The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Lahis]

They have this mobile phone WoW game

That was canceled because Blizz and NetEase/Tencent/whoever they were doing it with couldn't agree on monetization model.

Makes one wonder what the Chinese were pushing when it was too much even for Blizz.

[Skildar]

At the same time, if they come back with Blizzcon after so many years only to reveal a cookie cutter xpac for WoW, a card set for HS, MAYBE an expac for D4 and nothing for the rest of their games they will be a laughing stock.

They already have Arclight Rumble that will be made available shortly after blizzcon if not the next day. Potentially a cinematic trailer for their new survival game. Then they will showcase the pve missions they will add to overwatch 2. And of course whatever expansion they will deliver for WoW in 2024.
This alone will be more exciting than what they've been showing in the preceding blizzcon.

[Nymrohd]

That was canceled because Blizz and NetEase/Tencent/whoever they were doing it with couldn't agree on monetization model.

Makes one wonder what the Chinese were pushing when it was too much even for Blizz.

Are we talking about a different game to Arclight Rumble?

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Are we talking about a different game to Arclight Rumble?

There were some plans for WoW mobile game rumoured but they cancelled it in 2022, at least thats what the reports say.

[Teriz]

Blizzcon is really gonna be a big moment for them, wonder what the betting is they fumble the ball, against them pulling off a blinder?

-New WoW expansion
-10.2 preview
-New HS expansion
-New Overwatch 2 Hero
-New Diablo 4 patch
-Surprise announcement

I think that could be a solid show.

[Super Dickmann]

You know I'd like to say so much more about this BUT this is ENTIRELY a lore discussion and not a future content discussion.

Don't get spooked by the mods. This thread is for shooting the shit, expansion speculation is just a pretext. It's not like this is some bustling hub.

[Nymrohd]

Don't get spooked by the mods. This thread is for shooting the shit, expansion speculation is just a pretext. It's not like this is some bustling hub.

I don't know, this particular mod infracts me all the time so . . .
And it really isn't that related to speculation. I could talk on how the six forces could work philosophically. Imo you need to bring your ideas in the context of the recent revelations, however much people like them or not. And that is, the Six Forces must have some form of instrumentality. They were created by the First Ones as tools (likely to shape the Physical Realm between them). That means that each Force serves a function. Use that as guidance on what they may be meant to do. Imo
Light defines reality. It is the arbiter of Truth. To perceive reality, things must have a form and meaning.
Stasis is not a natural part of Light imo. Rather it is a cultural imperative of the Naaru. Of all the races in WoW the Naaru have the absolute best reason to be scared shitless of injury and death because they become their opposite when that happens and they also destroy everything around them. It's not even them being self-serving, their void state destroys the people they are meant to care for. Which is why I could have seen Light colluding with Death to create Calia but Zovaal's lack of nuance kind of fucked that plot.

Order imposes Structure. It is less about law and more about making certain that the Physical Realm sees progression and develops civilizations. And that is why part of its duty is maintaining the linearity of time. Order is not obsessed with things staying static; it seeks progress and every evolving complexity. Azeroth is an exception though; the Titans (who I do not think are the Pantheon of Order in the same way the Eternals are; rather they are the Pantheon of the Physical realm and they have CHOSEN to ally with Order) want to ensure their sister is born healthy so they have intervened here far more heavily than they did elsewhere.

Fel is probably a disruptor. It keeps the experiment going. It's nature is to upset structure. Imo it is not there to destroy simply for destruction's sake, rather its purpose is to prevent Order from ending up in stagnation.

Void is the Force of Possibility and Revelation. See I will posit something very different to what we see about Void. Void cannot just be about consuming reality. That just makes no sense. If that was its purpose it would not envy the Titans' ability to order the cosmos. It would not be focused on the infinite possible timelines. If all it wants is to eat things then it would behave in a much more reasonable manner. The Void is the potential of the blank canvas. It doesn't destroy reality, it shifts and archives it so a new possibility could happen. What Void consumes doesn't stop existing, it's just somewhere within the Void Plane until all possibility is real.

How this ties to future content would be on what cosmic content could look like.
A) I don't think all the Zereth's are prototyping facilities. Death's unique purpose (to dispose or recyle souls) requires that it constantly expands as a dimension. So what the First Ones needed from it was the ability to prototype new realms and cast them in the In-Between. The other Forces don't really have the same needs so their Zereths likely serve different functions. All of them likely create observation and executive units to keep things running as a secondary purpose but their primary purpose could be very different and that would let them also LOOK different. I'd also think that Death does make sense as the least alien plane because it needs to be familiar to the souls coming from physical reality. It makes sense to visit it. Not sure it makes as much sense to visit Disorder.
b) I think we will see at least Ordos in the future. For me the reason is Azshara. The idea that mighty immortals with all the resources and time in the world did not have the time to gain a greater understanding of the cosmos is ludicrous. If there are indications of the work of the First Ones leftover in some book in Uldaman, Azshara likely knows this. Kil'jaeden probably knew it as well; it is likely his nihilism comes from a deeper understanding of the cosmos similar with Zovaal so he felt Sargeras wiping the board clean is optimal (reminds me a bit of Ishamael from Wheel of Time; if the world keeps existing it just means infinite suffering so better to just end it all). And I think Azshara probably knows enough and has a plan very similar to Zovaal with her "true throne of power" but it will not happen any time soon exactly because the plot would be too damn similar.
As for Elune, I get people want to see more (I wish we had seen less) but the question is WHY? What is the threat? What is the reason going to the plane of Life? Is it a threat to us? Is someone else attacking it (maybe Denathrius?)

With Light we know why they'd attack, it's because Xe'ra is a bitch. It is established she is a bitch, we know her as one and no one will be surprised if we get to kill her.

[Skildar]

Don't get spooked by the mods. This thread is for shooting the shit, expansion speculation is just a pretext. It's not like this is some bustling hub.

for people like nymrhod and yourself who know when to exercise restraint it's mostly ok. But there are quite a number of people that shouldn't be encouraged to let run wild because they're not as apt as you are with this ^^'

[Berkilak]

Plot twist: Neltharion is still alive. Ebyssian is Neltharion (that's the reason why he didnt enter Aberrus saying that the only legacy Neltharion left behind is death and destruction. and that Wrathion and Sabellian should witness it on their own)

Honestly? That would be more in keeping with the schemer we knew as Deathwing than anything WoW has put out related to his character.

[Santandame]

Don't get spooked by the mods. This thread is for shooting the shit, expansion speculation is just a pretext. It's not like this is some bustling hub.

No, this thread is for upcoming content and expansion speculation. That’s what the majority visit it for. Not to read through pages of discussion not pertaining to speculation regarding upcoming content because a small number of forum regulars want to treat it like their own generalised group chat.

You have the lore sub-forum if you want to talk general lore. You have the option to create a discord server if you all want to discuss what you want amongst familiar folk. Keep this thread as what it is supposed to be. All the off-topic rubbish does is put off others from joining in or contributing to the discussion.

[Nymrohd]

They already have Arclight Rumble that will be made available shortly after blizzcon if not the next day. Potentially a cinematic trailer for their new survival game. Then they will showcase the pve missions they will add to overwatch 2. And of course whatever expansion they will deliver for WoW in 2024.
This alone will be more exciting than what they've been showing in the preceding blizzcon.

Did not know Rumble is that advanced. Doubt it will generate much excitement among the Blizzcon crowd but definitely would be of interest to investors. A cinematic trailer doesn't do much for me at least for their Survival game. I don't think gamers in general have trust in Blizzard to deliver what they show anymore (especially not after OW2 debacle).

[Super Dickmann]

And it really isn't that related to speculation. I could talk on how the six forces could work philosophically. Imo you need to bring your ideas in the context of the recent revelations, however much people like them or not. And that is, the Six Forces must have some form of instrumentality. They were created by the First Ones as tools (likely to shape the Physical Realm between them). That means that each Force serves a function. Use that as guidance on what they may be meant to do. Imo

This is a good way to look into it, but past the lens of the current writing direction, you also have to take into account their general associated tropes and baggage. While the writers don't take the letter of prior lore to it, the visual language and vibe are things they are fairly attached to. It's why I think it was a good move by them, when broadening the Void, to also broaden the visuals attached to it. See Sarkareth's more starry cold aesthetic compared to the Lovecraft Lite-inspired earlier bits we've seen. Still recognizable as belonging to the same thing, but different enough to do it. Same with how the Sha, probably the first sop to the void as feeding off of and representing particular personality aspects and not just generic madness, were tied in with their own appearance.

In that vein, and hitting on what @Sondrelk brought up I agree entirely with you that the whole crystallization business and the aversion to death can just as well be a Naaru expression of the Light, like how N'zoth, the Sha and now the cosmic void have different looks and different means of operating. But all of them aim to fill space and spead out, whereas none of the Light really does. The Army of the Light didn't proactively convert worlds to turn them into advance outposts in their war, let alone go out to unrelated worlds to spread. On the contary, its broader cosmic conceit as being the delineating line of reality, indicating which of the many possibilities presented by its opposite should be followed extends also to its lower order appearance. It serves to impose reason and moral guidance on things that are already there and slot their expression through that prism. This is also why one of the first bits of more interesting Warcraft Light tidibts, i.e that anyone with sufficient conviction can use it, no matter what that conviction is, continues to fit well.

[Shadowferal]

. Stasis is not a natural part of Light imo.

Stasis is all about achieved perfection, which is what Order perceives. Stagnation in inevitable since no progress is needed then. Progress is a movement that is defined by imbalance.

If Yrel is indeed involved here, then I should hope for some sort of epiphany regarding that which is "perfect," which has always been in front of her this whole time.

[Ielenia]

Not to bring RL shit into this, but that's actually a method of oppression, saying "don't fight back", "stop resisting", "just be normal (=like us)" and ordering "offering" magical conversion therapy.

Not saying you're wrong, but it does put the offers to stop fighting in context when the other side goes "I'll use your skull as decoration" and "join me or die".

[Skildar]

Did not know Rumble is that advanced. Doubt it will generate much excitement among the Blizzcon crowd but definitely would be of interest to investors. A cinematic trailer doesn't do much for me at least for their Survival game. I don't think gamers in general have trust in Blizzard to deliver what they show anymore (especially not after OW2 debacle).

Definitely true, I've lost trust in this company since they gave up on Heroes of the Storm. Since that point it has been a drama show without end.

For Arclight Rumble I seem to remember that in their quarterly earning results they've stated for almost a year that Arclight Rumble is progressing in regional testing. So I expect them to push the game communication for a release close to this blizzcon rather than one that will be overshadowed by the release of wow 10th expansion.

[Nymrohd]

Stasis is all about achieved perfection, which is what Order perceives. Stagnation in inevitable since no progress is needed then. Progress is a movement that is defined by imbalance.

If Yrel is indeed involved here, then I should hope for some sort of epiphany regarding that which is "perfect," which has always been in front of her this whole time.

See, I don't think Order wants perfection. Aggramar did not order Draenor. He just made sure it had potential to move forward and not collapse on itself. The way the Pantheon acted on Azeroth is not indicative of their overall directive. They just discovered a new member of the family. They know how they were born. They wanted to make things perfect just like any one of us would for a newborn.

[Shadowferal]

See, I don't think Order wants perfection. Aggramar did not order Draenor. He just made sure it had potential to move forward and not collapse on itself. The way the Pantheon acted on Azeroth is not indicative of their overall directive. They just discovered a new member of the family. They know how they were born. They wanted to make things perfect just like any one of us would for a newborn.

To make perfect...needs a perceived imperfection.

[Lahis]

Are we talking about a different game to Arclight Rumble?

There was mobile Warcraft MMO In works in China.

[Nymrohd]

To make perfect...needs a perceived imperfection.

Not really. You just want ideal conditions for the expecting planet so to speak. Who knows how messy a Titan birth might be. Why not help the process along. Think of how much we do to help a pregnancy. We pay attention to what we eat. Many sing to a baby or let it listen calming music. We all treat the mother differently to keep her blood pressure from going up. Those are not automatic. The Titans of the Pantheon were all born without some cosmic midwife. Suddenly they had the chance to make things better for one of their own. Why would they not do everything in their power to help?

It's why I speculate that there must be a Forge or facility somewhere on Azeroth whose express purpose is to help with the moment of birth. And maybe that facility is in Avaloren!
I keep trying to link it to speculation but no one bites . . .

[Shadowferal]

Not really.

Without duality, there's no reason for being. (Which imo again plays into the Yrel delusion for what in fact is another form of nihilism)