and Illidan hunt and fight demons. So Demon Hunters being called on during an expansion about a demonic invasion makes sense.

Why would we need ETC for an elemental expansion? We beat murmur without ETC’s help in vanilla.

Also we have Thrall.

It’s made clear that Murmur wasn’t a “traditional” elemental and was a primordial part of the universe.

[Teriz]

It’s made clear that Murmur wasn’t a “traditional” elemental and was a primordial part of the universe.

I gotcha, but what makes ETC particularly equipped to handle him? Also what is Murmur trying to do to warrant an entire expansion with him as an antagonist?

[huth]

I gotcha, but what makes ETC particularly equipped to handle him? Also what is Murmur trying to do to warrant an entire expansion with him as an antagonist?

The same thing that made Monks particularly equipped to handle Garrosh. Nothing. That just isn't a requirement for a new class.

And Murmur is trying to destroy the Universe. Not particularly innovative, but certainly necessitating action.

[Teriz]

The same thing that made Monks particularly equipped to handle Garrosh. Nothing. That just isn't a requirement for a new class.

Per mod request, I’ll skip over that one…..

And Murmur is trying to destroy the Universe. Not particularly innovative, but certainly necessitating action.

And Murmur isn’t even on Azeroth, he’s in Outland, and he’s dead. How is Murmur going to be an expansion threat if he isn’t even an Azerothian elemental and can’t get to Azeroth?

[Raetary]

Per mod request, I’ll skip over that one…..



And Murmur isn’t even on Azeroth, he’s in Outland, and he’s dead. How is Murmur going to be an expansion threat if he isn’t even an Azerothian elemental and can’t get to Azeroth?

Murmur is not an Outland elemental, it got summoned there by the Shadow Council.

And Murmurs actual status is completely unknown, Deaths have never detered anyone from coming back, and that's not gonna suddenly change with some very loosely defined primordial elemental spirit with questionable origin and power.

The little bit we know of it can be easily expanded into more lore and content. (Blizzard has literally made expansions out of less than that)
Especially if they tied it to literally any other current cosmic stuff

Make it some manifestation of the First Ones, or maybe even a Cosmic Pantheon member.
If Dimensius is a sliver of the Void Lords, than Murmur can be a sliver of who knows what else.

[Teriz]

Murmur is not an Outland elemental, it got summoned there by the Shadow Council.

And Murmurs actual status is completely unknown, Deaths have never detered anyone from coming back, and that's not gonna suddenly change with some very loosely defined primordial elemental spirit with questionable origin and power.

The little bit we know of it can be easily expanded into more lore and content. (Blizzard has literally made expansions out of less than that)
Especially if they tied it to literally any other current cosmic stuff

Make it some manifestation of the First Ones, or maybe even a Cosmic Pantheon member.
If Dimensius is a sliver of the Void Lords, than Murmur can be a sliver of who knows what else.

That’s a bit of a stretch don’t you think? So someone on Azeroth is going to pick up the story of Murmur from Outland and try to summon them on Azeroth because………???

Then I suppose we get ETC to come in and play his latest heavy metal hit to stop him?

[Nightshade711]

And Murmur isn’t even on Azeroth, he’s in Outland, and he’s dead. How is Murmur going to be an expansion threat if he isn’t even an Azerothian elemental and can’t get to Azeroth?

He’s not an Outland elemental. He’s arguably not even an actual elemental given his description of being a “primordial part of the universe” or whatever.

Only a small whisper of Murmur was summoned to Outland, and he wasn’t ever killed he was banished.

Another description of Murmur.

Murmur is powerful that its entrance into existence shattered all reality around it. Mindless and existing only for chaos, its barest whisper was enough to destroy entire worlds

[Teriz]

He’s not an Outland elemental. He’s arguably not even an actual elemental.

Only a small whisper of Murmur was summoned to Outland, and he wasn’t ever killed he was banished.

He’s also never been summoned or even mentioned on Azeroth. That’s the more important point. He seems to be only known on Draenor/Outland. Unless we’re going to have a third expansion on Draenor, I’m not seeing this character as an expansion threat.

[Nightshade711]

He’s also never been summoned or even mentioned on Azeroth. That’s the more important point. He seems to be only known on Draenor/Outland. Unless we’re going to have a third expansion on Draenor, I’m not seeing this character as an expansion threat.

You’re saying something that’s part of the universe who is described like this…

Murmur is so powerful that its entrance into existence shattered all reality around it. Mindless and existing only for chaos, its barest whisper was enough to destroy entire worlds

In the beginning"... "So far away"... such phrases cannot begin to describe this elemental's origin. Its existence heralds pure destruction. Worlds shatter and the pieces scatter at its whim. Only the truly mad would think to summon it. Perhaps there is yet time to banish Murmur before it fully enters Outland

…could never be an expansion threat… but some random space goat could?

(Not to mention that we’ve had significantly less as expansion threats)

[huth]

That’s a bit of a stretch don’t you think? So someone on Azeroth is going to pick up the story of Murmur from Outland and try to summon them on Azeroth because………???

Then I suppose we get ETC to come in and play his latest heavy metal hit to stop him?

You've yet to provide anything more credible for your own claims. Yet you refuse to entertain the possibility that they can be dismissed just as easily.

[Teriz]

You’re saying something that’s part of the universe who is described like this…

…could never be an expansion threat… but some random space goat could?

Yrel is pretty far from a "random space goat". She's a rather popular lore character.

- - - Updated - - -

You've yet to provide anything more credible for your own claims. Yet you refuse to entertain the possibility that they can be dismissed just as easily.

I never said it wasn't possible, anything is possible. However, some things just seem a bit more likely than others. The idea that we're going to have an expansion revolving around some random raid boss from TBC doesn't seem very likely. Even less likely than that is that we would call up the ETC; a character that has zero heroic exploits in WoW's history and just sits outside random cities and faires and plays heavy metal music, to stop said random raid boss from TBC doesn't seem like a viable expansion concept.

Meanwhile, Yrel leading the army we saw in the Maghar intro quest into Azeroth seems likely. Along with said army, we can get Arrakoa and Ogres as playable races. Two playable races that WoW players have long wanted to play as. In that expansion, you COULD get a patch where some of the new arrivals from Draenor attempt to summon Murmur to cause some chaos, but that's about it.

Another possibility would be Undermine, since Blizzard has stated that after Zalarek Caverns, more underground areas were possible in the future, and developers stated that they wanted Goblin players to experience Undermine at some point in the future. Though I find that highly doubtful since that would involve Tinker, and we're coming right off the release of the Evoker class. Of course the Tinker could be a full support class, so who knows?

Even that Mystical pirate expansion concept about Nightsquall sounds more likely than an expansion based around Murmur.

- - - Updated - - -

Please stop derailing this thread.
Nobody cares who is right about the lore, it's a thread about the expansion and speculation about the next expansion.

We're talking about future expansions....

[Therougetitan]

Wowhead has an interesting post about trinkets based off past legendary weapons. There is Azzinoth, Doomhammer, Frostmourne, Sulfuras and Val'anyr. But there is also Seschenal which is Eonar's weapon. The other weapons are references to past weapons players received. But given it is a time themed patch what if they took advantage of it and teased something from the future? Emerald dream will be the next zone/raid so maybe Seschenal will appear as a weapon.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/paracau...-10-1-5-333088

[huth]

However, some things just seem a bit more likely than others.

No, you're just biased towards your own ideas. They are no more likely. Yrel and the Lightbound are, to the best of our knowledge, no longer in existence.


And for what it's worth, Chen has had exactly nothing in extra lore between WC3 TFT and MoP. If they want to use ETC for anything, they will simply create that lore.

You're not giving any relevant arguments for why your idea is better. You just assert it is and refuse to entertain the notion that you could just be wrong. Your personal opinion is not a relevant data point.

[Revamp Man]

Ok iridikron allies with the infinite
But why??
Assuming the iridikron is the one from the present that means we still have 2 left
The infinite now have the ability to do one of two things by going back to when galakrond died
1. They corrupt the would be aspects
Or
2. They find a way to empower moruzond there to full power thus removing the requirement for nozdormu to fall thus breaking that cycle and changing their fates.

I also believe they are aiming to try and revive galakrond somehow or want to use his body for something. What if galakrond wasn't formed by old god blood getting into water but he ate a dying old god after they were torn apart by the others

[Nightshade711]

Ok iridikron allies with the infinite
But why??
Assuming the iridikron is the one from the present that means we still have 2 left
The infinite now have the ability to do one of two things by going back to when galakrond died
1. They corrupt the would be aspects
Or
2. They find a way to empower moruzond there to full power thus removing the requirement for nozdormu to fall thus breaking that cycle and changing their fates.

I also believe they are aiming to try and revive galakrond somehow or want to use his body for something. What if galakrond wasn't formed by old god blood getting into water but he ate a dying old god after they were torn apart by the others

Tbh I think Iridikron could also be trying to drain power from Galakrond to make himself Galakrond 2.0

[Marlamin]

No, you spend your time nitpicking about lore and try to be right by throwing the ball at each other in turn. So it's no longer speculation...

While harsh I think there's some truth there, when it becomes arguing/a back and forth (while it's been polite) I don't really think it properly fits the speculation banner anymore. There is no use in defending one's speculation, it's speculation.

[Nymrohd]

Ok iridikron allies with the infinite
But why??
Assuming the iridikron is the one from the present that means we still have 2 left
The infinite now have the ability to do one of two things by going back to when galakrond died
1. They corrupt the would be aspects
Or
2. They find a way to empower moruzond there to full power thus removing the requirement for nozdormu to fall thus breaking that cycle and changing their fates.

I also believe they are aiming to try and revive galakrond somehow or want to use his body for something. What if galakrond wasn't formed by old god blood getting into water but he ate a dying old god after they were torn apart by the others

I guess we'll find out soon enough. There must be some comment he makes during the encounter that gives it up

[Dracullus]

I think it's safe to assume that whatever Iridikron plans to do here, he will succeed. That is usual how expacs go: Garrosh got his power, Guldan took control, N'zoth broke free, Jailer defeated Arbiter. Only exception was Legion, but even while opening way to Argus was Illidan's goal, it still made Legion invasion problem worse.

I'm starting to think main story will wrap up in 10.2. We already cover "main villain is gathering power" part in 10.1.5 and it would line up with Blizzcon right after raid cinematic in October. Iridikron would be for raid in western Ohn'ahran area, icy dragon would be boss for Azure span tower (alone or together with Fyrakk, but I think he will die elsewhere maybe during 10.1.7). As for filling 2024, they have a lot of choices actually (beside obvious "they will screw up Pandaria style (releasing everything in first year)":

- minor patches + bonus season in March (all DF raids up, new set of M+) + release in Summer
- minor patches + recycled raids in March (M+ style from older expacs) + bonus shorter season in Summer (all DF raids up, new set of M+) + release for Christmas
- 10.3 not connected to main story, let's say Pirate patch + minor patches + bonus shorter season in Summer + release for Christmas.