The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Luck4]

Plot twist: Neltharion is still alive. Ebyssian is Neltharion (that's the reason why he didnt enter Aberrus saying that the only legacy Neltharion left behind is death and destruction. and that Wrathion and Sabellian should witness it on their own)

Then who is Deathwing?

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I feel like if they don't want to do a revamp, they should at least add some world quests to older zones that unlock a currency that you can spend for HD version of some old armor sets/weapons, so you can at least do something there again.

I would be happy with something like making goldshire bigger, better looking with the use of these datamined HD human buildings and overall small things getting updated ijn other zones.

Cataclysm happened way too soon, back then we didn't have anything that could make better use of the Old World, and the fact that it's been nearly 15 years since that happened and we've no Revamp in sight is really frustrating.

Blizzard keeps "asspulling" new places to explore while we have two giant continents that would look unrecognizable for the vast majority of the player base if they revamp it like Arathi in BFA while keeping the new expansion grounded and "Warcrafty".

I think Blizzard should at the very least create a program for fans to send Mods/Models to be validated and introduced into the game since there're already people out there doing Revamps/Remakes just for passion.

[Nymrohd]

For me is quite the opossite, actually.

First, the Eastern Kingdoms will have Dragonriding too, I am pretty sure that they were already some related datamined achievements.

Precisely the fact that they are adding Dragonriding to the old continents is a reason to believe that this will not happen. And believe me, I hope that I am wrong.

Why would they spend time making Dragonriding races if a revamp would change them? There would be terrain changes for sure in a revamp, and I am pretty confident that zones would be mixed into bigger zones too, as current Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms zones are small compared to current ones.

Anyway, I still have hope because if a revamp happens, is either going to be a visual one, or is going to happen in a new map without changing the Cataclysm zones (IMO).

Yeah for me Kalimdor dragon racing just killed the Revamp dream completely. Maybe we could get visual updates that are fully procedural; batch replacement of world objects, retexturing existing terrain, maybe some light work with world geometry when it comes to zone borders. Maybe. Still low chance at it.

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Then who is Deathwing?

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Cataclysm happened way too soon, back then we didn't have anything that could make better use of the Old World, and the fact that it's been nearly 15 years since that happened and we've no Revamp in sight is really frustrating.

Blizzard keeps "asspulling" new places to explore while we have two giant continents that would look unrecognizable for the vast majority of the player base if they revamp it like Arathi in BFA while keeping the new expansion grounded and "Warcrafty".

I think Blizzard should at the very least create a program for fans to send Mods/Models to be validated and introduced into the game since there're already people out there doing Revamps/Remakes just for passion.

They really could even do full remakes and just connect it with the old world using the new seamless transition system they made for Zaralek. Most of the subcontinents could support entire expansions if somewhat enlarged to bring them closer to the scale of e.g. Kul Tiras. Lordaeron in particular has massive potential that involves multiple races from both factions.
But given Kalimdor Dragon racing and likely EK getting the same in 10.1.7 or 10.2.5 . . . the revamp dream seems dead

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Lordaeron in particular has massive potential that involves multiple races from both factions.
But given Kalimdor Dragon racing and likely EK getting the same in 10.1.7 or 10.2.5 . . . the revamp dream seems dead

Honestly, remade/fixed Lordaeron being a main hub for both Horde and alliance has a big potential and from there we could have some campaign story in older zones.

[Schwert]

For me is quite the opossite, actually.

First, the Eastern Kingdoms will have Dragonriding too, I am pretty sure that they were already some related datamined achievements.

Precisely the fact that they are adding Dragonriding to the old continents is a reason to believe that this will not happen. And believe me, I hope that I am wrong.

Why would they spend time making Dragonriding races if a revamp would change them? There would be terrain changes for sure in a revamp, and I am pretty confident that zones would be mixed into bigger zones too, as current Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms zones are small compared to current ones.

Anyway, I still have hope because if a revamp happens, is either going to be a visual one, or is going to happen in a new map without changing the Cataclysm zones (IMO).

It is likely that an updated old world would allow us to revisit the "old" versions with the bronze dragons.
So anything they do with the old zones isn't lost, allowing them to tinker with this stuff.

Making these races doesn't seem entirely resource intensive. This isn't like they just added massive quest chains or anything.

[Nymrohd]

Honestly, remade/fixed Lordaeron being a main hub for both Horde and alliance has a big potential and from there we could have some campaign story in older zones.

Lordaeron imo is just badly done to begin with as a sub continent. Quel'thalas being separate, the lack of the Stratholme Bay area (often called Northeron by fans), the Amani heartlands not existing, Alterac Valley having no place whatsoever in the map are all weird choices. Heck I never even understood why they changed the geography so radically from the WC3 and before maps; Lordamere Lake no longer connects to the ocean (you could have had a harbor in Capital City if it did) with Dalaran at the mouth of the river connecting the Lake with the sea, Gilneas having a very different shape, no Channel Islands leading to Kul Tiras...

[Sondrelk]

There is.

Light and Order both see 1 path, but one is far more dogmatic in its viewpoints. Order wants to follow the path of structuring everything, and going about the Titans way of things, hence why things such as Time follow the "1 true timeline" rule, etc. Meanwhile, Light thinks itself right and true, and will literally force people against their wills to do things, so long as it benefits the Light. Many people become fanatics as well when deep into the Light and its faith. Much like religious people in a way.

Shadow has many types of things for its influence, but the Void mostly wants to bring everything to nothingness and whatnot, and will go about any means necessary to make sure their influence gets expanded upon. They do see infinite possibilities of course.

Also, Disorder is just that, Disorderly. The Demons are very much chaotic in nature, the Nether is absolutely chaotic in how it works and whatnot, Disorder overall represents anarchy, lawlessness, and chaos, etc.

At least the Void has a type of rule to it, even if it's a very Lovecraftian and dark rule. Disorder has no real "rule" and was only ever given a "rule" once Sargeras created the Legion.

The way I read it is that Order wants everything to be ordered. Everything should work properly, like a clock on a shelf. What happens to the clock isn't as important as long as it keeps ticking.
The Light meanwhile doesn't really care about Order so much as it wants a specific endgoal. It wants a shelf with all its favorite things on it, and it doesn't care how ruined the rest of the room gets so long as the shelf ends up looking good in the end.

Void and Disorder are more abstract. But here I see it as the Void being primarily concerned with possibilities. All kinds of stuff could happen, and we should pursue every single one if it means marginal improvements.
Disorder meanwhile has no plans whatsoever, rather being complete anarchy.
To continue the shelf analogy, the Void would constantly replace things on the shelf or add new shelves if it found a new toy. Disorder would just break the shelf.

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Yeah for me Kalimdor dragon racing just killed the Revamp dream completely. Maybe we could get visual updates that are fully procedural; batch replacement of world objects, retexturing existing terrain, maybe some light work with world geometry when it comes to zone borders. Maybe. Still low chance at it.

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They really could even do full remakes and just connect it with the old world using the new seamless transition system they made for Zaralek. Most of the subcontinents could support entire expansions if somewhat enlarged to bring them closer to the scale of e.g. Kul Tiras. Lordaeron in particular has massive potential that involves multiple races from both factions.
But given Kalimdor Dragon racing and likely EK getting the same in 10.1.7 or 10.2.5 . . . the revamp dream seems dead

How is Dragonriding being added in any way killing the world Revamp dream? Isn't it just as likely it proves it is happening given it shows the developers are working on the old continents to make Dragonriding possible?

Unless we assume that the revamped zones disappear completely then surely the races would just be old content, like what every single Dragonriding race we have in the Dragon Isles would be. Did Legion make a world revamp impossible because we had a few quests in old zones?

[Super Dickmann]

The way I read it is that Order wants everything to be ordered. Everything should work properly, like a clock on a shelf. What happens to the clock isn't as important as long as it keeps ticking.
The Light meanwhile doesn't really care about Order so much as it wants a specific endgoal. It wants a shelf with all its favorite things on it, and it doesn't care how ruined the rest of the room gets so long as the shelf ends up looking good in the end.

Jumping off of this, in as much as there's a difference, it's one of priorities. Order does good in order to facilitate structure. The Light creates structure because it maximizes good. To Order, the means are the end. It doesn't make much difference if something works well, if it could at some point break, if it isn't foreseeable and its actions aren't understandable. That's why the default titan constructs are automaton people who do have traits, but are preset towards their purpose and why the first order of business for dragons is to take the random colouring of the Aspects and turn them into broad categories. Categories, plural, being the operative term.

By contrast, it doesn't much interest the Light whether you convert out of genuine conviction, or really what that conviction even is, you could want to heal the sick or to club the nonbeliever, so long as you're tied to the source it doesn't matter. In ideal circumstances, you wouldn't be forced into it, but if you are, tough, it's for your own good. Which is what leads into the other main point - the Light is intrinsically positive. The traits that are tied into it - empathy, courage, selflessness etc. are invariably good, its effects are geared towards support and healing. It aligns the soul and makes you a better person. You can use it for evil, but its principal nature is good, much like how the void's principal nature is evil, but it can be used for good.

[Lahis]

Blizzcon is gonna be very intriguing though, WoW is on such a good roll right now.

For how long though? Blizz is constantly losing people. They constantly require to cut back on planned features on their games. There is no quarantee Dragonflight can reach its finnish without crumbling on the way and it'll be small miracle if 11.0 is any good at this rate.

[Nymrohd]

Jumping off of this, in as much as there's a difference, it's one of priorities. Order does good in order to facilitate structure. The Light creates structure because it maximizes good. To Order, the means are the end. It doesn't make much difference if something works well, if it could at some point break, if it isn't foreseeable and its actions aren't understandable. That's why the default titan constructs are automaton people who do have traits, but are preset towards their purpose and why the first order of business for dragons is to take the random colouring of the Aspects and turn them into broad categories. Categories, plural, being the operative term.

By contrast, it doesn't much interest the Light whether you convert out of genuine conviction, or really what that conviction even is, you could want to heal the sick or to club the nonbeliever, so long as you're tied to the source it doesn't matter. In ideal circumstances, you wouldn't be forced into it, but if you are, tough, it's for your own good. Which is what leads into the other main point - the Light is intrinsically positive. The traits that are tied into it - empathy, courage, selflessness etc. are invariably good, its effects are geared towards support and healing. It aligns the soul and makes you a better person. You can use it for evil, but its principal nature is good, much like how the void's principal nature is evil, but it can be used for good.

You know I'd like to say so much more about this BUT this is ENTIRELY a lore discussion and not a future content discussion.

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For how long though? Blizz is constantly losing people. They constantly require to cut back on planned features on their games. There is no quarantee Dragonflight can reach its finnish without crumbling on the way and it'll be small miracle if 11.0 is any good at this rate.

Really they are going into Blizzcon with the Overwatch 2 disaster over their heads. And it absolutely is a disaster and they lied to our faces about it when they launched OW2 telling us it would have PvE when they had already decided the version of PvE promised would be killed.

Which is why they need at least one of their products to have something major to sell. I am hoping for WoW to have big news. I'll say it again, the next expac is likely to release during the 20th/30th anniversary. Part of me will always hope for Revamp which imo is the only thing BIG enough to show that the franchise has decades forward except for maybe Housing. But if it is not Revamp and it is just another "4-5 zones, 8 dungeons, 1 raid with 8-10 bosses" they don't need a convention for that.

HS just is not likely to have anything else than more of the same. HotS is dead. The Survival game is likely still way off. Arclight Rumble might be fun but the Blizzcon crowd is not the target audience. So they have WoW and Diablo 4. It IS possible that we get a Diablo 4 expansion reveal

[Sondrelk]

Jumping off of this, in as much as there's a difference, it's one of priorities. Order does good in order to facilitate structure. The Light creates structure because it maximizes good. To Order, the means are the end. It doesn't make much difference if something works well, if it could at some point break, if it isn't foreseeable and its actions aren't understandable. That's why the default titan constructs are automaton people who do have traits, but are preset towards their purpose and why the first order of business for dragons is to take the random colouring of the Aspects and turn them into broad categories. Categories, plural, being the operative term.

By contrast, it doesn't much interest the Light whether you convert out of genuine conviction, or really what that conviction even is, you could want to heal the sick or to club the nonbeliever, so long as you're tied to the source it doesn't matter. In ideal circumstances, you wouldn't be forced into it, but if you are, tough, it's for your own good. Which is what leads into the other main point - the Light is intrinsically positive. The traits that are tied into it - empathy, courage, selflessness etc. are invariably good, its effects are geared towards support and healing. It aligns the soul and makes you a better person. You can use it for evil, but its principal nature is good, much like how the void's principal nature is evil, but it can be used for good.

I also want to point out that while it could just be a problem of low representation, that we have yet to see an actual Titan do shady stuff. It's always the Titan keepers and other Titan constructs that does whatever in the name of the Titans.

If I were to extrapolate from this then my interpretation is that the Titans honestly don't care about what happens after they order stuff. As you said, the means are the end. They just want to treat the universe as a large scale ant farm. Going into a world, setting up the parameters, then leave it to do its own thing.
It's then once they leave that the Titan keepers, who evidently treat the Titans as beyond reproach, get their hands on the machinery that things go awry.

The Light meanwhile just wants everything to be perfect. There is one correct solution to every problem, and that solution is to preserve everything in light stasis forever.

[Lahis]

You know I'd like to say so much more about this BUT this is ENTIRELY a lore discussion and not a future content discussion.

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Really they are going into Blizzcon with the Overwatch 2 disaster over their heads. And it absolutely is a disaster and they lied to our faces about it when they launched OW2 telling us it would have PvE when they had already decided the version of PvE promised would be killed.

Which is why they need at least one of their products to have something major to sell. I am hoping for WoW to have big news. I'll say it again, the next expac is likely to release during the 20th/30th anniversary. Part of me will always hope for Revamp which imo is the only thing BIG enough to show that the franchise has decades forward except for maybe Housing. But if it is not Revamp and it is just another "4-5 zones, 8 dungeons, 1 raid with 8-10 bosses" they don't need a convention for that.

HS just is not likely to have anything else than more of the same. HotS is dead. The Survival game is likely still way off. Arclight Rumble might be fun but the Blizzcon crowd is not the target audience. So they have WoW and Diablo 4. It IS possible that we get a Diablo 4 expansion reveal

World revamp has the chance of crashing and burning harder than anything else if they lose the manpower to deliver it mid development.

Meh expansion is just meh expansion.

Meh EK and Kalimdor is meh game forever.

[Sondrelk]

You know I'd like to say so much more about this BUT this is ENTIRELY a lore discussion and not a future content discussion.

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Really they are going into Blizzcon with the Overwatch 2 disaster over their heads. And it absolutely is a disaster and they lied to our faces about it when they launched OW2 telling us it would have PvE when they had already decided the version of PvE promised would be killed.

Which is why they need at least one of their products to have something major to sell. I am hoping for WoW to have big news. I'll say it again, the next expac is likely to release during the 20th/30th anniversary. Part of me will always hope for Revamp which imo is the only thing BIG enough to show that the franchise has decades forward except for maybe Housing. But if it is not Revamp and it is just another "4-5 zones, 8 dungeons, 1 raid with 8-10 bosses" they don't need a convention for that.

HS just is not likely to have anything else than more of the same. HotS is dead. The Survival game is likely still way off. Arclight Rumble might be fun but the Blizzcon crowd is not the target audience. So they have WoW and Diablo 4. It IS possible that we get a Diablo 4 expansion reveal

I wouldn't be shocked if we might start to get internal strife within Blizzard. It might be in the WoW developers best interest to not be associated with the Overwatch developers for instance.

Though honestly, i think we are going to get the usual. A medium backtracking. The changes are being reverted, but also the changes we made previously were misinterpreted and whatever we are going to get is what we probably wanted from the beginning.

Or of course the Overwatch stuff is going to be old hat by then, and all the focus is going to be on Diablo IV and WoW 11.0

[Shadowferal]

Tbf, the whole Void VS Light fanboyism comes from the same people who desperatly want to see Yrel be the new big evil.

The whole of which I can't take seriously since it validates that ridiculous cosmic chart.

[Nymrohd]

World revamp has the chance of crashing and burning harder than anything else if they lose the manpower to deliver it mid development.

Meh expansion is just meh expansion.

Meh EK and Kalimdor is meh game forever.

Absolutely true. They can make a complete mess of it pretty damn easy. Imo they cannot just do a revamp for an expac. Either they have been working on it behind the scenes for years or maybe they could do a partial revamp of part of the map as an expansion. I do have a concept of them just updating zones visually and having them join a TW rotation that is far more impactful but that would need a thread of its own to discuss.

At the same time, if they come back with Blizzcon after so many years only to reveal a cookie cutter xpac for WoW, a card set for HS, MAYBE an expac for D4 and nothing for the rest of their games they will be a laughing stock.

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I wouldn't be shocked if we might start to get internal strife within Blizzard. It might be in the WoW developers best interest to not be associated with the Overwatch developers for instance.

Though honestly, i think we are going to get the usual. A medium backtracking. The changes are being reverted, but also the changes we made previously were misinterpreted and whatever we are going to get is what we probably wanted from the beginning.

Or of course the Overwatch stuff is going to be old hat by then, and all the focus is going to be on Diablo IV and WoW 11.0

If the merger fails (and with the CMA block that is the more likely scenario) who knows what might happen at ATVI. Titan has been the bane of Blizzard. So much of Overwatch's success had nothing to do with the gameplay but rather with the excitement people showed for the world building and the characters and a PvE mode would have been explosive for that crowd

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The whole of which I can't take seriously since it validates that ridiculous cosmic chart.

Ridiculous or not, it is what we have.

[CopyX1982]

Blizzcon is really gonna be a big moment for them, wonder what the betting is they fumble the ball, against them pulling off a blinder?

[Nymrohd]

Blizzcon is really gonna be a big moment for them, wonder what the betting is they fumble the ball, against them pulling off a blinder?

I'm going for fumble. They don't have much to show.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

They have this mobile phone warcraft"(EDIT) game and another mobile warcraft game in the works, also this FPP survival game they will probably show.

If Microsoft won't be able to buy them, someone else will and it will be probably tescent or some other part, even worse one.

I prefer to be positive this time, i really don't want another shadowlands behind the scenes shitstorm and problems, so they will still release enjoyable stuff.

Even tho i have hundred of hours in OV1 and like 10 in OV2 i don't really care about recent drama because i think most people that stopped playing already accepted it that OV2 was just made to change the monetization model and they gained a shitton of money with it, sadly.

[Sondrelk]

I'm going for fumble. They don't have much to show.

Except the next WoW expansion.
It's all kinds of anniversary stuff for Warcraft, so I imagine they might go all in on WoW stuff. If they pull out all the stops on crowd pleaser announcements then I somehow doubt the issues plaguing the other titles will really matter forge event.

[Santandame]

As much as I do genuinely believe we are getting the standard “5 zones, 8 new dungeons, 1 new raid, 1 new big feature” styled expansion set on Avaloren or Tel’Abim next - I’d be lying if I wouldn’t lose my shit if we got a voiceover from Thrall/Anduin/Jaina/Alexstrasza/whoever, announcing that the Azeroth is healing and the world is flourishing, with new threats scattered arising, and new fledgling heroes rising to answer the call.

BOOM AZEROTH REBORN. *cue epic WoW music*

Revamped Azeroth, with the merger of some zones. Lordaeron, Khaz Modan, Kingdom of Stormwind, Northern Kalimdor etc. Each kingdom with its own multiple zone spamming campaign tied to that kingdom.

New specs added for each class as the classes use this time of growth to learn new skills. Bard for Rogues, tank spec for Shamans, healer spec for Mages etc.

With the retaking of Gnomeregan and the expansion of Gadgetzan, the Tinker class is now available.

Racial campaigns.

Class fantasy returning.

Player housing.

Greater character customisation due to the races flourishing. As well as toggles for existing races such as Broken Draenei, Mok’nathal for Orcs, Amani for Trolls, etc etc etc.

Many of the main cast of characters who have been prominent in the spotlight setting off on an expedition to Avaloren, setting up future content as well as giving under utilised characters a chance in the limelight.

Murozond’s attack on the Dragon Isles leaving lasting damage, resulting in a greater focus on time walking content.

One can certainly dream.

[Nymrohd]

One can certainly dream.

Sure. Many of us want all that as well But dreams don't survive waking.