The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

if the goats are right and the orcs are destroying the planet which they kinda have a track record of doing unlike the light then ya destroying there culture would be the solution given what it’s lead to in both the main universe and AU.

Isn’t that a biased view on your part? Yeah, the Orcs have a spotty track record, but you have an alien force saying they know what’s better for the planet than the natives. That isn’t problematic to you?

the campion would still be a hero just one from the perspective of the horde and given how consistently awful some of the horde has been they have been since classic that just makes there heroly duty’s includes being unethical

Yeah, and again it’s bad writing, because the Horde isn’t supposed to be “worse” than the alliance. It’s also bad writing because despite doing those atrocities, the writers just blamed it all on the Jailer and gave Sylvanas a retribution arc.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I mean, AU goats might think that orcs are destroying the planet only because they don't want to convert to light, i woldn't want that either.

I'd prefer both races not be condemned to doing bad. (I.E. Yrel and her zealots if they are going to happen at least make them a minority opinion but a loud one).

[Abraxan]

"Down to earth expansion" means Void vs Light now? Let's have a relaxed expansion for a bit, instead of yet another world ending situation. You can only do it so many times in a row before it loses any meaning.

Definitely agree going right from DF to light vs void seems sudden. I wouldn't be surprised if they did another expansion first.

I think Ion had a quote about how they'll still have cosmic expansions. I think those will be set primarily on azeroth after SL's reception. I would be surprised if they had an entire expansion set on another world/plane. But I could see light vs void set on azeroth, with patch content on k'aresh/wherever. Similar to the Legion model.

But basically yeah I do think they could make a "grounded" version of a light vs void expansion.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The loyalist choice was an experiment because players had complained about always being shoehorned into the "good hero" role.
And the shovel quest was rather the exception that proves the rule, one of the literally only handful of quests where you can be unquestionably evil. Other than that, the game assumes you're a well-meaning helping hero, even if you're a Warlock, Death Knight or Demon Hunter.

I mean you experiment on POW’s and slay sleeping Druids just because you can In classic, join up with the blood elfs who draining living beings for mana in tbc, do more POW experimenting in wrath, ect .

The loyalist route might have an experiment but the horde have always been in line with evil stuff like the shovel quest.

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Isn’t that a biased view on your part? Yeah, the Orcs have a spotty track record, but you have an alien force saying they know what’s better for the planet than the natives. That isn’t problematic to you?

if the alien force turns out to be right then no not problematic at all.

Like the orcs between the two verses are on what 6 genocides or attempted genocides? With a track record that spotty there’s nothing left but threads at this point so correcting them would be long over due.

Yeah, and again it’s bad writing, because the Horde isn’t supposed to be “worse” than the alliance. It’s also bad writing because despite doing those atrocities, the writers just blamed it all on the Jailer and gave Sylvanas a retribution arc.

ok ya it’s un arguably bad writing given that they just said it was sylvanas fault and we are now all buddy buddy when there hordes track record should make that impossible.

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It's still crazy that everyone doesn't care about the main subject of this thread.

I had forgotten that this was a thread about Yrel and her boobs.

At this point, you should create a topic instead of derailing this one.

Speculating about Yrel and the AU in a future expan is perfectly on topic even if you don’t like said speculation.

Like do you even post any thing that’s not trying to derail the thread by complaining?

[CopyX1982]

What I wouldn't do for a credible leak right now. I'm loving DF, & I really wanna know what's next for WoWs' 20th anniversary...

[Ielenia]

IMO none of the examples given are comparable to what would be to change a current spec to a support one.

As I already stated, Survival changed from ranged DPS to melee DPS. So it stayed as a DPS spec. It is unlikely for me that Blizzard would change existing specs to support ones for the following reasons:

- There are people that enjoy current specs (Survival, Discipline, Enhancement...). Changing a spec to support would inevitably change how that spec is played. Some might enjoy it, but certainly a lot of players would miss how that spec used to be, and they would not be able to play the spec that they miss again. Backlash would come, and it is an absolutely unnecessary backlash, as Blizzard can create new specs.

- There are people that enjoy their DPS role. I say DPS, because if Augmentation Evoker is how a support role would work in WoW, it seems that DPS specs would be the support specs. Not healers, not tanks, but DPS. They might make a healer support in the future, but for now we just have Augmentation. If a DPS spec is changed to Support, even if we do not take into account my first point, that spec would lose between 20-40% of its DPS damage. I think that Augmentation Evoker does around 30% less damage than Devastation, so I guess that they are going with that direction in mind. There would be, again, inevitably, players that would feel veeeery bad about this. So again, Blizzard would be creating unnecessary backlash.

- What would be more attractive for us, as players? Look at all the hype that Augmentation Evoker has created. A new spec would always be a win-win situation for Blizzard. Many would want to try it out. But if you change a current spec to another role, for sure part of the playerbase is going to complain about it. It seems that Blizzard is getting smarter these days (actually, the WoW team, not Blizzard), so I do not think that they would make that mistake.

That is literally the case of the death knight as I explained: Frost and Unholy were no longer tank specs, changing their role completely and Blood was no longer a DPS spec, changing its role completely.

[Makabreska]

It's still crazy that everyone doesn't care about the main subject of this thread.

I had forgotten that this was a thread about Yrel and her boobs.

At this point, you should create a topic instead of derailing this one.

I don't think anyone here wants/needs your constant thread policing. See off-topic? Report. It didn't do shit? Tough titties, maybe it is you who is wrong.

[Teriz]

if the alien force turns out to be right then no not problematic at all.

That's a big "if" though. Also this shows that Yrel makes a compelling villain, because we'd be more inclined to take her side over the Mag'har who were traumatized by her campaign on Draenor. Thrall will probably side with the Mag'har and the Ogres, while the Alliance higher ups like Turalyon, Khadgar, and Velen might side with Yrel. However some elements of the alliance like Alleria might be more inclined to believe the Arrakoa.

ok ya it’s un arguably bad writing given that they just said it was sylvanas fault and we are now all buddy buddy when there hordes track record should make that impossible.

Well it's like she's just forgiven for everything she did because supposedly the Jailer was pulling her strings all along. It 's just rather lame. Hopefully if Yrel is next, she gets killed at the end for doing planetary cultural genocide.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

That's a big "if" though.

is it though? The orcs do this stuff all the time and the maghar have embraced mass industrialization which we already know ruins the world around it like the goblins and gnomes do.

Like assuming they don’t pull a secret third cause every thing in points to it being the orcs over the goats given that the light has never been shown to have negative effects on any one or anything that wasn’t a demon or undead.

Also this shows that Yrel makes a compelling villain, because we'd be more inclined to take her side over the Mag'har who were traumatized by her campaign on Draenor. Thrall will probably side with the Mag'har and the Ogres, while the Alliance higher ups like Turalyon, Khadgar, and Velen might side with Yrel. However some elements of the alliance like Alleria might be more inclined to believe the Arrakoa.

at this point there really isn’t any way to justify any of the alliance siding with Yrel if they come to make war after years of peace even if that peace is none sense, Turalyon has already chosen his wife over following orders, Velan became disillusioned on argus by listening to Illidan, Khadgar would rather watch the horde burn the world then grow a pair.

Well it's like she's just forgiven for everything she did because supposedly the Jailer was pulling her strings all along. It 's just rather lame. Hopefully if Yrel is next, she gets killed at the end for doing planetary cultural genocide.

no shot they would kill Yrel after letting sylvnas slide, in all likely hood Xera would just assume direct control over her after she has a faith shaken and then we’d free her and kill Xera.

[Ielenia]

Which is irrelevant. Blizzard has made it clear that Yrel's force is a threat. They made that clear by having an entire race flee their home world to escape that threat.

No, they did not. Again, we have one side of the tale.

The same could have been said of Night Elves or Worgen before they were put into the Alliance.

How are those two even remotely comparable? Worgens are human, and used to be Stormwind's allies before the nation isolated itself, and the night elves had an intense dislike of the orcs who killed Cenarius, a dislike shared by the humans who had their lands ravaged by the same orcs.

And they're not reaching into WoD just to pull out those races. They're reaching into WoD to pull a popular character as an expansion antagonist.

Yrel is so highly unlikely to be an expansion antagonist it's safe to say she's not going to be. Again, it makes absolutely no sense due to her story in Warlords of Draenor.

You can't see a scenario where someone becomes so fearful of the Void that they believe that the light is the only salvation and everything else needs to be eradicated so that the light dominates everything else? There's real life examples of formerly good people doing exactly what Yrel would be doing via their insane religions convictions. People do evil stuff in the name of religion constantly and throughout history.

This isn't "real life". This is a fictional story being told, and by being a story it needs a logical structure, and making a character that we spent an entire expansion building up to be a good, caring leader-- again, that Velen would be proud of-- and making them an expansion's BBEG goes against said logical structure.

And the Horde champion experienced Yrel going psycho town themselves. That's Blizzard's way of telling you that yes, that plucky Draenei you knew back in WoD is crazy now.

Except: no. No, they did not. You're ignoring that we entered a devastated Gorgrond area, what was once a lush forest became desolate, and the draenei army's leader points out how the orcs brought ruin to the land. What you're doing here is akin to saying that the Alliance is evil because they invaded Dazar'alor without knowing the context and how the Horde invaded Stormsong Valley first and gleefully tortured and killed innocent civilians in Brennadam.

They would be a threat if they sought to force others into their religion by the sword. That is what Yrel is doing.

That is what the Mag'har claim Yrel is doing. There's a huge difference.

Well again, the pressing issue is that we also saw Yrel's zealotry first hand.

Except, we haven't. Again, we have zero background context on the situation aside from one side.

[Gurahk]

is it though? The orcs do this stuff all the time and the maghar have embraced mass industrialization which we already know ruins the world around it like the goblins and gnomes do.

Like assuming they don’t pull a secret third cause every thing in points to it being the orcs over the goats given that the light has never been shown to have negative effects on any one or anything that wasn’t a demon or undead.

The scorched area in revendreth says hi.

[huth]

The scorched area in revendreth says hi.

That was a retaliation strike, though. Even the Venthyr acknowledge that.

[Gurahk]

Except: no. No, they did not. You're ignoring that we entered a devastated Gorgrond area, what was once a lush forest became desolate, and the draenei army's leader points out how the orcs brought ruin to the land. What you're doing here is akin to saying that the Alliance is evil because they invaded Dazar'alor without knowing the context and how the Horde invaded Stormsong Valley first and gleefully tortured and killed innocent civilians in Brennadam.

Brennadam was a list minute change in the beta. Quillboars were supposed to be the ones to invade, however due to a feedback of "lack of faction war" in the story, they changed it hastily. There's also a problem of Blizzard changing the story depending on which faction does the quest. The war of the thorns is a famous example.
Anyways I'm not entering the Yrel discussion properly, just wanted to point this out.

[Teriz]

No, they did not. Again, we have one side of the tale.

The Burning Legion and the Old Gods have a side too. Doesn't make them any less evil.

Again, which is why Yrel having a "side" is irrelelvant to the fact that she's doing evil stuff.

Yrel is so highly unlikely to be an expansion antagonist it's safe to say she's not going to be. Again, it makes absolutely no sense due to her story in Warlords of Draenor.

It makes perfect sense given what we saw during BFA.

Except: no. No, they did not. You're ignoring that we entered a devastated Gorgrond area, what was once a lush forest became desolate, and the draenei army's leader points out how the orcs brought ruin to the land. What you're doing here is akin to saying that the Alliance is evil because they invaded Dazar'alor without knowing the context and how the Horde invaded Stormsong Valley first and gleefully tortured and killed innocent civilians in Brennadam.


That is what the Mag'har claim Yrel is doing. There's a huge difference.

You need to play the scenario again. Yrel herself rolled up in the presence of the Horde Champion (aka the player) and gave the Orcs the ultimatum to surrender to the light or be eradicated. So no, it isn't just a Mag'har claim, we witnessed it ourselves.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The scorched area in revendreth says hi.

I mean it’s the realm of death so I’d say that falls into it having negative effects on undead.

[Gurahk]

That was a retaliation strike, though. Even the Venthyr acknowledge that.

Right, but it still shows that the light can have a damaging effect on the environment. We don't know what happened to Draenor, for all we know it could've been decaying because of timey-wimey shenanigans.
(For real now I'm out, willing to discuss anything else about the future of DF!)

[Teriz]

is it though? The orcs do this stuff all the time and the maghar have embraced mass industrialization which we already know ruins the world around it like the goblins and gnomes do.

Ruins the world to the point where the entire planet would begin to die? Doubtful.

Several naaru converging on a world and pouring massive energies into it? Possibly.

Like assuming they don’t pull a secret third cause every thing in points to it being the orcs over the goats given that the light has never been shown to have negative effects on any one or anything that wasn’t a demon or undead.

at this point there really isn’t any way to justify any of the alliance siding with Yrel if they come to make war after years of peace even if that peace is none sense, Turalyon has already chosen his wife over following orders, Velan became disillusioned on argus by listening to Illidan, Khadgar would rather watch the horde burn the world then grow a pair.

I suppose we'll see in that regard.

no shot they would kill Yrel after letting sylvnas slide, in all likely hood Xera would just assume direct control over her after she has a faith shaken and then we’d free her and kill Xera.

I disagree. I think Yrel dying for her beliefs would be a fitting end to her tragic story.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Ruins the world to the point where the entire planet would begin to die? Doubtful.

we don’t actually know what the world “dying” means for all we know the orcs were mass polluting water ways like the goblins, pumping mass smog into the are killing birds and what not and clear cutting forest.

The goblins and gnomes have been able to destroy large areas and the orcs out number both of them by a huge margin.

Several naaru converging on a world and pouring massive energies into it? Possibly.

I mean it’s possible but there’s just no precedent for it any where in wow.

Like Azeroth has had Elune pumping light into it forever had the humans take up the light on mass, had the sun well relit with the light, had the goats bring a bunch of Narru and then the light forged show up, place is absolutely crawling in the light with no negative effects.

Hell even having multiple old gods corrupting the world doesn’t actually kill the planet so why would the Narru.

[The Stormbringer]

I disagree. I think Yrel dying for her beliefs would be a fitting end to her tragic story.

But... but... how am I supposed to have my space-goat waifu if they kill her off?!

[Teriz]

we don’t actually know what the world “dying” means for all we know the orcs were mass polluting water ways like the goblins, pumping mass smog into the are killing birds and what not and clear cutting forest.

The goblins and gnomes have been able to destroy large areas and the orcs out number both of them by a huge margin.

I mean it’s possible but there’s just no precedent for it any where in wow.

Like Azeroth has had Elune pumping light into it forever had the humans take up the light on mass, had the sun well relit with the light, had the goats bring a bunch of Narru and then the light forged show up, place is absolutely crawling in the light with no negative effects.

Hell even having multiple old gods corrupting the world doesn’t actually kill the planet so why would the Narru.

And it could very well be that neither side are actually killing the planet. The lore speculates that Draenor could actually be dying because of the time traveling that Garrosh did back in WoD with Kairoz.

Either way, it doesn't justify the genocide done by the Draenei on AU Draenor.