The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

I agree! With the alternate timeline patch coming, I hope this will be adressed, even if just shortly.

"Genocide", doesn't seem the right word though. Crusade followed by mass brainwashing maybe. We very well might see a Lightbound Hellscream and Lantresor.

A crusade that leads to your conversion, brainwashing, or death alongside the obliteration of your culture definitely fits the definition of genocide. The brainwashing is pretty much becoming a slave. No different than N'Zoth or Yogg'Soron wiping away your brain and forcing you to serve them.

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That is some nice head canon in this future patch/expansion speculation thread.

Know your lore.

After Archimonde's fall, the orcs and draenei worked together to drive the Burning Legion from Draenor. The two peoples then lived in peace alongside each other for years. During this time, more naaru arrived on Draenor and, without demons to fight, the draenei became fixated upon the Light. At some point, Draenor began to deteriorate for unknown reasons. The Lightbound believed that the Mag'har orcs were choking the life from Draenor and dooming the land to desiccation, and blamed the Mag'har for the once-fertile land becoming lifeless dust,[12] while Grommash Hellscream believed that it was the Light that had doomed the planet. Having received visions from the Light Mother, the High Exarch knew that the Army of the Light would bring order to countless worlds in the Great Dark Beyond. But first, the Mag'har needed to be taught to trust the naaru as well, for they brought peace and order. The naaru compelled the draenei to spread their influence among the orcs.

The Lightbound sent sermons, explaining they wished for all the people of Draenor to be unified in purpose. Those resisting the Light were seen as an infection that prevented "Draenor's heart from being whole".[13] A few orcs converted to the Light willingly, but others had the Light forced upon them. Some orcs even sided with the draenei against their own kin, including Grommash's own son.[14] War followed, until the two sides found themselves in a stalemate in Gorgrond, where the Lightbound refused to attack Hellsreach Citadel.[12] Yrel confronted Grommash, referring to him as an old friend and attempting to get him to stand down. Grommash held her off while a group of Mag'har led by Overlord Geya'rah, daughter of Draka and the deceased Durotan, fled to Azeroth. The outcome of her fight with Grommash is unknown.[15]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Yrel

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yrel didn't start her crusade because Draenor was dying. She did it because the Naaru started pumping voices into her head, and told her she needed to create an army to stop the void. The goal isn't to save the world, the goal is to wipe out everything else except the light

The crusade to fight the void never got off the ground so that doesn’t really matter, only why she’s fighting the rocs and why she would be fighting on Azeroth would matter.

She’s fighting the orcs because she thinks they are destroying the planet and she wants to “heal the heart of it” and if she came to Azeroth that wouldn’t be a thing which would give her a reason to doubt and with people like Velan who have also seen visions of fighting the void without forcefully converting people and Turyalon who already knows following the Narru isn’t every thing it would be perfect priming for her to falter and then come over to our side and we even have a stand in endnboss with light forged Garrosh and Xera as a mirror to his SoO fight.

[Ielenia]

From the horse's mouth;

That is not evidence that the draenei are "forcefully converting". This is literally the orcs' last stand where they prefer to fight to the end of their lives instead of stopping what they're doing that is allegedly killing the planet.

Again, the state of the mag'har's area around them supports the draenei's claim that what they're doing is killing the planet, considering it's all barren and looks... gloomy.

We also have the Ogre quest at the beginning of the campaign. The Ogres were also hiding from the Lightbound but eventually join them because they see no other alternative.

Which doesn't mean the draenei are "forcefully converting" others. And since you spoke of the ogres, why don't we talk about the mag'har's own diplomatic skills being used on the ogres?



"Join me or die". It really sounds like the words of someone who is truly being "oppressed" and is against "forceful conversions", doesn't it?

Anyway, this is a pointless conversation because you absolutely refuse to listen to evidence that completely contradicts your point.

I will see the evidence when you actually provide some.

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Know your lore.



https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Yrel

I'm amused that your quote is full of annotations and references, and yet the part you bolded on the first paragraph has no reference, and I can't think of anywhere where that supposed part of the lore was said.

Also, the second bolded part literally is what we were talking about, about having no context. We only have the orcs' clam that some were forcefully converted.

[Luck4]

AU Draenor is just the opposite of MU, in MU Draenor the Orcs using Fel slaughtered the Draenei, and in AU Draenor is the Draenei using Light that slaughtered the Orcs.

I think it's a good approach. Yrel FTW! I can't wait to see her again!

[Raetary]

Soooo.... what are we expecting from the Blues quests this week?

[CopyX1982]

Soooo.... what are we expecting from the Blues quests this week?

that fancy armour set, similar to the obsidian one we got from the story quests in the caverns.

[Teriz]

AU Draenor is just the opposite of MU, in MU Draenor the Orcs using Fel slaughtered the Draenei, and in AU Draenor is the Draenei using Light that slaughtered the Orcs.

I think it's a good approach. Yrel FTW! I can't wait to see her again!

Yep, and instead of Draenor being destroyed by Fel, it gets destroyed by the Light.

I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s exactly the route Blizzard takes.

No point bickering over it now. We’ll see what happens soon enough.

[Nymrohd]

Soooo.... what are we expecting from the Blues quests this week?

Well I expect to see Blue dragon NPCs. So I expect Azuregos, Halegosa (last known Consort of Malygos) and Tyrigosa (Kalec's original fiance) to show up, maybe Jorad to make an appearance. He did call them all and some of them probably were further away.
Now Tyri MIGHT bring some Nether dragons with her. Then between Azuregos and Haleh we should be able to find out wtf Vakthros is given they are both ancient.

[Darkarath]

Soooo.... what are we expecting from the Blues quests this week?

Good question, actually. I am sure that is going to be about them coming together again, and I suppose that they would have to face a challenging situation that makes them come together. Hopefully they manage to throw there something about the relation between Malygos and Neltarion. I would love to see Malygos again, in any form, although it is unlikely. I guess that if that was the case we would already have a datamined model.

I would like that an Incarnate mess with them, kill someone, something dramatic. We will see.

[Nymrohd]

Soooo.... what are we expecting from the Blues quests this week?

Well I expect to see Blue dragon NPCs. So I expect Azuregos, Halegosa (last known Consort of Malygos? or is she something else I think it got retconned) and Tyrigosa (Kalec's original fiance) to show up, maybe Jorad to make an appearance. He did call them all and some of them probably were further away.
Now Tyri MIGHT bring some Nether dragons with her.

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Good question, actually. I am sure that is going to be about them coming together again, and I suppose that they would have to face a challenging situation that makes them come together. Hopefully they manage to throw there something about the relation between Malygos and Neltarion. I would love to see Malygos again, in any form, although it is unlikely. I guess that if that was the case we would already have a datamined model.

I would like that an Incarnate mess with them, kill someone, something dramatic. We will see.

If they bring Malygos' visage again, I hope someone bothers to use a better looking armor set for him.
I'd go for something like this: https://www.wowhead.com/dressing-roo...C808Ikl8MKS87R

[Gurahk]

Noticing a lot of cherrypicking in these "arguments" from both sides...
Anyways, I'm expecting the last campaign quest to be unlocked after the Blue questline. Hope we don't off Fyrakk just like that.

[Darkarath]

If they bring Malygos' visage again, I hope someone bothers to use a better looking armor set for him.
I'd go for something like this: https://www.wowhead.com/dressing-roo...C808Ikl8MKS87R

It is my hope that by the end of DF we get the chance to see all Aspects and Incarnates in their visage form. Malygos looked so cool in the Legacies series, I really hope to see him like that in the game, with a proper uniquer model, like the rest of the Aspects. Damn, Malygos was so mistreated in WotLK.

I also dream about Raszageth's visage form. With 10.1.5 megadungeon everything is possible. We would see if the time stuff is done by 10.1.5 or if it is expanded. I certainly hope that is the latter. 10.2 gives us the Emerald Dream and the Green Dragonflight stuff with an expanded timewalking system and 10.3 doubles down on that and the Reds and Bronzes.

[Nymrohd]

Noticing a lot of cherrypicking in these "arguments" from both sides...
Anyways, I'm expecting the last campaign quest to be unlocked after the Blue questline. Hope we don't off Fyrakk just like that.

Still holding out hope that 10.1.7 comes with a surprise small raid. Either just Fyrakk or a two boss raid with Fyrakk plus something else. Otherwise Vyranoth & Fyrakk together would make an awesome end of raid encounter for 10.2 raid.

[Eldryth]

I'm amused that your quote is full of annotations and references, and yet the part you bolded on the first paragraph has no reference, and I can't think of anywhere where that supposed part of the lore was said.

Also, the second bolded part literally is what we were talking about, about having no context. We only have the orcs' clam that some were forcefully converted.

Apparently it comes from the sermon cited in the following paragraph, which I had forgotten about myself. Turns out it kind of eliminated most of the ambiguity already:

Brothers and sisters,

Decades have passed since the last vestiges of the Legion were driven from Draenor. We could not have accomplished this noble undertaking without the help of the orc clans, united as the Mag'har.

Our fondest wish is for all the people of Draenor to remain unified in purpose. Sadly, this dream is not shared by all of those who once stood beside us.

Many noble orcs have embraced the Light. Exarch Hellscream has been an example for his people to follow. Yet sadly, his own father resists the true path.

I believe with all my heart that the Mag'har are destined to join us as servants of the Light. But first, they must be taught to trust the naaru as we do.

The Light Mother has blessed me with visions. I know that one day the Army of the Light will march across the Great Dark Beyond and bring order to countless worlds.

That bold future begins here. With us. We must make Draenor whole again.

I call upon you all to ensure that the future promised by the Light Mother is fulfilled. Purge the infection that prevents Draenor's heart from being whole.

The Light will forge a new future for the orcs... but first, we must save the Mag'har from themselves.

No more division. No more defiance. In the Light, we shall be one.

Yrel sees it as simply teaching the Orcs about the Light and the Naaru and thinks she's saving them, but the goal is absolutely to unite everyone under the Light, and then continue on to other worlds. That said, I think this Light Mother (whether it's Xe'ra as expected, another Prime Naaru, or something else entirely) makes more sense as an expansion villain with Yrel as her servant (who could either be freed and redeemed or die as a mid-tier end boss).

I also have to wonder whether Yrel and her Lightbound are actually embracing this zealotry of her own free will or there's some mental manipulation involved (which seemed to be the case with Illidan, and possibly Turalyon- Xe'ra did attempt to convert Illidan by force and Turalyon's eyes changed and started glowing in her presence).

[huth]

I also have to wonder whether Yrel and her Lightbound are actually embracing this zealotry of her own free will or there's some mental manipulation involved (which seemed to be the case with Illidan, and possibly Turalyon- Xe'ra did attempt to convert Illidan by force and Turalyon's eyes changed and started glowing in her presence).

At least people aren't pushing Turalyon as a villain as much anymore. I don't think he fits - he was relatively quickly talked down after Illidan politely declined Xe'ra's offer and in general seems more concerned about doing what is right than what is "the will of the Light". Not to mention his relationship with Alleria.

[Gurahk]

Hot take: The evil Yrel should be a dreadlord.
Why? Because I don't like the direction they went with, simple as that. Have alliance members find the real Yrel and work with her from there, while Horde members find surviving Mag'har, introducing some new characters into the mix.

[Super Dickmann]

Yrel becoming a Space Jihad leader is the most (read: only) interesting thing to have ever happened to her character. Not only should she be the real deal, but the transparent logic of her opposing the people who went on a war against her people led by the guy who sacrificed her sister to the void should be emphasized when she shows up to purify the MU.

[Teriz]

I also have to wonder whether Yrel and her Lightbound are actually embracing this zealotry of her own free will or there's some mental manipulation involved (which seemed to be the case with Illidan, and possibly Turalyon- Xe'ra did attempt to convert Illidan by force and Turalyon's eyes changed and started glowing in her presence).

That's certainly a possibility, and it could give her an out.

I'd still prefer to kill her though, then we fight Xe'ra and you find out that she was manipulating everything all along, but its too late to save Yrel and the Lightbound who you just killed by the truckload. Too bad, too sad.

[Santandame]

I don't think anyone here wants/needs your constant thread policing. See off-topic? Report. It didn't do shit? Tough titties, maybe it is you who is wrong.

Pretty sure many people do want this thread to stay on topic and for it to not continuously devolve into the personal chat room of around a handful of the usual suspects to talk shite. Most people just come into this thread expecting to see upcoming expansion and patch speculation, and then nope the fuck out when they see certain people treating it as their own group chat, who then shout down anyone who takes umbrage with it(and rightfully so) much like you just have.

[AngerFork]

I also have to wonder whether Yrel and her Lightbound are actually embracing this zealotry of her own free will or there's some mental manipulation involved (which seemed to be the case with Illidan, and possibly Turalyon- Xe'ra did attempt to convert Illidan by force and Turalyon's eyes changed and started glowing in her presence).

From everything we've seen of the Light thus far, it's absolutely both. The Light does seem to take over whomever it possesses, much as we saw with Turalyon and what it wanted to do with Illidan. It sees one path forward and anyone who won't follow that direct path is nothing sort of an obstacle.

Yet, that there is the tricky part of the Light. While the Light has no issue with remaking beings, most seem to be left with their free will intact. We saw this in A Thousand Years War after X'era imprisoned Alleria when Turalyon and Lothraxian both expressed still trusting Alleria. A full mental manipulation would have left both fully happy to see her imprisoned. So why weren't they? Simple. The Light does not fully possess, but instead works inside the hearts and minds of it's followers. This allows it's followers to direct their actions towards the Path.

With Illidan, this may well have worked had he opted to let the Light reshape him. He'd have tons of power from the Light, yet would still maintain his unpredictable chaotic nature and hatred of the Legion.

With someone like Yrel who already was devoted, this will only serve to shape her vision further. Her devotion to the Light helped her to save her world from the Legion in her mind. Her devotion to the Light helped her to save it again in her view when the Mag'har Orcs were killing AU Draenor. When the Light has proven itself so valuable to her, it need not mind control her...she trusts it implicitly.

That btw is why I think she can still be redeemed. Because we saw another being who implicitly trusted the Light move past that trust and play a huge role in saving Azeroth...Velen. And even though he may be a different Velen than Yrel knew, he's still likely to be pretty important in her eyes. If any part of her is wavering and needs guidance, Velen would be an amazing friend to her.