The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

I only want new shamans, druids and paladins if they come with the unique lore and models they historically always have. I do not want a uni-shaman "primalist" background and totem for all new shamans just like I don't want all paladins to ride on a single new horse and have tutelage from Tyr. I do not want Gnome Druids if they only use generic druid forms that are shared with Orcs Druids.

And no, Blizzard does not have the capability to balance their new work load with a new mount for every single new paladin.

[Makorus]

Circumstance and opportunity. You don't wake up and become a druid. You will need to be taught which requires a willing teacher and it likely takes time. You will also need to find willing Wild Gods to help attune you to the forms.

Sure, but we have Druids training non-Druidic races in Emerald Dream right now. We have non-Shaman races who are Shaman right now, and non-Paladin races who are Paladins right now.

All three classes have got an angle that allows all races to become that class: Paladins through the new Order of Tyr. Druids through Amirdrassil. Shamans through Primalists atoning and using their powers for good.


- - - Updated - - -

I only want new shamans, druids and paladins if they come with the unique lore and models they historically always have. I do not want a uni-shaman "primalist" background and totem for all new shamans just like I don't want all paladins to ride on a single new horse and have tutelage from Tyr. I do not want Gnome Druids if they only use generic druid forms that are shared with Orcs Druids.

And no, Blizzard does not have the capability to balance their new work load with a new mount for every single new paladin.

I mean, the only classes that aren't all-race yet are the ones that require unique art assets. Go figure.

[Cheezits]

I mean, the only classes that aren't all-race yet are the ones that require unique art assets. Go figure.

Right. And the unique assets and lore have made them really cool forever so I hope they don't break that, or they delay it to when they have unique assets ready for everyone in a mega patch or expansion launch.

Warlocks made no sense to be delayed forever because it was ONLY lore gating them, and that is flimsy at best, as no (playable) race has a hivemind that disallows a character from wanting to use fel powers.

[Makorus]

Right. And the unique assets and lore have made them really cool forever so I hope they don't break that, or they delay it to when they have unique assets ready for everyone in a mega patch or expansion launch.

Warlocks made no sense to be delayed forever because it was ONLY lore gating them, and that is flimsy at best, as no (playable) race has a hivemind that disallows a character from wanting to use fel powers.

I mean, yeah, my point is that they are definitely making unique art assets for them or else they would have released them when it was more appropriate (Druids in 10.2.5/Paladins for the conclusion of the Tyr storyline).

[milkmustache]

So if Eternus is tied to the MoP Remix, what are the possibilities Xal is as well? Moreso, is this going to be tied into Dragonflight only with the Bronze/Infinite timetravel ability, or is this going to be tied into TWW and The Worldsoul Saga?

Either way... kinda mega cool idea. This is going to be a lot of fun. Can't wait for the inevitable pre-Midnight Legion Timerunning.

Only complaint.. not a fan of the name Remix. Such a small complaint in the grand scheme.

[Makorus]

So if Eternus is tied to the MoP Remix, what are the possibilities Xal is as well? Moreso, is this going to be tied into Dragonflight only with the Bronze/Infinite timetravel ability, or is this going to be tied into TWW and The Worldsoul Saga?

Either way... kinda mega cool idea. This is going to be a lot of fun. Can't wait for the inevitable pre-Midnight Legion Timerunning.

Only complaint.. not a fan of the name Remix. Such a small complaint in the grand scheme.

The theory is that the lore reason for the Remix is that we are trying to stop Xal from taking Y'shaarjs essence. She is in SoD, because she is gonna take C'thuns essence, she took N'zoths essence through the dagger stab, and Iridikron stole Yoggs essence through Galakrond.

Makes a lot of sense to me and seems a cool way to tie seemingly non-canon things into the canon.

[Cheezits]

The theory is that the lore reason for the Remix is that we are trying to stop Xal from taking Y'shaarjs essence. She is in SoD, because she is gonna take C'thuns essence, she took N'zoths essence through the dagger stab, and Iridikron stole Yoggs essence through Galakrond.

Makes a lot of sense to me and seems a cool way to tie seemingly non-canon things into the canon.

I wonder when they are going to confirm the Yogg/Galakrond thing ingame, outside of the easily missable lore book. I don't think it was ever stated outright by any NPC (and DF is pretty anti-old lore for the sake of new players).

[Dracullus]

It really is genius move if SoD is connected to Xal geting C'Thun power and Pandamonium to Y'shaarj. But I wonder, what happened to dagger that must have some remnant of N'zoth power (or even N'zoth trapped like Xal before)? I guess Wrathion should have it or at least know where he drop it.

[Cheezits]

It really is genius move if SoD is connected to Xal geting C'Thun power and Pandamonium to Y'shaarj. But I wonder, what happened to dagger that must have some remnant of N'zoth power (or even N'zoth trapped like Xal before)? I guess Wrathion should have it or at least know where he drop it.

It disappeared after Wrathion hit the carapace with it. Considering the camera lingered on N'zoth juice going into the dagger, it was likely intended to be a macguffin.

My personal favorite theory is that they are going to do a reverse-Xal'atath where N'zoth is in the dagger now and we work with him to take down Xal (maybe we steal the dagger in TWW?)

[Murlocos]

I still disagree that we need some elaborate intricate story for every race/class combination. Yeah, certainly, some need an explanation like Lightforged Warlock (which we did get) or Undead Paladins, but did Night Elf Warlocks need an explanation? We literally had them beforehand. Nothing is preventing a Night Elf from becoming a Warlock, so why is it so unreasonable to think that some of them become just that? Why is it so unreasonable that there are Gnome Shamans? They've been living with the Dwarves for decades now, and mingled with all the other shamanistic races. There's nothing preventing Gnomes inherently from becoming Shamans.

It's incredibly cringe to use that term to describe a fantasy race, but the only thing stopping Shaman/Druids/Paladins for all races are stereotypes.

I'll give two reasons: story precedent for the faith-based classes and the unique cosmetics that come with them.

Blizzard has demonstrated attempts to showcase the diversity of paladins and priests as far back as vanilla. Priests had different racial abilities to showcase their differing faiths, when new paladins were introduced they were given lore to show how they weren't just interchangeable with Silver Hand paladins. Warlocks differ in this respect because their power source is universal: I think it's neat to play with how different races approach it, but they're ultimately all drawing power from demons and fel magic. A Sunwalker is not the same as a paladin of the Light is not the same as a Prelate of Rezan, and while game mechanics dictate they operate the same, Blizzard has constantly made efforts to differentiate them in the lore.

This has been acknowledged as recently as last year, when they added orc priest NPCs to Orgrimmar and they were originally just orcs in human clothing with names like Brother Shineblade. People rightfully pointed out how boring and lame this was, and they responded by completely changing them to be more orcish and writing new lore tying them to Nagrand and Oshu'gun. That stuff is cool! It makes the world feel more fleshed out and it's such little effort to dress up a few NPCs and write a few paragraphs of dialogue for them.

Druids aren't terribly different in that respect even if the current obsession with night elves keeps them closely chained to that specific racial fantasy. You have stuff like the harvest witches or the troll loa worship that differentiate them from the night elves. Wouldn't it be cool to see the unique way other races explored their ties to and worship of nature and the elements? That'd be so nice compared to like 16 instances of them all just being Cenarion students.

That's why the Tyr's Guard is so profoundly uninteresting, because they're all a bunch of different races that all act, dress and talk exactly the same. It's why the idea of all new shaman races being associated with Primalists in any way is so boring, because they're a total asspull of a villain faction with nothing distinctive about them except a slavish adherence to a 20,000 year old dragon grudge that they gave up after thinking about it for about 10 seconds. There's little enjoyable fantasy in these new groups because they're so one-dimensional.

Cheezits mostly covered the cosmetics point, but the fear is exactly that just going "oh they're all Tyr's Guard/Primalists/whatever" is what will lead to them missing the appeal of the classes in the first place. Nobody wants to see a paladins for all races headline and then see every new race just rides an Order Horse or whatever, nobody wants to see druids for all races and then see every new race just gets to share 5 new generic forms because "oh they were all taught the same way at Bel'ameth". That's why I at least don't like the idea of generic new lore to standardize these new race/class combos, because it suggests they'd want to do it by performing a quintessentially Blizzard blunder of answering popular fan requests but doing so in a way that totally misses the point of why people wanted it.

I know this is a long rant but I want to genuinely make the case for why this stuff matters rather than just rebuke. I'm not accusing you of it, but I've seen other people really push back against all of this and the argument seems to be that Blizzard should actively regress the depth and scope of how they handle worldbuilding compared to the past, and they should do it because it's not fair to expect Blizzard to care about anything that isn't humans, night elves, or cosmology charts. I can't understand it as anything but a reflexive lashing out at anyone that has any expectations for the game and doesn't just clap at anything Blizzard puts out.

[Nymrohd]

It disappeared after Wrathion hit the carapace with it. Considering the camera lingered on N'zoth juice going into the dagger, it was likely intended to be a macguffin.

My personal favorite theory is that they are going to do a reverse-Xal'atath where N'zoth is in the dagger now and we work with him to take down Xal (maybe we steal the dagger in TWW?)

I would fully expect Azshara to be waiting around in the Void and just snatch it while we went inside to fight N'zoth.

[Khaza-R]

It disappeared after Wrathion hit the carapace with it. Considering the camera lingered on N'zoth juice going into the dagger, it was likely intended to be a macguffin.

My personal favorite theory is that they are going to do a reverse-Xal'atath where N'zoth is in the dagger now and we work with him to take down Xal (maybe we steal the dagger in TWW?)

I wouldn't be surprised if we see all the Old Gods return. At least in as essences in new weapons that talk to you.

It would be a cool way to interact with them again. And that would still leave Yogg.

[Cheezits]

I would fully expect Azshara to be waiting around in the Void and just snatch it while we went inside to fight N'zoth.

Azshara having the dagger and a chunk of N'zoth around to torture as revenge for their previous engagement would make a lot of sense thematically.

This is a crack shot, but if playable Naga are going to happen, maybe it has something to do with N'zoth starting a rebellion? "You should go join the factions they are very strong" etc

[milkmustache]

I wouldn't be surprised if we see all the Old Gods return. At least in as essences in new weapons that talk to you.

It would be a cool way to interact with them again. And that would still leave Yogg.

I'm curious if we'll see the Old Gods return, or somerthing in a new form. They seem to be slowly separating the void vibe from old god lovecraftian to more cosmic.

[Cheezits]

I'm curious if we'll see the Old Gods return, or somerthing in a new form. They seem to be slowly separating the void vibe from old god lovecraftian to more cosmic.

I think the idea is to separate the Old Gods of Azeroth/Black Empire and the Void Lords because the former have been so played out in WoW's lifetime. They will just say the Old Gods made their own culture and it's not 1:1 with how the Void looks and acts.

Like even if we get more Aqir stuff, like Nerubians, and Azshara and the Naga, they won't be the primary villains.

[Ersula]

We had both blood and high elfs in the rift since void elfs became playable.

You mean Void elves that just look like blood elves. In other instances where players ventured into un-protected riftspace we are shown a light-user using holy magic creating a habitable environment, like Turalyon. Void elves don't do that in their personal rift no other player race can access.

https://twitter.com/TheWindstalker/s...28128579346826

More stuff coming

She's says stuff like this so constantly for all we know she means 11.0

Alleria and Turalyom have been married for millennia. It's time to spice up the bedroom a bit with an extra participant. Alleria is just getting ready for her night out at the bars scouting.

Turalyon, like all handsome elderly men, also looks like a butch lesbian. So that checks out.

[Makorus]

I'll give two reasons: story precedent for the faith-based classes and the unique cosmetics that come with them.

Blizzard has demonstrated attempts to showcase the diversity of paladins and priests as far back as vanilla. Priests had different racial abilities to showcase their differing faiths, when new paladins were introduced they were given lore to show how they weren't just interchangeable with Silver Hand paladins. Warlocks differ in this respect because their power source is universal: I think it's neat to play with how different races approach it, but they're ultimately all drawing power from demons and fel magic. A Sunwalker is not the same as a paladin of the Light is not the same as a Prelate of Rezan, and while game mechanics dictate they operate the same, Blizzard has constantly made efforts to differentiate them in the lore.

This has been acknowledged as recently as last year, when they added orc priest NPCs to Orgrimmar and they were originally just orcs in human clothing with names like Brother Shineblade. People rightfully pointed out how boring and lame this was, and they responded by completely changing them to be more orcish and writing new lore tying them to Nagrand and Oshu'gun. That stuff is cool! It makes the world feel more fleshed out and it's such little effort to dress up a few NPCs and write a few paragraphs of dialogue for them.

Druids aren't terribly different in that respect even if the current obsession with night elves keeps them closely chained to that specific racial fantasy. You have stuff like the harvest witches or the troll loa worship that differentiate them from the night elves. Wouldn't it be cool to see the unique way other races explored their ties to and worship of nature and the elements? That'd be so nice compared to like 16 instances of them all just being Cenarion students.

That's why the Tyr's Guard is so profoundly uninteresting, because they're all a bunch of different races that all act, dress and talk exactly the same. It's why the idea of all new shaman races being associated with Primalists in any way is so boring, because they're a total asspull of a villain faction with nothing distinctive about them except a slavish adherence to a 20,000 year old dragon grudge that they gave up after thinking about it for about 10 seconds. There's little enjoyable fantasy in these new groups because they're so one-dimensional.

Cheezits mostly covered the cosmetics point, but the fear is exactly that just going "oh they're all Tyr's Guard/Primalists/whatever" is what will lead to them missing the appeal of the classes in the first place. Nobody wants to see a paladins for all races headline and then see every new race just rides an Order Horse or whatever, nobody wants to see druids for all races and then see every new race just gets to share 5 new generic forms because "oh they were all taught the same way at Bel'ameth". That's why I at least don't like the idea of generic new lore to standardize these new race/class combos, because it suggests they'd want to do it by performing a quintessentially Blizzard blunder of answering popular fan requests but doing so in a way that totally misses the point of why people wanted it.

I know this is a long rant but I want to genuinely make the case for why this stuff matters rather than just rebuke. I'm not accusing you of it, but I've seen other people really push back against all of this and the argument seems to be that Blizzard should actively regress the depth and scope of how they handle worldbuilding compared to the past, and they should do it because it's not fair to expect Blizzard to care about anything that isn't humans, night elves, or cosmology charts. I can't understand it as anything but a reflexive lashing out at anyone that has any expectations for the game and doesn't just clap at anything Blizzard puts out.

Ideally, yeah, in terms of Druids/Paladins, each race should ideally have their own unique flavour, but realistically, what's the point?

Outside of the unique forms (which, don't get me wrong, I would still want them to have, and for Paladins to have unique mounts and Shamans to have unique totems), how relevant is the Wicker lore of the Kul'tirans? How relevant is the Sunwalker lore? How relevant is the Orc Priest lore? How relevant is Priestess of the Moon lore?

WoWs lore is too bloated as is, and introducing unique and cool reasons for classes is nice and all, but it just makes it way, way harder to write satisfying stories.

You already get it with stuff like the Emerald Dream, an uniquely Druidy experience. But oh wait, not all Druids work that way. So you either alienate half the playerbase, and make it "Night-Elf-Druid-flavoured" (which is, lets be honest, the "default") or you bloat it up by adding representation for all kinds of Druidism, but you have to make sure that everything is evenly represented or your local Troll Twitter User is gonna put you on blast for being biased.

Imagine a Light vs Void expansion, but somehow they need to make sure that every single source of Faith is represented and has a reason to fight, and it just turns into a big mess imo.

I understand the Orc Priest thing, it was a stupid way of doing it, but I honestly don't see the issues of certain races learning from other races they spend time with.
Why do Draenei need some super secret unknown sect of Druids, instead of the lore just stating that they've picked up Druidism from the Night Elves?

[Xilurm]

It looks like they've decided to attract the feet crowd with TWW it seems. Ah well, business is business.

[Sondrelk]

It looks like they've decided to attract the feet crowd with TWW it seems. Ah well, business is business.

They're hoping to attract Tarantino for their next Warcraft movie.

[Kiivar86]

Hm, interesting. The Alliance wolf mounts have Night Elven aesthetic armor. That's curious.