The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

No, you're just biased towards your own ideas. They are no more likely. Yrel and the Lightbound are, to the best of our knowledge, no longer in existence.

TBF, we got a hint of Yrel during Shadowlands;



https://www.wowhead.com/news/battle-...nd-yrel-322224

Nothing earth-shattering, but interesting nonetheless.

And for what it's worth, Chen has had exactly nothing in extra lore between WC3 TFT and MoP. If they want to use ETC for anything, they will simply create that lore.

Actually there was the empty keg quest in Vanilla (which assured that Chen and Pandaria were canon in WoW), the Pandaren Brewmaster class in the WoW TTRPG which was canon at the time and expanded the lore, and the Pandaren Monk pet that we got in WotLK which pretty much led to the class a few expansions later.

You're not giving any relevant arguments for why your idea is better. You just assert it is and refuse to entertain the notion that you could just be wrong. Your personal opinion is not a relevant data point.

Murmur never appearing in anything other than Draenor content is a relevant argument. The ETC not matching up with Murmur (or any other content) on any level because it lacks a lore basis is a relevant argument. Yrel being a popular character, a new type of enemy (light-based), and opening the door to new possible races is also a relevant argument.

[huth]

Nothing

Yep, that's all you actually have.

And no, none of your arguments are relevant. None of that even matters at all. Especially not anything not having lore - lore can be created and is constantly so. A character not having any lore for something simply means the devs are free to have them develop however they like. The more established a character is, the more restricted they are on what can be done with it.

[Teriz]

Yep, that's all you actually have.

And no, none of your arguments are relevant. None of that even matters at all. Especially not anything not having lore - lore can be created and is constantly so. A character not having any lore for something simply means the devs are free to have them develop however they like. The more established a character is, the more restricted they are on what can be done with it.

A character sort of needs to have lore before they build an expansion around them. I can't think of any expansion based on a character(s) that have no lore.

[Revamp Man]

No idea but the stake that happens seems to be centered around infinite flight and rotting with the corpse of Galakrond. Besides, what is this artifact that Iridikrond uses? Is he looking for a way to absorb his rotting power or somehow resurrect him? And why ? Also seems to me that the last dungeon boss with the gnolls doesn't die at the end, she stuns us and teleports. Will she play a role in this whole story? Is there a link? There's also Vyranoth who's probably looking to take on the Emerald Dream, but again, why do that?

I have way too many questions. We do not yet have enough elements in our possession to understand all this.

It seems the Incarnates have a master plan. All we know today is that they seek to purify their people from the corruption of the titans. So far we did not really understand what this meant, then we could read in the books of Uldaman where it is said that Odyn, following the corruption of the waters by Yogg-Saron and its purification, ordered Tyr to imbue the waters of Uldorus with magic of Order so he can better "control" the Dragons and be more..."malleable".

Which is quite a shocking revelation. This explains the motivations of incarnates. But beyond that, even if they succeed, what is the purpose? Is there a connection with infinite flight? Or with the forged by the titans "rebels" who are against the will of their creators, the Titans? All of this may even have a broader connection to Avaloren. What would tie in with the next expansion, and Nightsquall would be the intro since he's the only one who went there and came back "unscathed"? We know from the books that he is looking for an artifact in the Dragon Isles.

It's all extremely exciting and I can't wait to see how all of this storyline unfolds!

I think that brackenhide is connected to the infinite and iridikron
Decay is the theme of the gnolls
The artifact iridikron uses COULD be the disc that we look for in uldaman
This item is meant to help empower the dragon aspects

What if the goal is to use it to empower iridikron with galakrond's energy which from the undeath theme could become decay if mixed with earth

[loras]

Why are people so certain we will have Emerald Dream Content in Dragonflight, the Dream hasn't even been mentioned. (It hasn't. Ardenweald is not the Dream. Worldtrees don't even appear in the Dream because none of them appeared on Azeroth without mortal intervention. People keep insisting it has but it hasn't.)
That makes a lot of sense, but I'm pretty sure you have to be a dragon to be an aspect. A full-fledged dragon, not an offshoot like Drakthyr are. I don't think Drakthyr can even lay eggs.
Elite Tauren Cheiftan predates all that dragon lore. None of the aspects were even a thing until long after Warcraft's first band was introduced. You like to make these big absolutist statements while always missing a big obvious detail. The latest class only "comes from" that existing lore in a tangential way: Evoker's "prismatic dragons" have nothing to do with "chromatic dragons" and were invented wholesale for this expansion.
ETC was a playable recruit hero in W3; Like Brewmaster & Dark Ranger. And if you want to acknowledge hearthstone expansion lore as a positive you might want to look at what the theme for the latest one is. (It's bards.)N'zoth appears only in the Time Rifts, so speaking of joke characters, how does it feel to have the worst of the Old Gods being reduced to a joke character?

ETC was playable in WC3? Ah, you mean the tauren hero unit with zero connection to bards, just a reskinned Cairne.

If we're borrowing from hearthstone anyway one of its earlier expansions centred around gnomes vs. goblins, and the theme has repeated if i recall correctly; later on there was a villainous tinker named dr. boom you could play as.

Not saying the bard theme isn't there in the latest expansion, but just as in WoW: The support for tinkers is just leagues ahead of bards.

Not saying either is likely or unlikely, just saying that tinkers have by far the better existing support for being added based on in-game sources as things stand at present. If they want to add bards then they will, but it'll be yet more out of the blue than the drac'thyr.

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Why are people so certain we will have Emerald Dream Content in Dragonflight, the Dream hasn't even been mentioned. (It hasn't. Ardenweald is not the Dream. Worldtrees don't even appear in the Dream because none of them appeared on Azeroth without mortal intervention. People keep insisting it has but it hasn't.)
That makes a lot of sense, but I'm pretty sure you have to be a dragon to be an aspect. A full-fledged dragon, not an offshoot like Drakthyr are. I don't think Drakthyr can even lay eggs.
Elite Tauren Cheiftan predates all that dragon lore. None of the aspects were even a thing until long after Warcraft's first band was introduced. You like to make these big absolutist statements while always missing a big obvious detail. The latest class only "comes from" that existing lore in a tangential way: Evoker's "prismatic dragons" have nothing to do with "chromatic dragons" and were invented wholesale for this expansion.
ETC was a playable recruit hero in W3; Like Brewmaster & Dark Ranger. And if you want to acknowledge hearthstone expansion lore as a positive you might want to look at what the theme for the latest one is. (It's bards.)N'zoth appears only in the Time Rifts, so speaking of joke characters, how does it feel to have the worst of the Old Gods being reduced to a joke character?

ETC was playable in WC3? Ah, you mean the tauren hero unit with zero connection to bards, just a reskinned Cairne.

If we're borrowing from hearthstone anyway one of its earlier expansions centred around gnomes vs. goblins, and the theme has repeated if i recall correctly; later on there was a villainous tinker named dr. boom you could play as.

Not saying the bard theme isn't there in the latest expansion, but just as in WoW: The support for tinkers is just leagues ahead of bards.

Not saying either is likely or unlikely, just saying that tinkers have by far the better existing support for being added based on in-game sources as things stand at present. If they want to add bards then they will, but it'll be yet more out of the blue than the drac'thyr.

A.k.a. they have some serious work ahead of them if they want to do that.

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He isn’t talking about Tinker.
He’s talking about some “explorer” class.

Everybody and their mothers know about Tinkers and their place in lore especially after BfA.

Oh, hadn't even heard of that (what's that even supposed to be? A conquistador? That's either just a warrior or an overzealous "dark" retridin), figured redacted would be tinker since he got a lot of flak for a bit overenthousiastically supporting that.

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There's good evidence going both ways. I'm generally partial to the idea that they'd fit best as a specialization simply on account of the fact they'd need an expansion theme conducive to their addition if they were to be a class, and because it would be easiest to limit them entirely to a support role if they were a specialization designed to fill that role, but anything can happen now that Dracthyr exist.



I definitely doubt that a Bard class would manifest referencing either of those precedents; Teriz is definitely incorrect in assuming that a class could be ever be released based on that particular theming. I figure that if there is a Bard class, it would have to emerge as a wholly new entity akin to the Evokers than from the alleged basis existing in those two gaggles of joke characters.



No.

Fair.

Also i apparantly mistakenly thought he referred to tinkers.
The explorer thing doesn't even seem worth a serious consideration.

And yeah, a new basis might work for bards.
Murmur comes to mind as an absurdly powerful "patron" or "source" of acoustic destruction, sitens as examples of manipulation and recently we've heard of Ohn'ahra's song manifesting winds (probably metaphorical, but they can still take that whichever way they want.
Then there are the void's whispers which tie in nicely with d&d's college of shadows, one could borrow fron the rogue-but-not-quite archetype of honorable yet exhibitionistic duelist too for martial prowess and tying in to the college of blades. And then for a third specc one could go with something more acting focussed, maybe tossing in references to the college of glamour, fairies from ardenweald, intrigues from revendreth, maybe a reference to Aszhara's peculiar brand of performance cfntruc ritualistic spellcrafting that she used to free N'zoth (seriously her fight is memorablemostly for her accompanying incantation which serves as effective narration of combat choreography intertwining with excellent experience based storytelling... honestly one of those moments i feel like i might've been too harsh on BfA).

Anyway where were we? Impromptu brainstorm session for potential bases for a new bard class?
You'll have to excuse my indulgence in my own randomness. Or not really, being annoyed, disappointed or eye-rollingly bemused(probably wrong meaning here but hey) is fine as well as this sort of turns into a meta thing.

I should sleep.

[MCMLXXXII]

Any race or class can be added in the future. Dracthyr and Evokers showed us that. They were never mentioned in lore before DI but can be shoehorned in into existing lore.

[Teriz]

Any race or class can be added in the future. Dracthyr and Evokers showed us that. They were never mentioned in lore before DI but can be shoehorned in into existing lore.

Dracthyr are merely the playable form of WoW’s dragon characters. Evoker is the name given to dragon power set. In short, you get race/class called Dracthyr Evoker because you can’t have a race/class called Dragon Dragon.

The idea that they came from nowhere is absurd, since they’re steeped in draconic lore.

[MCMLXXXII]

Not gonna drag this down further, so this will be my last reply, but they did pull it out of thin air and then justified it with existing lore. Not saying there's anything wrong with it because it opens up a lot more possibilities.

[Nightshade711]

Any race or class can be added in the future. Dracthyr and Evokers showed us that. They were never mentioned in lore before DI but can be shoehorned in into existing lore.

Very true. The fact that there weren’t even any classes from WC3 that Evokers could’ve been based on is interesting for the future.

I am curious as to what the next class will be, but we’d probably have to wait another 4-5 years to find out unless Blizz somewhat breaks their pattern.

Though I wouldn’t be surprised if they make something like “class skins” instead because of Ion’s comment on cosmetics.
But who knows how that would even work in practice.

[MCMLXXXII]

Very true. The fact that there weren’t even any classes from WC3 that Evokers could’ve been based on is interesting for the future.

I am curious as to what the next class will be, but we’d probably have to wait another 4-5 years to find out unless Blizz somewhat breaks their pattern.

Though I wouldn’t be surprised if they make something like “class skins” instead because of Ion’s comment on cosmetics.

My guess is no new class next expansion but a reshuffle where certain existing specs will be turned into support.

[Teriz]

Not gonna drag this down further, so this will be my last reply, but they did pull it out of thin air and then justified it with existing lore. Not saying there's anything wrong with it because it opens up a lot more possibilities.

You have it backwards. The goal was to make the dragon characters of WoW playable (Alexstraza, Kalecgos, Wrathion, etc.). Since you can’t play as a massive four legged dragon, they created bipedal, player-sized dragons, and created lore around those new models. Beyond size and number of legs they walk on, there’s little different between a dracthyr and a dragon. Evokers even have the abilities of some of Warcrafts dragon characters.

In short, you don’t get to the Dracthyr without decades worth of dragon lore to base them upon.

Very true. The fact that there weren’t even any classes from WC3 that Evokers could’ve been based on is interesting for the future.

Not really, they just used HotS instead. Evokers have several abilities from Alexstraza, Chromie, and Deathwing HotS.

[Revamp Man]

so after checking out the dungeon journal we dont kill iridikron and the dragons that get revived in the blight of galakrond fight look like the other 3 incarnates
the final boss is also that infinite dragon from uldaman so its definitely that relic

im wondering if iridikron is just trying to revive and empower his fellow incarnates

[huth]

A character sort of needs to have lore before they build an expansion around them. I can't think of any expansion based on a character(s) that have no lore.

Zovaal says hi.

[Therougetitan]

Zovaal says hi.

His plans have been in motion since W3

[Teriz]

Zovaal says hi.

Shadowlands (and BFA) revolved around Sylvanas, not the Jailer. Zovaal was just an ass-pull used to justify her actions so that we couldn’t kill her. That said, he was supposedly pulling strings since WotLK. So even he really didn’t come from nowhere.

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His plans have been in motion since W3

Did they pull it back all the way to WC3? That’s some Fast and Furious level retconning right there.

Hopefully in future expansions, Blizzard doesn’t produce an antagonist like that again. The Incarnates in Dragonflight are a pretty good sign that they’ve learned their lesson.

[Kiivar86]

My guess is no new class next expansion but a reshuffle where certain existing specs will be turned into support.

Hm, I hope not. I hate the idea of specs changing so drastically. It has happened a few times admittedly (Survival hunters, Blood DKs changing to tank) but it just seems sucky to suddenly have your favored spec change so. Back with the leaks and teases for the Evoker for example, I was really concerned that Arcane was going to be really changed since some of the guesses and rumors indicated that Evokers were going to take a bunch of Arcane Mage themes and abilities (in the end, was just the name, thankfully).

If you're going to alter a spec drastically enough to change its role you might as well just create a new one, I feel.

[Berkilak]

Please, can't a moderator ban Teriz permanently? Varodoc was the first step, Teriz is the second step for a better world. I'm even willing to convert and worship any old god if need be.

I mean… he’s entirely right, though, in this case. We were told as much during the Dragonflight announcement.

[Revamp Man]

I don't care whether he's right or not, he derails the thread.

As long as people respond it will continue

On topic to the thread:
They are reworking mage with 10.1.5 I'm wondering if by the end of the expansion we will see major changes to many of the classes that are still similar to the BfA designs.

I'm hoping anyways because WW has had the same playstyle since then

[Nymrohd]

so after checking out the dungeon journal we dont kill iridikron and the dragons that get revived in the blight of galakrond fight look like the other 3 incarnates
the final boss is also that infinite dragon from uldaman so its definitely that relic

im wondering if iridikron is just trying to revive and empower his fellow incarnates

Then why do they all have completely different names from the incarnates? Plus the journal says these drakes just got reanimated by Galakrond's Blight

But yeah I don't think Iridikron gets killed, we can barely even touch him during the fight after all.

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Btw checking things on the PTR and I am just so very tired of watching my character be used yet again to screw things up just so I can even get a chance to see the story. Do the devs have a shame fetish?

Also why would Morchie ride on an infinite dragon? She IS an infinite dragon. If you are going to give away that she is Infinite, it is far more dramatic for her to transform than to just show up with one. And they don't even give the poor drake a name before we kill them.

[Super Dickmann]

Also why would Morchie ride on an infinite dragon? She IS an infinite dragon. If you are going to give away that she is Infinite, it is far more dramatic for her to transform than to just show up with one. And they don't even give the poor drake a name before we kill them.

To be fair, if I could have an intern piggyback me to the fields of battle that would be a way to assert my dominance to the 5 people I mean to fight in mortal combat.