The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Chickat]

I agree.

While I understand that some people might see it as something that should have been in the game 10 years ago and that it is in fact a QoL feature, that does not diminishes its value in any way.

Warbands are going to be loved by 99% of the playerbase. It will make the game so much better and it will allow us to play whatever character we want.

I have been meticulously killing all my alts for years because eventually I realised that I had so many things done with my main and so much shit to do still, that spending time in alts seems like a waste of time (my problem, I know, but I think that many players share this mental illness). With Warbands this problem will be (eventually) gone.

I will play even more WoW (if that's possible) thanks to this feature.

Also, Warbands while not epic to everyone take a ton of work to pull off. Like talent revamp levels of work. Its an engineering nightmare to make everything account wide.

[Scyth]

I see people on reddit saying many streamers aren't streaming until Wednesday (US time I guess) so Alpha will start in the next day or so. We probably should expect a lot of WoW news soon then.
Hype!

[Chickat]

Blizzcon 2015 was 3 Months after Gamescom. So yes it was Months later.

Also Ion explained perfectly fine what Delves are.

He even walked us through how 2 or 3 would go. If people lack the imagination to follow along and comprehend that, its on them.

- - - Updated - - -

The fact that they include this in every expansion as an agenda doesn't make it popular among the community. He's too spineless and uninteresting a character to pay for. No woman will buy his statue because he's that nerd in high school. No man will buy his statue because Anduin has a small penis aura. So I guarantee that Anduin will never get a statue or anything worth more than $15 in his life. At most, a chibi-style sticker or something like that for a couple of cents.

They are and have been building him up to be the face of Warcaft since at least Legion, if not MoP.

Hes sticking around and incredibly important. Get over it.

[allegrian]

I don't know, the end result of that would be the total extinction of many Kalimdor races like Tauren, Night Elves, and even the Darkspear Trolls since the Blood Horde ravaged the land and the Glorious Good Alliance dropped toxic bombs on them to get rid of them. It would work for maybe a "What If" Warcraft scenario story mission, but not in an MMO.



I would say they should make it a choice like with BFA, only with better rewards for being loyal to one side instead of having to wait a whole expansion just for some of the rewards (like the Sylvanas Loyalist stuff).

Like let's say Turalyon goes off his rocker and decides to make everyone in the Alliance become Lightbound like him or join his cause in removing the Horde permanently. However, the major downside is that once you go against Turalyon, then he'll have the entire city guard go after you and chase you out. All the knights replaced with Paladins instead and turns Stormwind (temporarily) into a hostile area. [But this is only phased for those who actually did the quest, anyone else who didn't do the quest won't have to worry about it.]

The choice in bfa made no sense and has no place in wow. In lore, loyalist playable characters should be dead or have left the horde, instead they join Tyrande to help her defend her new tree. It doesn't make sense, hell, not even Sylvannas herself should like the playable loyalist characters as they helped and agreed with her evil self, which she hates (thus the speciall message for loyalists in the undead heritage makes no sense).

You can't be evil just sometimes and then be a hero like everybody else afterwards while helping your former victims for no reason. If they want a villain faction/race, they have to be always evil and have limitations and different quest options for the whole game.

Loyalist choices were a rushed afterthought and the whole horde as playable faction is a mess lorewise thanks to BFA. That's why it's hard for me to play it and stay inmersed in the game world, story and logic.

[Chickat]

They do this, which is why we don't have any merchandise featuring Anduin. He is like an icon of non-toxic masculinity, a universal man who should be a constant presence in history and teach boys about sensitivity. But they know that people will only pay for hot characters. Therefore, everyone plays their role. Characters like Illidan and Sylvanas will receive the thousandth statue for thousands of dollars. Anduin gives propaganda for free

Yet. They took him through a trauma arc. An arc btw in which you would also have terrible PTSD in real life from. Hes going to come into his own and be a badass by the end of TWW. Its clearly what they are doing. Going through tough times makes people stronger.

Varian would not have been as cool if he didn't go through all he went through.

- - - Updated - - -

https://twitter.com/christiegolden/s...86529281839104

Thats not propaganda its the truth. Sorry you don't believe in loving kind fathers and men. Stay mad I guess?

[Ersula]

Shadowlands has the worst writing of any expansion ever by a mile. It makes BFA look clear and concise. DF writing isn't amazing, but its serviceable and a little boring.

Correct.

SL was actively tearing down the franchise one patch at a time. SL was absolutely more destructive to the IP than any other expansion.

Hyperbole: You have the figures right in front of you. Compared to pre-wod where subs swell up to 12 million, Shadowlands have the same average subscriptions as Legion. If the consensus is that players loved Legion & hated Shadowlands, the subs would reflect that, but they don't.

Yeah, but thats only because of classic. Without classic subs would be up to 50% lower.

Citation needed.

[Chickat]

Sorry, what's he propaganda for?

Being nice?

Yeah, men are tough and rough. They cant wear any feminine colors, or show their emotions. Thats what people like him think. The world will be a much better place as soon as that thought process dies out.

- - - Updated - - -

If it was the case, the curves wouldn't be so smooth (and Blizz would have maube kept a TBC classic server).

They dont want to fragment classic players that much. TBC is popular, just not as popular as vanilla. Are you implying TBC didn't bring over 1m players back because thats a take for sure lmao.

- - - Updated - - -

Correct. Hyperbole: You have the figures right in front of you. Compared to pre-wod where subs swell up to 12 million, Shadowlands have the same average subscriptions as Legion. If the consensus is that players loved Legion & hated Shadowlands, the subs would reflect that, but they don't.
Citation needed.

From both of us. Neither of us have proof to back up our claims on classic sub numbers.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know, he looks pretty damn hot to me.

Yeah, hes giving daddy energy.

[justwatching]

Stop comparing post classic subscription numbers to pre classic. My God.

[Chickat]

FWIW, I just rewatched the post BlizzCon Q&A, and realised they said both Quel'thalas and Northrend will be rebuilt and reimagined. I wonder what they'll come up with.

I have to admit, Howling Fjord, Sholazar Basin and Storm Peaks would be nice to revisit in HD. We kinda already saw what they can do with the Grizzly Hills in DF.

I imagine parts of some zones sunk into the ocean or were flooded. I think it will be around Northrend sized still, but there will be at least 1 new zone. Like turning Ulduar into an actual zone.

- - - Updated - - -

I think they will lean pretty heavily into Howling Fjord, and it will be interesting to see a third revision of Vrykul.

Hopefully playable this time.

- - - Updated - - -

I feel like Wymrest is too small to be a "Hub city" its just one tower and not a very big one at that, you could fit the entire tower inside the Valdrakken tower

- - - Updated - - -

Curve-ball - the hub is Strand of the Ancients

The Hub is a ground based mage city in crystalsong Forrest. New Dalaran. Big city though taking up most of the zone.

- - - Updated - - -

Why not. It's big enough, it's definitely impressive. It does have too strong a theme though given that the expac is unlikely to be about undeath in any major way.

They can paint it and put little rubber balls on every spike. Childproof ICC lmao.

[allegrian]

SL had worse writing and the stupid "Jailer was behind everything" + "titan's titans" rehash which made no sense. But I'd say BFA made more lasting damage to the franchise. While SL did do damage, you can ignore that or retcon it more easily than the horde stupid villain batting 2.0 and night elf massacre. At least Kul Tiras had great zones, world building and music, and Zandalar was nice as well.

[Chickat]

While it feels fairly obvious how they will expand QT in Midnight, I think there will be some big curve balls for Northrend to spice it up. A lot of the continent is flat and sparse (Tundra, Dragonblight) so I expect some cata-level shakeups. Maybe Dragonblight gets caved in.

DB gone, Wyrrmrest temple saved by magic and now floating above. New zone is Nerubian zone.

[Khaza-R]

Didn't they say one of the zones is the biggest they have ever made, or am I misremembering a quote?

I believe they said Azure Span is possibly the largest zone they've made to date. That might be what you're thinking of.

I don't think they made that claim about TWW zones but I could be wrong. But just looking at a very urban space like Azj-Kahet, I think its very unlikely it will be anything to the scale of DF zones. But even if it was 20% of larger than Suramar, that would be very impressive in my opinion.

[allegrian]

I believe they said Azure Span is possibly the largest zone they've made to date. That might be what you're thinking of.

I don't think they made that claim about TWW zones but I could be wrong. But just looking at a very urban space like Azj-Kahet, I think its very unlikely it will be anything to the scale of DF zones. But even if it was 20% of larger than Suramar, that would be very impressive in my opinion.

DF zones could have 2-3 northrend zones inside them, if not more. But it doesn't feel that way as we're all just speed boosting through them from the air. I liked ground based gameplay in the first patches from the expansions from wod to SL, it made it feel more real and made you get to explore and know each zone. I loved it in BFA alongside war mode, which is a nothing burger now. When I stop on the ground on DF zones like the azure span and start walking, it feels as if it was the first time I got to that zone.

Maybe I should limit myself to play grounded at the start of the next expansion when possible.

[Chickat]

Well, we know Icecrown is melting, so that alone should cause some major environmental changes across the continent.

Icecrown laid bare, revealing whatever is frozen beneath the permafrost.
More water pouring into Crystalsong.
Maybe Sholazar gets a dam and aquedact system to stop it from getting flooded from the east.
The titans would probably start cleaning up in Storm Peaks.

Dragonblight getting caved in would make a lot of sense with Iridikron around and the zone having all those tunnels underneath it since Dragon Soul.
Could involve the Nerubians too.

Grizzly Hills and Howling Fjord would likely stay mostly the same.

Without the scourge and the plague, Zul'Drak could probably start to heal.
Maybe a new Loa sets up base and is revitalizing the zone.

Borean Tundra could get some climate shake up, or maybe be influenced by Sholazar, or have some titan shenanigan in Coldarra causing some major leylines to pop up and cause havoc.

Yeah, I see 6 distinct zones.

Borean, Caldera and Sholazar combines into one jungle zone with a lot of sholazar being a flooded lake now.

Wintergrasp and Icecrown still snowy but melting.

Storm Peaks mostly melted and lots of titan tech exposed.

Crystalsong tiny zone with the player capital there. Some minor dailies but nothing major. Maybe some underground stuff.

Dragonblight caved in and 80% of the zone is Nerubian now.

Zuldrak, Grizzly Hills, and HF all one zone Lush forrests with troll ruins in the north.

Patch zone 1 is underground Iridikrons lair.

Patch zone 2 is Ulduar and taking the fight to a few Titans with the help of the good titans and keepers. A titan war if you will. Eonar and Sargeras at least along with the Dragonflights, half the keepers, and maybe even the Covenants from Shadowlands helping us to beat Amanthul and Odyn.

Resolution is we stop meddling with Azeroth and let her become what she wants to become. No longer forced to become a titan. Eonar and others against us at the beginning but find out Amanthul also corrupted them as world souls and twisted them into Titans. They deffect and want to allow Azeroth to grow naturally.

We protect Azeroth now from other cosmic threats along with the remaining Titans/keepers, but they no longer try to force her to be a titan.

[Zardas]

TBC is popular, just not as popular as vanilla. Are you implying TBC didn't bring over 1m players back because thats a take for sure lmao.

Do you see a 1m sub spike with the release of TBC classic on the sub curves ? Sub losses are smooth downwards tendencies, while sub gains are generally updwards spikes at major releases. With TBC classic, we just see a steady decline, sure mostly caused by SL, and sure TBC classic likely slowed it down, but it wasn't a huge sub magnet

[Chickat]

Do you see a 1m sub spike with the release of TBC classic on the sub curves ? Sub losses are smooth downwards tendencies, while sub gains are generally updwards spikes at major releases. With TBC classic, we just see a steady decline, sure mostly caused by SL, and sure TBC classic likely slowed it down, but it wasn't a huge sub magnet

We have no way of proving anything. Both of us. IMO 9.1 was so bad WoW lost a ton of subs, but TBC ate those sub losses and added more on top. It could also be that TBC barely moved the needled and SL had stopped bleeding, but we will never know for sure. Im just talking from my personally biased experience. Anyone I knew in SL quit right after 9.1 if they hadn't already quit. Meanwhile I started playing classic in TBC because SL sucked so bad and made tons of friends. Again no proof, but no one has proof just biases.

[Zardas]

We have no way of proving anything. Both of us. IMO 9.1 was so bad WoW lost a ton of subs, but TBC ate those sub losses and added more on top. It could also be that TBC barely moved the needled and SL had stopped bleeding, but we will never know for sure. Im just talking from my personally biased experience. Anyone I knew in SL quit right after 9.1 if they hadn't already quit. Meanwhile I started playing classic in TBC because SL sucked so bad and made tons of friends. Again no proof, but no one has proof just biases.

Well, based on every other experience and basic reasonning, we know that sub decrease are slow and smooth, while sub increase and quick and very specific timely speaking. The curves we have just don't fit the postulat of TBC couterbalancing losses of 9.1, but they do fit the one of TCB classic just not being very popular overall. Of course we don't have definite proof, but nothing is leading us to believe your theory.

[Hitei]

I believe they said Azure Span is possibly the largest zone they've made to date. That might be what you're thinking of.

I don't think they made that claim about TWW zones but I could be wrong. But just looking at a very urban space like Azj-Kahet, I think its very unlikely it will be anything to the scale of DF zones. But even if it was 20% of larger than Suramar, that would be very impressive in my opinion.

I think that Azj-kahet's size is deceptive, because it's roofed in a way similar to the outer parts of Zaralek, it feels more closed off than it actually is. Like I said at the start of this observation, they focused all their screenshots on specific set pieces which makes it feel like zones are only one thing. Almost all of the Azj-kahet pictures are of that central nerubian city, but if you look at the few other ones:




That seems like it might be a pretty significant distance going straight back. The cave nature just makes it hard to tell because there's so few places (outside of Hallowfall) where you get a long straight view deep into a zone.

Especially curious if this thing is to scale:


Cause that's a whole lot of Hallowfall(?) and very little of the top two zones.

[Woggmer]

The choice in bfa made no sense and has no place in wow. In lore, loyalist playable characters should be dead or have left the horde, instead they join Tyrande to help her defend her new tree. It doesn't make sense, hell, not even Sylvannas herself should like the playable loyalist characters as they helped and agreed with her evil self, which she hates (thus the speciall message for loyalists in the undead heritage makes no sense).

You can't be evil just sometimes and then be a hero like everybody else afterwards while helping your former victims for no reason. If they want a villain faction/race, they have to be always evil and have limitations and different quest options for the whole game.

Loyalist choices were a rushed afterthought and the whole horde as playable faction is a mess lorewise thanks to BFA. That's why it's hard for me to play it and stay inmersed in the game world, story and logic.

Because it's a war.. there are no such things as heroes and villains in war there is only what your character believes is right, but Blizzard abandoned that plot to focus on N'zoth and be like "Just kidding, you're all heroes!" which is why I loathed the Amirdrassil stuff because it makes zero sense and the only way it does make sense is because it's tied to the Emerald Dream, so if the Emerald Dream is destroyed, then the whole planet goes with it. (That and they did Smolderon dirty). A lot of it is them trying to recapture the same feeling that Legion had but each time they failed and it blows up in their face because there's no other threat in WoW that's as massive as the Legion except for the Void, (The Mawsworn were close but we never see them attack the living world except for the pre-patch event, everything else was contained in the Shadowlands. It's like if in Legion instead of having it on Azeroth, the entirety of the expansion was spent on Argus and we spent that whole time pushing the Legion back before they could do harm to Azeroth.)

The player character isn't 100% good all the time, they've committed crimes and atrocities before like torturing a guy with a shock wand while a Kirin Tor agent looked the other way, or the time we've falsely surrendered to a bunch of enemy murlocs and killed their leader once we got into enemy lines.. and even going so far as to take pictures of dead Runeforge dwarves for a guy to study them.

A war story can work, but with Blizzard's current team it isn't possible and it'd be easier just to make the player character more like Med'an than a soldier grunt following what they believe in.

- - - Updated - - -

SL had worse writing and the stupid "Jailer was behind everything" + "titan's titans" rehash which made no sense. But I'd say BFA made more lasting damage to the franchise. While SL did do damage, you can ignore that or retcon it more easily than the horde stupid villain batting 2.0 and night elf massacre. At least Kul Tiras had great zones, world building and music, and Zandalar was nice as well.

You can't ignore the Jailer... because no matter how many times they reset the universe, the Jailer will always be there (the only option is to improve him, but even then Shadowlands did way more damage as a whole not just because of the Jailer but because of the way the Afterlife actually works.)

If they reset everything back to Warcraft 1 (like before the Dark Portal opens up) they could make changes and fixes to the Night Elves, the villain batting.. and everything else. What they can't undo is the nature of the Shadowlands itself and the existence of the Zereths and the First Ones.

[Vakir]

I didn't put down Volume 1 of the Chronicle thinking that the Void Loids were next up on the menu. They didn't even sound like that much of a threat in and of themselves. My main takeaway was that any story you told on Azeroth was now important, because it could be argued that it all tied into shaping the consciousness of the world-soul.

I wish I could've had that optimism, but Metzen didn't even play coy - "Haha, perhaps it'll contain even hints at the next threat?? " or some other vaguely worded and coked out hype-manning.

But now it's whatever. Anything and everything can happen, for better or worse, because none of it matters and nothing is codified at all. At least the Zereths are, hopefully, dead and buried as a concept.