The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Makabreska]

Pretty sure many people do want this thread to stay on topic and for it to not continuously devolve into the personal chat room of around a handful of the usual suspects to talk shite. Most people just come into this thread expecting to see upcoming expansion and patch speculation, and then nope the fuck out when they see certain people treating it as their own group chat, who then shout down anyone who takes umbrage with it(and rightfully so) much like you just have.

Well then he spectacularly failed at his attempt. And again, if mods allow this to happen, maybe it was all okay?

[Santandame]

If we’re going to stay on the subject of a Light themed expansion with Yrel invading backed by X’era(which I do see happening as an expansion at some point but not in the following or even after that) then what zones do you lot see as being apart of the main landmass? How have the zones changed? What would the variety be to keep us from experiencing Light fatigue? I could see a Light “corrupted” Nagrand. Golden rolling plains as opposed to green to reflect the influence of the Light. Draenei architecture and structures replacing the Orcish settlements. Maybe even combined Draenei/Orc architecture?

Do we take the fight to Draenor again, this time radically changed by the Light instead of ripped apart by the Twisting Nether?

A sub-continent of zones grouped together in EK or Kalimdor? Such as Lordaeron (Plaguelands, Gilneas, Hillsbrad, Silverpine etc)? Northern Kalimdor? How do you see them changed if so?

A Cataclysm style with various zones spread out over EK and Kalimdor? Which ones?

A Light based realm or planet?

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Well then he spectacularly failed at his attempt. And again, if mods allow this to happen, maybe it was all okay?

I wouldn’t say he’s failed in the slightest as more and more people are seemingly starting to become more vocally annoyed about the drivel posted here at times.

Back on topic. For what it’s worth I still see the next two expansions being Tel’Abim and Avaloren in an interchangeable order. Tel’Abim will be our first look at a Middle Eastern, Arabian Nights, Indian inspired continent with associated lore such as Djinn, Ifrit, magical cities in the sands etc. With Avaloren focusing on a Greco-Roman style continent or a Medieval England, Camelot style landmass to coincide with Avalon. We could meet WoW’s interpretation of King Arthur, Merlin, Morgan Le Fay, and search for the Holy Grail.

[AngerFork]

If we’re going to stay on the subject of a Light themed expansion with Yrel invading backed by X’era(which I do see happening as an expansion at some point but not in the following or even after that) then what zones do you lot see as being apart of the main landmass?

Do we take the fight to Draenor again, this time radically changed by the Light instead of ripped apart by the Twisting Nether?

A sub-continent of zones grouped together in EK or Kalimdor? Such as Lordaeron (Plaguelands, Gilneas, Hillsbrad, Silverpine etc)? Northern Kalimdor? How do you see them changed if so?

A Cataclysm style with various zones spread out over EK and Kalimdor? Which ones?

A Light based realm or planet?

Good question. Initially, I'm thinking this could be done as a partial revamp of the northern portion of the Eastern Kingdoms, especially given how much that area has dealt with the Undead/Scourge/Forsaken. Perhaps the Undercity & Gilneas would serve as our faction hubs for such an expansion that could easily go from the Sepulcher (maybe Hillsbrad & Arathi as well) up through Tirisfal and the Plaguelands, all the way through the Dead Scar towards the Sunwell in Quel'thalas. You could perhaps have light invasions throughout all of the old continents, but those would be the main spots.

As for some of the patch zones, I'd probably go off world for a few of those. Imagine perhaps going to Farahlon in AU Draenor which is now a base of operation for Yrel's troops. Or perhaps we find a Light-based version of the Emerald Dream (which I still believe exists, even if we don't know about it yet).

The other possibility is Avaloren. We know little about it right now other than Odyn failing to get troops there to pursue heretics. We don't know what they've done or who they were. Given the duality of the Light & the Void we see with the Na'aru, those beings may well have been associated with either power at the time.

[Skildar]

Having the light element under the spotlight could be interesting for sure but they should do it through specific characters and factions that touches directly the people of Azeroth you care about and not in a "I'm going to mindcontrol/kill everyone in the galaxy/multiverse".

The important thing is also the hero and antihero's journey. We are in a dire need of characters that make horrible decisions for the greater good of their people and stand by their actions.

I want :
- orcs to destroy the heirlooms of the night elves because they need the resources of Ashenvale to reshape Durotar and I want to see Thrall struggle to accept that, having seen Garrosh go there because of Thrall's inaction toward his own people
- gilneans to sacrifice something big to cleanse their land in order to reclaim their kingdom and I want Darius and Lorna Crowley to lead the pack. Genn will try to push for a diplomatic support but with no success, etc.
- gnomes to make a new invention to counter a threat it will save many lives until it goes haywire and instead hurt their allies and I want mekkatorque new mechanical heart to guide us there.

The same goes for the light, void and other forces of the cosmos. I don't care as mich about them today, I care about the characters it touches and how it helps or hurts the cultures of Azeroth at a personal level.

I want next expansion to have a solid theme and be visually more impressive than the current but I would think that going back to some great story telling where we follow a hero's journey would be prime.

[Teriz]

If we’re going to stay on the subject of a Light themed expansion with Yrel invading backed by X’era(which I do see happening as an expansion at some point but not in the following or even after that) then what zones do you lot see as being apart of the main landmass? How have the zones changed? What would the variety be to keep us from experiencing Light fatigue? I could see a Light “corrupted” Nagrand. Golden rolling plains as opposed to green to reflect the influence of the Light. Draenei architecture and structures replacing the Orcish settlements. Maybe even combined Draenei/Orc architecture?

Do we take the fight to Draenor again, this time radically changed by the Light instead of ripped apart by the Twisting Nether?

A sub-continent of zones grouped together in EK or Kalimdor? Such as Lordaeron (Plaguelands, Gilneas, Hillsbrad, Silverpine etc)? Northern Kalimdor? How do you see them changed if so?

A Cataclysm style with various zones spread out over EK and Kalimdor? Which ones?

A Light based realm or planet?

More than likely it will be multi-prong, with multiple Azerothian locations being attacked at once. That could be the pre patch event, with the meat of the expansion taking place on a new landmass.

We’re more than likely not returning to Draenor. It’s likely dead or destroyed at this point.

[Ielenia]

Apparently it comes from the sermon cited in the following paragraph, which I had forgotten about myself. Turns out it kind of eliminated most of the ambiguity already:



Yrel sees it as simply teaching the Orcs about the Light and the Naaru and thinks she's saving them, but the goal is absolutely to unite everyone under the Light, and then continue on to other worlds. That said, I think this Light Mother (whether it's Xe'ra as expected, another Prime Naaru, or something else entirely) makes more sense as an expansion villain with Yrel as her servant (who could either be freed and redeemed or die as a mid-tier end boss).

I also have to wonder whether Yrel and her Lightbound are actually embracing this zealotry of her own free will or there's some mental manipulation involved (which seemed to be the case with Illidan, and possibly Turalyon- Xe'ra did attempt to convert Illidan by force and Turalyon's eyes changed and started glowing in her presence).

If that's the case, then I doubt we'd ever see Warlords of Draenor characters again, especially Yrel. And if we indeed get an expansion where we have the Light itself as the main antagonist, we won't be seeing Yrel.

Because it honestly doesn't sit right for the viewer to have a character we spent an entire expansion helping grow from a simple soldier into a leader of the draenei that follows in Velen's footsteps, to become a zealot "convert or die" kind of extremist. It'd be like we spend all the original Star Wars trilogy watching Luke grow from a simple farmer into a good and just hero of an entire galaxy... only for him to suddenly become the villain of the next trilogy, as if he was the leader of the First Order, so to speak.

It just doesn't feel right from a narrative perspective.

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Hot take: The evil Yrel should be a dreadlord.
Why? Because I don't like the direction they went with, simple as that.

Or that. That would be okay, if the real Yrel has been captured and replaced.

[ChairmanKaga]

Exarch Hellscream has been an example for his people to follow. Yet sadly, his own father resists the true path.

So there is a new Garrosh on alt-Draenor who is a Light zealot, interesting.

[Radioactive]

Am I the only one to think that the fact they added all these dragonriding races to the old world pretty much confirms a world revamp is dead at this point? Why would they bother implementing such a cool feature and awesome races for them to become irrelevant next expansion if they revamp the old world?

I agree that they won't spend time to implement numerous flying races on Kalimdor only to "destroy" them an expansion later... But I do not despair. To me it pretty much confirms a world revamp!

- For some reason they were interested and had to make a choice: they choose to make Dragonriding Races only on kalimdor. Meaning it will be the Eastern Kingdom that will be revamped. Which is good! Since revamping two massive continents would be too much work for an expansion. They'll need to focus on "only" one continent and make it really great.
- Blizz said (I can't find the exact quote) that the Cataclysm world revamp was pushed by the success of flying 1.0 and wanting to make people experience flying in the old world. ==> Dragonriding/Dynamic Flying is now the push they needed to make another oldworld revamp, and they choose to focus on the Easter Kingdoms as it seems.

Because this time it won't be a light revamp where they only update some areas, no. They're going all out and remaking the whole continent from the ground up and redesign every zone with dynamic flying in mind : Silvermoon shall rival with the grandeur and beauty of Suramar; Ironforge and Khaz Modan shall put Ulduar and the Storm peaks to shame.

The question is how they'll make leveling work in the revamped EK : specific zones for 1-70 leveling (Khaz Modan, Blackrock)? then other zones for 70-80? (Lordaeron, Quel'Thalas : light-themed expansion?)

And if WR (or partial WR) is indeed dead, I'm on board with some pristine Kalimdor expansions going forward (either we go there from timey-wimey stuff with the infinite/bronze dragonflight, or from the Emerald Dream which is essentially a pristine Kalimdor if that was not retconned)

[Teriz]

So there is a new Garrosh on alt-Draenor who is a Light zealot, interesting.

Which only fuels my belief that this is happening; Too many opportunities to see alternate versions of major characters.

[Telogrus]

What even is the philosophical difference between Light/Order and Void/Chaos? The Light wants to bring order to the universe, and the Void wants to bring chaos, so why are Order and Chaos their own separate Forces? Heck, Void does a better job representing Chaos than the Demons do.

[huth]

What even is the philosophical difference between Light/Order and Void/Chaos? The Light wants to bring order to the universe, and the Void wants to bring chaos, so why are Order and Chaos their own separate Forces? Heck, Void does a better job representing Chaos than the Demons do.

Light and Order are the more difficult one, though it seems it's dogmatism vs. strict rule adherence. The Light doesn't care about order so much as everybody doing what the Light wants. Light will accept breaking rules if it serves to advance its goals. Order will accept you diverging from its goals as long as you keep the rules.

You're completely off about the goal of the Void. The Void Lords in particular want to consume all, i.e. consign everything to nothingness or void. Chaos is just a side effect, not a goal by itself. It's also all about individualism and exploring all potential paths, i.e. the polar opposite of Light.

Disorder meanwhile seeks to do away with all rules, the only kind of organisation being the strong forcing the weak to do their bidding. By its nature, it doesn't really have any coherent goals.
Sargeras upended that whole thing for a while.

[Jekyll]

That actually isn’t a bad idea. I’d support something like that.

Also don’t forget Crypt Fiends from WC3 and Anub Arak from HotS.

EDIT: Gotta say, this concept is really intriguing me. Might have to make a thread about it.

Doooo EEEEEEEEAT

[Le Conceptuel]

What even is the philosophical difference between Light/Order and Void/Chaos? The Light wants to bring order to the universe, and the Void wants to bring chaos, so why are Order and Chaos their own separate Forces? Heck, Void does a better job representing Chaos than the Demons do.

My personal headcanon is that Order represents and embodies the mechanisms and function of physical and positive laws, whereas the Light distinguishes strictly what is and is not true/extant. As such, Order can be defined as manifesting rules and functions, whereas Light manifests order in the sense of strict definition. Meanwhile, Void represents chaos in the sense of illimitable possibilities,—unconcerned with distinguishing what is and is not,—whereas Disorder manifests chaos in the sense of something being profoundly wrong and precisely "disordered". In that sense, the Void is a limitless hodgepodge of everything that could potentially be, whereas Disorder is destructive physical and spiritual corruption.

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Honestly this is the main reason I’d want a Yrel/AU crusade expan id kill to see light forged Garrosh.

On one hand, it's profoundly stupid. On the other hand, it strikes a fascinating point between what is extremely awesome and what is so positively moronic as to be immensely funny, which makes me inclined to like it because the lore has been so irrevocably fucked by this point that embracing the cool stupid shit is the best way to go forward from here.

However, the sad fact that ought to be noted is that the Exarch is not Garrosh. Garrosh was never born in that timeline, which is precisely why Kairoz chose it. The Exarch is presumably another, entirely distinct Orc; even beyond the factual impossibility of it, I highly doubt somebody as jingoistic and meatheaded as Garrosh would be willing to submit to a foreign force.

[Palapop]

Plot twist: Neltharion is still alive. Ebyssian is Neltharion (that's the reason why he didnt enter Aberrus saying that the only legacy Neltharion left behind is death and destruction. and that Wrathion and Sabellian should witness it on their own)

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Light and Order both see 1 path, but one is far more dogmatic in its viewpoints. Order wants to follow the path of structuring everything, and going about the Titans way of things, hence why things such as Time follow the "1 true timeline" rule, etc. Meanwhile, Light thinks itself right and true, and will literally force people against their wills to do things, so long as it benefits the Light.

This really doesn’t seem like a light thing are more like a Xera thing. Like even the Narru them selfs didn’t have 1 path some wanted illidan dead for being a meany others thought he was the only hope and killing him was an awful crime.

The light it self seems like it couldn’t care less about what’s right or true as long as you believe in it which is why any one can use it for any thing as long as they have faith in it and there cause.

Hell if they really wanted to go with the light and void being opposites they could even make it so the light it self has no grand plan or even light lords and just gives it’s power freely where as the void has lords and ulterior motives. It would even make sense with the Narru who unlike the old gods weren’t sent out on a mission and were just a by product of creating the universe shot out with the Big Bang.

[Nathanyel]

Well it's like she's just forgiven for everything she did because supposedly the Jailer was pulling her strings all along.

Ah yes, cleanup duty in hell = all is forgiven.

Not to mention it's the so-called "evil side" that says "stop this bloodshed", while the "oppressed side" is the one that says "I want another exarch head to mount on my wall":

Not to bring RL shit into this, but that's actually a method of oppression, saying "don't fight back", "stop resisting", "just be normal (=like us)" and ordering "offering" magical conversion therapy.

[Eldryth]

If we’re going to stay on the subject of a Light themed expansion with Yrel invading backed by X’era(which I do see happening as an expansion at some point but not in the following or even after that) then what zones do you lot see as being apart of the main landmass? How have the zones changed? What would the variety be to keep us from experiencing Light fatigue? I could see a Light “corrupted” Nagrand. Golden rolling plains as opposed to green to reflect the influence of the Light. Draenei architecture and structures replacing the Orcish settlements. Maybe even combined Draenei/Orc architecture?

Do we take the fight to Draenor again, this time radically changed by the Light instead of ripped apart by the Twisting Nether?

A sub-continent of zones grouped together in EK or Kalimdor? Such as Lordaeron (Plaguelands, Gilneas, Hillsbrad, Silverpine etc)? Northern Kalimdor? How do you see them changed if so?

A Cataclysm style with various zones spread out over EK and Kalimdor? Which ones?

A Light based realm or planet?

They could use Draenor's other continent, we still haven't seen anything of that besides a bit of the coast on the world map. Alternatively, the fact that they're planning to spread the Light to other worlds means that they could show up pretty much anywhere- whether that means Azeroth or an entirely new world.

Regardless, I think that, at least initially, we shouldn't be facing them on their home turf. Save the light-dominated world for the late-expansion patches and start with a place they're trying to convert. Have them come in peace and grow forceful- and then outright hostile- to everyone who isn't receptive to their teachings as we progress through the story.

[Darkarath]

I agree that they won't spend time to implement numerous flying races on Kalimdor only to "destroy" them an expansion later... But I do not despair. To me it pretty much confirms a world revamp!

- For some reason they were interested and had to make a choice: they choose to make Dragonriding Races only on kalimdor. Meaning it will be the Eastern Kingdom that will be revamped. Which is good! Since revamping two massive continents would be too much work for an expansion. They'll need to focus on "only" one continent and make it really great.
- Blizz said (I can't find the exact quote) that the Cataclysm world revamp was pushed by the success of flying 1.0 and wanting to make people experience flying in the old world. ==> Dragonriding/Dynamic Flying is now the push they needed to make another oldworld revamp, and they choose to focus on the Easter Kingdoms as it seems.

For me is quite the opossite, actually.

First, the Eastern Kingdoms will have Dragonriding too, I am pretty sure that they were already some related datamined achievements.

Precisely the fact that they are adding Dragonriding to the old continents is a reason to believe that this will not happen. And believe me, I hope that I am wrong.

Why would they spend time making Dragonriding races if a revamp would change them? There would be terrain changes for sure in a revamp, and I am pretty confident that zones would be mixed into bigger zones too, as current Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms zones are small compared to current ones.

Anyway, I still have hope because if a revamp happens, is either going to be a visual one, or is going to happen in a new map without changing the Cataclysm zones (IMO).

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I feel like if they don't want to do a revamp, they should at least add some world quests to older zones that unlock a currency that you can spend for HD version of some old armor sets/weapons, so you can at least do something there again.

I would be happy with something like making goldshire bigger, better looking with the use of these datamined HD human buildings and overall small things getting updated ijn other zones.

I also think that WoW is lacking a introductory campaign for new players, like in other games like in GW 2 you have campaign quest every 10 lvls and you don't jump from some big zone to another with disconnected stories.

[lanerios]

Definitely agree going right from DF to light vs void seems sudden. I wouldn't be surprised if they did another expansion first.

I think Ion had a quote about how they'll still have cosmic expansions. I think those will be set primarily on azeroth after SL's reception. I would be surprised if they had an entire expansion set on another world/plane. But I could see light vs void set on azeroth, with patch content on k'aresh/wherever. Similar to the Legion model.

But basically yeah I do think they could make a "grounded" version of a light vs void expansion.

Tbf, the whole Void VS Light fanboyism comes from the same people who desperatly want to see Yrel be the new big evil. Nobody knows why, but apparently one NPC in one side quest (heritage armor) being evil is now enough for a whole expansion.

my theory is that it's the same as with Lady Dimitresque in RE8. Just a whole "evil mommy" kind of obsession from people.

If we're going Void vs Light, personally I'd much rather see more settled/grounded factions in this war. Stuff like:

Scarlets (or whatever is left of them)
Priest class hall
Alleria

sides that already had to deal with this void vs light issue.