The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Alanar]

He probably has a poster of Metzen above hes bed. Gotta be.

[Ersula]

Enough with the new asspulled islands that were conveniently hidden behind a """"magical mist""" until last year. There is a breaking point, and frankly it was already reached with MoP.

I think you're conflating Avaloren & Khaz Algar. Khaz Algar wasn't hidden. We were hypothesizing about how they were connected before the expansion was revealed but from what we know now, Avaloren is still hidden away by the Titans & Khaz Algar never was. It's just south of Silithus & west of Pandaria. As far as we know its a known area to the people of Azeroth, like Kazan & that Pirate country. Plus the existence of TWW's landmass is consistent with Metzen's version of Azeroth with this being the landmass that was originally called Ulduar (before the other Titan facilities were conceived)

[Lady Atia]

I think you're conflating Avaloren & Khaz Algar. Khaz Algar wasn't hidden. We were hypothesizing about how they were connected before the expansion was revealed but from what we know now, Avaloren is still hidden away by the Titans & Khaz Algar never was. It's just south of Silithus & west of Pandaria. As far as we know its a known area to the people of Azeroth, like Kazan & that Pirate country. Plus the existence of TWW's landmass is consistent with Metzen's version of Azeroth with this being the landmass that was originally called Ulduar (before the other Titan facilities were conceived)

But the Isle of Dorn is exactly that, a small island - not a huge continent like the original Ulduar.

[Varodoc]

I think you're conflating Avaloren & Khaz Algar. Khaz Algar wasn't hidden. We were hypothesizing about how they were connected before the expansion was revealed but from what we know now, Avaloren is still hidden away by the Titans & Khaz Algar never was. It's just south of Silithus & west of Pandaria. As far as we know its a known area to the people of Azeroth, like Kazan & that Pirate country. Plus the existence of TWW's landmass is consistent with Metzen's version of Azeroth with this being the landmass that was originally called Ulduar (before the other Titan facilities were conceived)

I think I'm obviously talking about the Dragon Isles, but Avaloren and Khaz Algar were also asspulled in 2022 in one codex of one dungeon.

Also, you can't possibly believe that Khaz Algar was already conceived by Metzen in 1999, that bar is so low even for you.

I will blow your mind: the "Ulduar" on that map got incorporated into Kalimdor and became Ahn'Qiraj and Uldum.

[Enrif]

But the Isle of Dorn is exactly that, a small island - not a huge continent like the original Ulduar.

The broken isles used to be just the tomb of sargeras with a bit around it. Things change.

[Lady Atia]

The broken isles used to be just the tomb of sargeras with a bit around it. Things change.

Sure, but there is a difference between increasing something or trying to tell me that the biggest continent got changed into an island lol. The original "Ulduar" was merged with Kalimdor. It would make more sense to say that the original place of Nazjatar got turned into Khaz Algar since it looks like a fissure on that map. But in the end, it doesn't matter since they will have to add new stuff to the map over time, but atleast now we know they are also willing to straight up revamp stuff instead of doing the "asspull landmass" every expansion.

[Ersula]

But the Isle of Dorn is exactly that, a small island - not a huge continent like the original Ulduar.

Irrelevant. The difference is being a huge continent above or below water. It's still the same size as any new expansion area.

Sure, but there is a difference between increasing something or trying to tell me that the biggest continent got changed into an island lol. The original "Ulduar" was merged with Kalimdor. It would make more sense to say that the original place of Nazjatar got turned into Khaz Algar since it looks like a fissure on that map. But in the end, it doesn't matter since they will have to add new stuff to the map over time, but atleast now we know they are also willing to straight up revamp stuff instead of doing the "asspull landmass" every expansion.

Something you can't possibly assume. Based on this concept it's simply a new area they haven't developed yet that has a mysterious connection to the Titans, which is what Khaz Algar is (thought in your defense in the most basic sense that is what every new continent has had.) Khaz Algar isn't inconsistent with the way Metzen created new WoW locations so somehow blaming Denuser for it is ridiculous.

[Varodoc]

The broken isles used to be just the tomb of sargeras with a bit around it. Things change.

And they changed for the worse, in that case.

Legion only gets carried and nostalgia for 3 reasons:

- Main storyline with iconic heroes and villains of the franchise;

- Class questlines;

- Suramar.

The Broken Isles in Legion are stupid as shit, a terrible retcon (they literally retconned what Gul'dan raised, originally he raised the ENTIRE landmass, then they retconned it to just the Broken Shore), and they retroactively make everyone from WC2 and WC3 dumb for never investigating the giant arcane bubble that was right there.

This is why Midnight/TLT and my concepts are superior. You won't have to retcon or "recontextualize" (aka Retcon) a single thing. Everything is already there and waiting to be reused.

[Ersula]

Things do change, yes. But this isn't the old lore, and Khaz'algar is already being incorporated in game, whereas the Broken Isles were only showcased in WC3 and had to be retconned quite a bit before being incorporated into WoW.

So do you feel that's a good thing or a bad thing. The point was Varodoc was trying to say Khaz Algar was Danusers asspull even though we already knew Metzen was working at Blizzard for almost a full year before it was formally announced he was in charge of the franchise. Danuser is long gone. You're going to need a new boogeyman to blame all your problems with wow on.

[Reive]

Danuser was just a scapegoat. Truth is, the whole narrative team is dogshit.

[Ersula]

And they changed for the worse, in that case.

Legion only gets carried and nostalgia for 3 reasons:

- Main storyline with iconic heroes and villains of the franchise;

- Class questlines;

- Suramar.

The Broken Isles in Legion are stupid as shit, a terrible retcon (they literally retconned what Gul'dan raised, originally he raised the ENTIRE landmass, then they retconned it to just the Broken Shore), and they retroactively make everyone from WC2 and WC3 dumb for never investigating the giant arcane bubble that was right there.

What are you trying to do? Legion zones are up there with wrath zones as most beloved expansion zones in the game. There is a nearly 100% chance Midnight will include entirely new, created wholesale, island masses north of Silvermoon, because current Quelthalas is tiny. Just like they did when designing the Broken Isles around the Temple of Elune.

[Varodoc]

So do you feel that's a good thing or a bad thing. The point was Varodoc was trying to say Khaz Algar was Danusers asspull even though we already knew Metzen was working at Blizzard for almost a full year before it was formally announced he was in charge of the franchise. Danuser is long gone. You're going to need a new boogeyman to blame all your problems with wow on.

He returned at Blizzard on December 2022, many months after the Uldaman codex name-dropping Khaz Algar was created by Danuser and his team.

As usual, you are objectively wrong.

Also, isn't the boogeyman of you people still Afrasiabi?

How did Dragonflight being Danuser's baby (without the evil Afrasiabi boogey influence) pan out?

What are you trying to do? Legion zones are up there with wrath zones as most beloved expansion zones in the game. There is a nearly 100% chance Midnight will include entirely new, created wholesale, island masses north of Silvermoon, because current Quelthalas is tiny. Just like they did when designing the Broken Isles around the Temple of Elune.

They have already confirmed that they will enlarge the currently-existing zones.

Try to keep up.

[Enrif]

Legion only gets carried and nostalgia for 3 reasons:

- Suramar.

Might be the minority here. but i think Suramar is extremely overrated and wasn't actually any good, it actually hurt roleplay far more, than it provided as a gameplay experience.

[Ersula]

He returned at Blizzard on December 2022, many months after the Uldaman codex name-dropping Khaz Algar was created by Danuser and his team.

As usual, you are objectively wrong.

Also, isn't the boogeyman of you people still Afrasiabi?

How did Dragonflight being Danuser's baby (without the evil Afrasiabi boogey influence) pan out?



They have already confirmed that they will enlarge the currently-existing zones.

Try to keep up.

The namedrop isn't metzens but you weren't criticizing the name. Your argument so far has been all geographical lore from warcraft 3 to present is bad & making the existing silvermoon huge is somehow better than normal worldbuilding (which is not what they said. When they said expanding on existing zones they didn't mean literally making them bigger. "Expanding on suramar" is what they did when they created the Broken Isles.)

[Varodoc]

Your argument so far has been all geographical lore from warcraft 3 to present is bad

Yeah you're hearing voices.

& making the existing silvermoon huge is somehow better than normal worldbuilding

Pray Tell, what "normal world-builing" is present in DF? Ripping-off totally-not-centaurs from Kalimdor and totally-not-tuskarr from Wrath? Dragon daycares? Totally-not-Deathwing as the main villain? HD Storm Peaks aka Valdraken?

When they said expanding on existing zones they didn't mean literally making them bigger.

That's literally what they said.

"We’re giving our world builders some free rein to expand. Those areas may be geographically larger than they were. That’ll give them more opportunities to introduce some of the smaller points of interest where you’ll have a culture or a local tribe and give them the ability to have storylines that center on that. We don’t want people to feel like, oh, wait a minute, it’s that same place I know. It’s gonna feel like the same place; it’s just that it is literally going to be a little bit larger than what you’ve experienced. Flight being much more accessible, we need to have a larger landmass for people to be able to explore.”

https://gamerant.com/world-of-warcra...he-last-titan/

As usual, only fake news from you.

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What is your argument here? That Khaz'algar is bad or something?

You said it, not Me.

Your preconceived opinion of Khaz Algar is duly noted.

Imma just say this...

If Midnight doesn't end with us going to the ruins of K'aresh, and us fighting either a fully Void infused Azshara, or Dimensius at Full Power...I'll be slightly disappointed. Midnight seems like the perfect time to do that.

Only helps Midnight seems VERY similar to Legion, but for the Void instead.

Azshara will be the final boss of Patch 12.1, aka Sunwell Plateau.

Patch 12.2 will be K'aresh with Dimensius the All-Devouring as the final boss.

Azshara is a pawn, a tool of greater powers, unworthy of being the final boss of anything. Dimensius is signing her pay-check.

[Enrif]

Azshara will be the final boss of Patch 12.1, aka Sunwell Plateau.

Azshara again as a patch boss that leads to fighting the void? Would be a very close repeat of BfA with Nazjatar and then N'zoth.

I think she will tie in more with the elven unification story, but will not appear as a boss.

[Cheezits]

I hope they swap it up and have Azshara beat the Void Lords/Xal for power. Even if she extends to the next saga, she is pretty much the real final boss of Warcraft and responsible for the suffering of so many races and the planet itself.

Denathrius too, but he's not as important.

Considering they implied we lose in Midnight, maybe we beat Dimensius/lock him away but lose to Azshara?

[allegrian]

I hope they swap it up and have Azshara beat the Void Lords/Xal for power. Even if she extends to the next saga, she is pretty much the real final boss of Warcraft and responsible for the suffering of so many races and the planet itself.

Denathrius too, but he's not as important.

Considering they implied we lose in Midnight, maybe we beat Dimensius/lock him away but lose to Azshara?

Nah, the final boss is still Sargeras, who will probably be freed in TLT.

[Varodoc]

I'm asking what your point was. There is no preconceived opinion. Would respect it if you actually answered the question I asked...

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Nice theory on Midnight tho. I kinda think similar, but I do wonder if they'll have us defeat a Void Lord THIS early in the conflict. Would make sense tho, especially if we're to assume Iridikron's gonna have Titan+ levels of power in TLT, which he likely will.

Power escalation has already reached its peak with Argus the Unmaker. A fully-formed Void Lord is only equal if not even weaker than a World-Soul. Chronicles said that the Void Lords are envious of the Titans' power. Who is stronger or weaker is irrelevant, they are clearly all in the same tier of "Crazy cosmic shit" that we have already seen in Legion. It wouldn't be anything crazy after Legion.

The hard part will be writing Dimensius the All-Devouring as a villain that people can care about and not just a purple voidwalker that spouts the usual one-liners.

For that they will first have to scratch his TBC design, made when he literally was just some random strong voidwalker, and give him a unique design and identity. Something like this:

Azshara again as a patch boss that leads to fighting the void? Would be a very close repeat of BfA with Nazjatar and then N'zoth.

I think she will tie in more with the elven unification story, but will not appear as a boss.

She is an infamous villain that players want to see more of, she has a unique design, and an interesting power-set (water-based spells mixed with Void), and is one of the main agents of the Void left after Cataclysm and BfA. Furthermore, she is the original cause of the Elven peoples' fragmentation, in an expansion that is all about reunifying the Elven peoples.

Furthermore, Blizzard does not shy away from reusing previous expansion's raid bosses, such as Kil'jaeden (TBC and Legion); Archimonde (TBC and WoD); Onyxia and Nefarian (Classic and Cataclysm); Kel'Thuzad (Classic/Wrath and Shadowlands); Ragnaros (Classic and Cataclysm).

Why would she NOT be a boss in Midnight?

[Cheezits]

Nah, the final boss is still Sargeras, who will probably be freed in TLT.

Sargeras at least has noble (kind of) goals, Azshara is just selfish and evil. Even if it comes back to Sargeras, Azshara fits more as the ultimate villain of the setting.