1. #62621
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Explain how to do that in service with joined subscription. xD
    That's not My problem.

    I'm simply saying it would be interesting to also get the version of that graph without Classic.

    I don't need to explain anything to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Also, crazy to pin all the blame on Shadowlands when BFA legit took what Legion started and made it 90 times worse.
    BfA also had 3 patches compared to Shadowlands' 2. It had 5 raids as opposed to Shadowlands' 3. It added 10 new races. It had 6 zones at Launch instead of just 5, and actual, Suramar-sized capital cities instead of pitiful Oribos.

  2. #62622
    Over 9000! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Welp, I can confidently say that that BfA was my fav expansion since Legion, up until DF arrived. Best zones, best classic fantasy feel, best dungeons and raids. I got over the story years ago and borrowed powers and it's grind faded away from my memories.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  3. #62623
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    No, we can pretty clearly determine whether there would be a surge or not, because we can see what a surge looks like via the comparison we have to Classic. By the time of TBC, Classic has flatlined as an additional product, with its core additional playerbase locked in. If it was buoying the playerbase with an additional subscription rate, it would be visible in the graph, but it doesn't, because by that point it's not a gaming event like the Classic release mid-BFA rightly was, but is just another separate product chugging along with its own consistent playerbase.
    That conclusion is also helped by Season of Discovery clearly boosting subs a lot itself. It seems Classic players want Classic, as in vanilla, even if it comes with some additional spice. Even the lauded Wrath itself didn't boost subs as significantly.

    That said, the graph doesn't contain enough data for any sort of in-depth analysis, and mostly shows what Blizzard wanted it to show. Its primary aim is clearly to reassure whomever the target audience was (not forum grognards for sure) that things are going well.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

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  4. #62624
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    That's not My problem.

    I'm simply saying it would be interesting to also get the version of that graph without Classic.

    I don't need to explain anything to you.
    "They should do that <virtually impossible thing>"

    "How can they do that"

    "NOT MY PROBLEM I DON"T NEED TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING TO YOU"

    Yeah, thx for your contribution to the thread xD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    That said, the graph doesn't contain enough data for any sort of in-depth analysis, and mostly shows what Blizzard wanted it to show. Its primary aim is clearly to reassure whomever the target audience was (not forum grognards for sure) that things are going well.
    Of course we are not target, but over years community perception about subs really drifted away from reality.

    I get why Blizzard doesn't show subs every quarter (look at Legion numbers, people would call it failure if we would witness sub loss very similar to WoD), but imo every few years there should be detailed report that show all ups and downs.
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2024-03-23 at 09:14 PM.

  5. #62625
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    "They should do that <virtually impossible thing>"

    "How can they do that"

    "NOT MY PROBLEM I DON"T NEED TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING TO YOU"

    Yeah, thx for your contribution to the thread xD.
    How is you harassing and attacking Me out of nowhere for sharing My opinion "contributing"?

  6. #62626
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Welp, I can confidently say that that BfA was my fav expansion since Legion, up until DF arrived. Best zones, best classic fantasy feel, best dungeons and raids. I got over the story years ago and borrowed powers and it's grind faded away from my memories.
    I didn't hate BfA either. Corruption was fucking sick. But its third season of M+ can fuck right off the tallest building on earth.

  7. #62627
    Pandaren Monk Skildar's Avatar
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    Shadowlands will for sure remain a big thorn as they're are now trying to pull a World Soul Saga when the Jailer was already attempting to drain the World Soul of Azeroth...

  8. #62628
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    How is you harassing and attacking Me out of nowhere for sharing My opinion "contributing"?
    You know this is discussion forum, right? Everything you, me or whoever write can be criticized or challenged.

  9. #62629
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    Shadowlands will for sure remain a big thorn as they're are now trying to pull a World Soul Saga when the Jailer was already attempting to drain the World Soul of Azeroth...
    If anything they will tie that in neatly to whatever the Titans are going to do with Ulduar in The Last Titan. They may use that "pipeline" the Jailer made to further morph Azeroth's soul, or we will be tasked with going underneath ICC and plugging up the hole. Also the very few hints about the Lifelands in Dragonflight show they aren't completely abandoning some of the bigger lore hooks in Shadowlands.

    Also they WILL address the similarities between the First Ones and the Titans, even if it's not a big focus.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2024-03-23 at 09:23 PM.

  10. #62630
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post

    Lmaooo Shadowlands' final sub count was higher than BFA's. That's crazy.
    Well Wrath classic launching at the very end of SL certainly helped.

  11. #62631
    The Insane Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Keep in mind Shadowlands also kind of profited from the pandemic.

  12. #62632
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Keep in mind Shadowlands also kind of profited from the pandemic.
    Of course, there are many variables for each launch. Same as scandal around Blizzard in mid 2021 for sure hurt numbers, yet had nothing to do with SL.

    I think problem here is people adding their personal feeling about each expansion to discussion about numbers, while it's even perfectly plausible to shit patch being more popular than good one.

  13. #62633
    The Insane Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Of course, there are many variables for each launch. Same as scandal around Blizzard in mid 2021 for sure hurt numbers, yet had nothing to do with SL.

    I think problem here is people adding their personal feeling about each expansion to discussion about numbers, while it's even perfectly plausible to shit patch being more popular than good one.
    Yup, pretty much. Like, the boost from Classic would baseline elevate all subs from that point on by some amount; so the fact that BfA's lowest which is before Classic is lower than SL's doesn't mean much. Or that that DF did NOT have China subs and TWW will. There is just so many effects and especially the addition of Classic complicates everything. But what is important is that the subs never seem to dip much below WoD's lowest point at 5 mil and DF is probably much higher than that.

    I'd say the one thing the graph does is dispel any doom and gloom. The game remains extremely active so Blizzard is likely planning a third decade for it. Anyone who starts with WoW is dying can just look at the numbers.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2024-03-23 at 10:18 PM.

  14. #62634
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Welp, I can confidently say that that BfA was my fav expansion since Legion, up until DF arrived. Best zones, best classic fantasy feel, best dungeons and raids. I got over the story years ago and borrowed powers and it's grind faded away from my memories.
    All those reasons are probably why I hate it so much actually. Because it had all those good parts, and still managed to squander it so badly on a terrible plot.
    I love me a good steak and fries with a creme brulee for dessert. I wouldnt like it if someone served me experimental beef cubes in vanilla custard.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Is that graph confirmed legitimate? Because it seems wildly unprofessional given the lack of actual numbers to compare the graph to. It seems like a reasonable expression of the reality of subscription numbers, but I don't want to just blindly trust something so easily faked.
    Last edited by Sondrelk; 2024-03-23 at 10:47 PM.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  15. #62635
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    All those reasons are probably why I hate it so much actually. Because it had all those good parts, and still managed to squander it so badly on a terrible plot.
    I love me a good steak and fries with a creme brulee for dessert. I wouldnt like it if someone served me experimental beef cubes in vanilla custard.
    Not just terrible plot, but gameplay as well... Keep in mind that Legion's biggest selling point was the fact that you could make a Demon Hunter which was something that a lot of people (mostly blood elf players) have hoped for ever since they saw them back in TBC and heard rumors of them being a potential playable class.

    Then BFA comes around and nerfs Demon Hunters so badly that they became unplayable for the longest time, even worse the Shadow Priest's mess when they lost their Artifact Weapons. All the hardwork people put into Legion was diminished the moment you lost your artifact weapon and a lot of the bells and whistles that made the classes strong, and some specs still haven't recovered from it and need to go through extensive reworks just to be "playable" let alone be optimal.

  16. #62636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Not just terrible plot, but gameplay as well... Keep in mind that Legion's biggest selling point was the fact that you could make a Demon Hunter which was something that a lot of people (mostly blood elf players) have hoped for ever since they saw them back in TBC and heard rumors of them being a potential playable class.

    Then BFA comes around and nerfs Demon Hunters so badly that they became unplayable for the longest time, even worse the Shadow Priest's mess when they lost their Artifact Weapons. All the hardwork people put into Legion was diminished the moment you lost your artifact weapon and a lot of the bells and whistles that made the classes strong, and some specs still haven't recovered from it and need to go through extensive reworks just to be "playable" let alone be optimal.
    The systems of Warcraft never failed as hard as BfA launch. The brutal loss of power and utility from the artifacts and the extremely poor and in some cases plain stupid implementation of Azerite gear together with Blizzard stonewalling theorycrafters who rang every bell throughout the beta just messed everything up.

  17. #62637
    That graph doesn't make much sense to me. Not in the sense that BFA has a low point compared to Shadowlands, but that Shadowlands has a higher launch than Legion and BFA... almost on par with WoW Classic's launch. In a sequel expansion that came after it made Sylvanas super unpopular, shits on the story and gameplay.

    It could just be pandemic, but I don't recall a lot of people being super hyped about Shadowlands when it launched. Especially with people warning Blizzard that covenants weren't ready and that they still needed to fine tune a lot of things wrong with them.

  18. #62638
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    All those reasons are probably why I hate it so much actually. Because it had all those good parts, and still managed to squander it so badly on a terrible plot.
    I love me a good steak and fries with a creme brulee for dessert. I wouldnt like it if someone served me experimental beef cubes in vanilla custard.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Is that graph confirmed legitimate? Because it seems wildly unprofessional given the lack of actual numbers to compare the graph to. It seems like a reasonable expression of the reality of subscription numbers, but I don't want to just blindly trust something so easily faked.
    Yeah, actually, the GDC article was already up about 40 hours ago in Korea, and that graph is exactly the same as the one in the article. https://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news...94262&site=wow

  19. #62639
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The systems of Warcraft never failed as hard as BfA launch. The brutal loss of power and utility from the artifacts and the extremely poor and in some cases plain stupid implementation of Azerite gear together with Blizzard stonewalling theorycrafters who rang every bell throughout the beta just messed everything up.
    I don't know if I misremembered it, but I think at the time Azerite armor was initially supposed to be on every armor slot, not just head, shoulder, and chest... but someone must've thought it would made the game too complex to work with especially given the reaction everyone had at Blizzcon when they tried to explain how Azerite Armor worked.

    So it probably would've had a lot more going into it.. that's just my theory about it, but we'll never know.

  20. #62640
    https://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news...94262&site=wow

    gdc presentation for those interested. it's in korean so you probably have to use google translate

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