The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dracullus]

Fundamentally, its clear Midnight is their big sales pitch moment. The War Within is just a dead fish that they can escape from whenever they want without any repercussions.

Just keep those expectations in mind and you will be fine.

They want ALL to be "big sales moment", that's why they announced it together. Revealing TWW alone while people yearn for return to old world would be a flop, even if it's isn't something completely fresh like Avaloren - both underground and old god kingdom were one of remaining requests.

Imo big new feature in Midnight will be player housing, not some crazy new type of content. Fits well with Quel'Thalas.

In Last Titan they can go all crazy with character power - both in game and in story, something like Legion but without unnecessary grinds. BfA situation will be avoided if 14.0 will be level squish + talents redesign for all + total down to earth story in some part of old world.

Also obviously we can expect new class in 12.0 or 13.0. My bet is on Last Titan personally, we don't have really Titan focused class. They could even pull Tinker there.

[Cheezits]

Artificer/Tinker is my bet for next class unless Midnight adds in another Void class.

A secret option may be an Order based class that isn't Arcane-themed, so not Mage or Evoker. Maybe like an Order-based plate user? The aesthetics are too similar to Paladin though.

[Alanar]

There are a couple screenshots with regular humans, but they are very far away and feel like placeholders. Or it could just be like Kul Tiras and there are different "castes" of humans that look different.

I forgot about the placeholder Kul Tiran and I think that is very telling. To my knowledge they have never used the Kul Tiran model for a regular big human who isn't Kul Tiran, so it likely is placeholder for some kind of large human model.

Ye it's telling for sure.

Personally I don't see much resemblance with the Vrykul, besides that they are a offspring, a separate group of humans who went it's own way. So it's hard to picture them with the vrykul style or model. The Vrykul are still the progenitors after all.

I only see thin humans or regular human model, which are slightly larger, with maybe a different idle animation and maybe (like you suggested) holy tattoos. Both options don't really do much, besides giving human model to Horde, alliance would then get another one they already have ( if it's the same as Earthen) idk how exciting that will be. I am not happy with Earthen Choice either. I am not sure why horde would care for the dwarf model and it showed in the comments as well. Maybe a handful here likes the choice. Officials are a different story as usual.

[Cheezits]

Imo big new feature in Midnight will be player housing, not some crazy new type of content. Fits well with Quel'Thalas.

Agreed. It will be an instanced apartment and/or maybe a player settlement in each of the redone zones (so SMC/Eversong, Ghostlands, Zulaman and ???) and props you can collect and place, nothing crazy but it will definitely scratch the itch.

[Ersula]

I do think the unlock structure will be Earthen -> Nerubian -> Arathi, even if Arathi are just humans with funky light infusions or tattoos. But it would be fun if they are larger and retooled a bit to resemble Vrykul (similar to the fan concepts pre-TWW) in their rigs/animations. Realistically they will be another tattoo/texture AR like Earthen because Nerubians are going to require a lot more time.

It makes sense for us to temporarily help Arathi, liberate Nerubians, and then go back up with them to help Arathi finitely deal with what is going on with the sea creatures and/or crystal.

If we didn't get Venthyr, Tuskaar or Gnolls, we definitely aren't getting "Underground humans". Biped Nerubians are possible but not likely.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I don't think so. There seems to be clearly something with Allera/Xal that HAS to happen for Midnight to happen. Probably Xal's "defeat" and Alleria's subsequent corruption and/or possession. So they are kind of locked into the three patch/two major patch structure unless they completely ditch 10.1 (DOUBT)

I mean they could finish that in 11.0 and then 11.1 is the final patch, obviously more likely outcome is that 11.2 is the final patch though with the precedent and Ions wording that SL and DF is now the cadence.

[Cheezits]

Ye it's telling for sure.

Personally I don't see much resemblance with the Vrykul, besides that they are an offspring. So it's hard to picture them with that style.

I only see thin humans or regular human model, which are slightly larger, with maybe a different idle animation and maybe (like you suggested) holy tattoos. Both options don't really do much, besides giving human model to Horde, alliance would then get another one they already have ( if it's the same as Earthen) idk how exciting that will be.

The Vrykul thing is basically an old fan-concept where Arathi kind of resemble them/look more primal because they are the oldest Human tribe, so closest to Vrykul in culture. Also in lore they have been very smashy/warrior based, so big guys.

Kul Tirans are similarly big because of Drust/Vrykul half-breeding (this is canon despite what people said in interviews, lol) but they didn't give them a muscular option. So maybe this is where that will happen (plus, as you said, neutral Human-types would be a crazy gimmick for Horde)

[Alanar]

The Vrykul thing is basically an old fan-concept where Arathi kind of resemble them/look more primal because they are the oldest Human tribe, so closest to Vrykul in culture. Also in lore they have been very smashy/warrior based, so big guys.

Kul Tirans are similarly big because of Drust/Vrykul half-breeding (this is canon despite what people said in interviews, lol) but they didn't give them a muscular option. So maybe this is where that will happen (plus, as you said, neutral Human-types would be a crazy gimmick for Horde)

Ah, I forgot about that concept. I see what you mean. I mentioned the thin model, since that was a concept as well with the same name Árathi'.

Ye, well honestly.. I hated they made that reference, since Kul tiran are so.. idk never liked them and never linked them to anything Vrykul related/dust, besides being a human variant. It makes more sense to me, that some Vrykul were turned into drust., experimenting with other magics, which they already do many times before. We still have many active Vrykul around. The share the same model as well. Even the model of Kul tiran is weird, both male and female. Idk were they gained that weight or why this made any sense.

[Lady Atia]

If we didn't get Venthyr, Tuskaar or Gnolls, we definitely aren't getting "Underground humans". Biped Nerubians are possible but not likely.

I mean, depending on how the WSS goes, and how many allied races we will get there, I can see a future were Blizzard is confortable with releasing a bunch of races for minor patches. The covenant races could easily come into the game again when we revisit the big cosmic war against the 7th force. Tuskarr could fit either into TLT or as a surprise dragonflight thing for the last patch there. Gnolls never looked like playable models imo, but we kinda got a story hook for them with Amirdrassil too.

[Cheezits]

If we didn't get Venthyr, Tuskaar or Gnolls, we definitely aren't getting "Underground humans". Biped Nerubians are possible but not likely.

A Human AR is 1000000000% more likely than all those races because they are humans and normal players almost exclusively play humans and elves.

[Alanar]

I mean, depending on how the WSS goes, and how many allied races we will get there, I can see a future were Blizzard is confortable with releasing a bunch of races for minor patches. The covenant races could easily come into the game again when we revisit the big cosmic war against the 7th force. Tuskarr could fit either into TLT or as a surprise dragonflight thing for the last patch there. Gnolls never looked like playable models imo, but we kinda got a story hook for them with Amirdrassil too.

I mean, they could bring Gnolls and Tuskar back and already have a hook from DF, but I can see them trying out other things.

Humans and Elves are most played and humans to the horde is the last thing there that needs to be done to have both models on both sides.
I feel like that is more likely at this point, especially after Dwarves for the horde and a big human faction coming in TWW.

[Cheezits]

I mean, depending on how the WSS goes, and how many allied races we will get there, I can see a future were Blizzard is confortable with releasing a bunch of races for minor patches. The covenant races could easily come into the game again when we revisit the big cosmic war against the 7th force. Tuskarr could fit either into TLT or as a surprise dragonflight thing for the last patch there. Gnolls never looked like playable models imo, but we kinda got a story hook for them with Amirdrassil too.

If they are cooking up Tuskarr I think it may be for TLT as they will clearly have a presence there, arguably larger than DF. They just need animations and proper armor rigging now that the two models have been created.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, they could bring Gnolls and Tuskar back and already have a hook from DF, but I can see them trying out other things.

Humans and Elves are most played and humans to the horde is the last thing there that needs to be done to have both models on both sides.
I feel like that is more likely at this point, especially after Dwarves for the horde and a big human faction coming in TWW.

I can think of a certain few twitter people that would have a heart attack, but Hallowsfall Arathi would be a very interesting way of putting Humans (of some form) on the Horde. I don't think its a jump either, as they have zero skin in the game on Alliance v Horde.

- - - Updated - - -

Idk were they gained that weight or why this made any sense.

They are just fat because "fat hearty sailors" is an aesthetic choice by Blzizard. They are big because half Drust-ancestry, which is Vrykul, and because they are half-breeds instead of simple descendants they retain some of their large size.

If there is going to be a "large muscular in-shape human" race it will be Vrykul or another kind of Vrykul-related AR, and Arathi could fit that bill.

Vrykul can happen in TLT, but I still think they are too damn big to ever be playable, and if they shrunk them to be KT/Tauren/Zandalari height they would no longer be Vrykul because part of their original aesthetic is that they are viking giants.

[Alanar]

I can think of a certain few twitter people that would have a heart attack, but Hallowsfall Arathi would be a very interesting way of putting Humans (of some form) on the Horde. I don't think its a jump either, as they have zero skin in the game on Alliance v Horde.

They are just fat because "fat hearty sailors" is an aesthetic choice. They are big because half Drust-ancestry, which is Vrykul, and because they are half-breeds instead of simple descendants they retain some of their large size.

I personally think this sounds like the most plausible option ( if) we get this as a playable race. I am just assuming here, but they just gave the horde the dwarf model, it feels almost like the obvious route at this point. The most played race on the horde is already playable on the alliance, they already started doing this, so it's only natural the rest will follow eventually.

Ye, maybe I just didn't quite followed the drust-ancestry or read much about it. I remember it being speculated, but any human variant is a decedent of the Vrykul, so that is a given. The problem was that with this, people were kinda suggesting saying Kul tiran are our Vrykul and that is simply not the case. the Drust story is kinda off to me, but that is my opinion only, same as how the aesthetic choice didn't made much sense. I mean what, eating fat salmon fish made them fat? they look nothing like drust or Vrykul either. Their models were a rush job and they feel still very off to me in general;p

[huth]

Exactly. I also added some context in previous post.

If Earthen was the only race we would get, it would simply be named: New race: Earthen. Why else would they bring back this feauture from bfa, were it was used for multiple.

Doesn't mean they're an Allied Race because there are multiples. Correlation is not causation.

[Ersula]

I mean, depending on how the WSS goes, and how many allied races we will get there, I can see a future were Blizzard is confortable with releasing a bunch of races for minor patches. The covenant races could easily come into the game again when we revisit the big cosmic war against the 7th force. Tuskarr could fit either into TLT or as a surprise dragonflight thing for the last patch there. Gnolls never looked like playable models imo, but we kinda got a story hook for them with Amirdrassil too.

So your hypothetical is that if they exponentially increase the number of allied races over a short amount of time, then all kinds of unlikely races will be playable? Sure...they would have to be in that scenario. The same ten races appear on everyone's "possible allied race" speculation posts.

Considering Stormwind humans already represent 90% of all the other human kingdoms in terms of character models, an Arathi allied race would be extra redundant. Maybe if they have unique features, but considering they didn't show any of that in the preview, I'm going to say that's a no too.

[Cheezits]

I personally think this sounds like the most plausible option ( if) we get this as a playable race. I am just assuming here, but they just gave the horde the dwarf model, it feels almost like the obvious route at this point. The most played race on the horde is already playable on the alliance, they already started doing this, so it's only natural the rest will follow eventually.

Ye, maybe I just didn't quite followed the drust-ancestry or read much about it. I remember it being speculated, but any human variant is a decedent of the Vrykul, so that is a given. The problem was that with this, people were kinda suggesting saying Kul tiran are our Vrykul and that is simply not the case. the Drust story is kinda off to me, but that is my opinion only.

My personal conspiracy theory is that they tried to bury the Drust = Vrykul clan thing into the dirt because BFA was getting a shit ton of "HALF MEASURE RACES WAAAA" complaints from Alliance (Velf instead of Helf, LFD instead of Broken, etc), and if they made it more blatant that the Kul Tirans are big because they are half-Vrykul, it would only have made normal players angrier that they didn't get Vrykul instead.

The lore is there. Ulfric the druid basically confirms the Thornspeakers (all Kul Tiran big guys) are called to their druid ancestors (Drust). I believe he also confirms that they married into society. He also NEVER shifts out of druid form, as he would be revealed as a Vrykul, something that is also implied by him being so large. They just never blatantly confirm it in lore and there was one interview where a dev (was it Alex?) said "no they aren't part Vrykul" despite everything to the contrary.

That being said... I think Arathi are way more likely than Vrykul (Scarlet Crusade aesthetic + Vrykul inspriation), so we will probably get two "Vrykul Half Measure" races. But because these guys will be conventionally attractive, people won't complain.

- - - Updated - - -

Considering Stormwind humans already represent 90% of all the other human kingdoms in terms of character models, an Arathi allied race would be extra redundant. Maybe if they have unique features, but considering they didn't show any of that in the preview, I'm going to say that's a no too.

They didn't show a single Arathi NPC up front, just their armor sketched on a human model. It's clearly the model with the least work done compared to Dorne Eathern (finished) and Evolved Nerubians (still need work).

I think that also kind of points to them being the third unlockable race, because they are third in progress.

[Alanar]

My personal conspiracy theory is that they tried to bury the Drust = Vrykul clan thing into the dirt because BFA was getting a shit ton of "HALF MEASURE RACES WAAAA" complaints from Alliance (Velf instead of Helf, LFD instead of Broken, etc), and if they made it more blatant that the Kul Tirans are big because they are half-Vrykul, it would only have made normal players angrier that they didn't get Vrykul instead.

The lore is there. Ulfric the druid basically confirms the Thornspeakers (all Kul Tiran big guys) are called to their druid ancestors (Drust). I believe he also confirms that they married into society. He also NEVER shifts out of druid form, as he would be revealed as a Vrykul, something that is also implied by him being so large. They just never blatantly confirm it in lore and there was one interview where a dev (was it Alex?) said "no they aren't part Vrykul" despite everything to the contrary.

That being said... I think Arathi are way more likely than Vrykul (Scarlet Crusade aesthetic + Vrykul inspriation), so we will probably get two "Vrykul Half Measure" races. But because these guys will be conventionally attractive, people won't complain.

Ye plausible, I mean we had Vrykul all around us in Legion, the Valarjar or the faction of Vrykul we helped (new queen etc) could have been a thing with the prepatch for BFA. Personally I would have swapped void and lf with Vrykul and Broken. It would have been two unplayable models, made playable, instead of one!. I would have liked that idea better, then the whole sharing thing. I am more in favor of, you pick the alliance models and horde for their models., but I know we are past that a long time now. Anyway, I think you nailed it there what I highlighted. I do remember the complaints and the simple question of why not giving us regular Vrykul was a thing. Luckily it was clear very quickly that Kul'tiran were not actually Vrykul. Just another version of the human race.

Ye, I know the lore is there, but it's kind half assed as you said. It did really felt like it was just dropped, until some drust guy showed up in Shadowlands. Also don't remember how that ended. I mostly deleted stuff from Shadowlands.. sorry. Anyway, I will try to read more about it, I am clearly out of the loop with Drust/kultiran link.

Yes, I also do believe the Arathi humans seem more likely then Vrykul. Altho, I do really like the Scarlet Crusade fanatic ways, I do hope this faction isn't easily swayed and feel like there is some hard to get play. Make them interesting and not just holy humans that are super nice and welcoming. If I had a choice, I would leave enough room so that Vrykul could still be there own thing. I rather leave that link out in a major like way and let the Arathi be and have their own cool thing. But, if they do end up with a modified human model with Vrykul feautures I think I will be down if they end up being horde. If that happens, the chances of getting ACTUAL Vrykul in the future becomes rather slim I think.

[Cheezits]

I think Vrykul are just never-ever. Too big. You can make large humans that act like them but unless there is a shrunken version canonically it can't be done, because their size is such an important part of them.

[Alanar]

I think Vrykul are just never-ever. Too big. You can make large humans that act like them but unless there is a shrunken version canonically it can't be done, because their size is such an important part of them.

We have seen multiple smaller sized ones in Stormheim and on the broken isle in general. Being slightly larger then Tauren would be perfectly fine and they would still feel large enough. I have the same feeling when I play a Zandalari, I feel kinda huge. Try out the Vrykul toy+horn, their model works perfectly with that size and you would still tower bove everyone else, but still be able to move through doors etc.. I also think why they are so likable isn't really about their size in general, there is much more to them. I wouldn't say it's a never-ever case just yet.

[Cheezits]

We have seen multiple smaller sized ones in Stormheim and on the broken isle in general. Being slightly larger then Tauren would be perfectly fine and they would still feel large enough. I have the same feeling when I play a Zandalari, I feel kinda huge. I think their niche or why they are likeable isn't just their size alone. I wouldn't say it's a never-ever case just yet.

What's funny is that the Kul Tirans are already Tauren-sized (not counting the hump), you just don't see them next to each other often.



You could make a Vrykul thats a little bigger than Tauren, but I'm not sure if it would still look like a Vrykul, which is why I think they would angle for a different kind of ""Big (Sexy) Human".

Even the smaller-ish ones in Legion are huge.