The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Chickat]

My biggest fear with TLT is they are going to think just naturally progressing Northrend is too boring and decide to Cataclysm it.

And with Metzen back at the helm, I think its a very possible reality. I don't want to see Icecrown turned into a volcano or Grizzley Hills as desert because its "cool".

It makes perfect sense though. Cata shaped the whole world. Sholozar could be a small underwater zone. Icecrown could have melted into it. Lots of cool stuff. It wont stay the same so thats just wishful thinking on your part.

[Makorus]

My biggest fear with TLT is they are going to think just naturally progressing Northrend is too boring and decide to Cataclysm it.

And with Metzen back at the helm, I think its a very possible reality. I don't want to see Icecrown turned into a volcano or Grizzley Hills as desert because its "cool".

Likewise, not making major changes to Northrend would be incredibly, incredibly lazy, especially how this would be the second expansion with just recycled locations.

[Sondrelk]

Which rules out Icecrown on account of it not being a mountain.

It's a mountain relative to its surroundings. Glaciers are effectively frozen rivers flowing very slowly downwards, and Icecrown is a giant glacier flowing down into Crystalsong and Scholazar

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-snip-

I do have a pet theory that the Dragon Isles were meant to be west of Northrend, rather than east. And that they changed this during development for some reason.
It makes more sense in terms of proximity to the Nexus in Boreal Tundra, as well as Centuar migration from Kalimdor.

Maybe this passage in the book is an artifact of that.

[Makabreska]

My biggest fear with TLT is they are going to think just naturally progressing Northrend is too boring and decide to Cataclysm it.

And with Metzen back at the helm, I think its a very possible reality. I don't want to see Icecrown turned into a volcano or Grizzley Hills as desert because its "cool".

There have to be big changes to the zone from the start, because going to the old Northrend will be just boring and unappealing. This place will be roughly 20y old by the time TLT arrives.

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Likewise, not making major changes to Northrend would be incredibly, incredibly lazy, especially how this would be the second expansion with just recycled locations.

How much recycled Midnight gonna be, it remains to be seen. Quel'Thalas itself is too small to support a standard, 4 zones launch, and places like Ghostlands I expect will finally receive a de-undeadification (so a full rework).

[Nymrohd]

Which rules out Icecrown on account of it not being a mountain.

I'd say that Icecrown is a collection of glaciers. There is a massive valley glacier going through the mountain range as well valley glaciers at different levels notably Sindragosa's Fall but also the area around the weeping quarry, but the zone is surrounded by a mountain range, not by glacial ice. I'd say it is a huge valley depression of the eastward extension of the Storm peaks with Ymirheim's mountain area peaking through. You can see that because the mountain areas of Icecrown have specifically been textures to look like stone while the glacier areas look like packed ice.


On whether Iridikron's lair could be below Icecrown, we know there is a cavern system that links the area below the Tournament as well as areas below Ymirheim and Icecrown. The fact that the Forge of Souls is beneath Icecrown CItadel is irrelevant; that was built recently and could in fact have been built IN the area of his lair utilizing the existing cavern (which means Iridikron could repurpose it!). And while Nerubians control much of this area, Iridikron definitely had the power to contest part of it from them. Plus the area beneath Storm Peaks is pretty much filled with Titan machinery with locations like Uldis and the Engine of the Makers.

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On how Northrend might be changed; I think some zones should largely stay the same. I expect Storm Peaks to be massively different with the Keepers having cleaned up the frost covering their machinery and digging out their individual temples. Dragonblight should be completely changed after the attack by Deathwing and N'zoth. I'd assume Freya has fully restored Sholazar and the Lifeblood Pillar. I am not sure Zul'drak should be significantly changed given the Drakkari are largely extinct; I do expect Talanji to have a questline there about either restoring the area under troll power or at least have Zandalari there salvaging artifacts and offering sanctuary to the loa.
I don't know if I'd want to see a melted Icecrown.

I'd assume that Northrend would maybe be scaled up slightly and likely have multiple zones joined. I'd expect four aboveground zones made from the existing zones plus one underground zone.

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How much recycled Midnight gonna be, it remains to be seen. Quel'Thalas itself is too small to support a standard, 4 zones launch, and places like Ghostlands I expect will finally receive a de-undeadification (so a full rework).

I think this is the big question for Midnight. It could be scaled up into a proper expansion but if they do that, they have to keep it separate from the rest of EK. But if they do not scale it up, they would end up using multiple EK areas revamped as well which would instantly makes it much less of a Quel'thalas expansion.
One idea I have is that perhaps the entire expansion area is separate from Azeroth because whatever happens has partially phased it into the Void.

[Sondrelk]

I'd say that Icecrown is a collection of glaciers. There is a massive valley glacier going through the mountain range as well valley glaciers at different levels notably Sindragosa's Fall but also the area around the weeping quarry, but the zone is surrounded by a mountain range, not by glacial ice. I'd say it is a huge valley depression of the eastward extension of the Storm peaks with Ymirheim's mountain area peaking through. You can see that because the mountain areas of Icecrown have specifically been textures to look like stone while the glacier areas look like packed ice.


On whether Iridikron's lair could be below Icecrown, we know there is a cavern system that links the area below the Tournament as well as areas below Ymirheim and Icecrown. The fact that the Forge of Souls is beneath Icecrown CItadel is irrelevant; that was built recently and could in fact have been built IN the area of his lair utilizing the existing cavern (which means Iridikron could repurpose it!). And while Nerubians control much of this area, Iridikron definitely had the power to contest part of it from them. Plus the area beneath Storm Peaks is pretty much filled with Titan machinery with locations like Uldis and the Engine of the Makers.

- - - Updated - - -

On how Northrend might be changed; I think some zones should largely stay the same. I expect Storm Peaks to be massively different with the Keepers having cleaned up the frost covering their machinery and digging out their individual temples. Dragonblight should be completely changed after the attack by Deathwing and N'zoth. I'd assume Freya has fully restored Sholazar and the Lifeblood Pillar. I am not sure Zul'drak should be significantly changed given the Drakkari are largely extinct; I do expect Talanji to have a questline there about either restoring the area under troll power or at least have Zandalari there salvaging artifacts and offering sanctuary to the loa.
I don't know if I'd want to see a melted Icecrown.

I'd assume that Northrend would maybe be scaled up slightly and likely have multiple zones joined. I'd expect four aboveground zones made from the existing zones plus one underground zone.

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I think this is the big question for Midnight. It could be scaled up into a proper expansion but if they do that, they have to keep it separate from the rest of EK. But if they do not scale it up, they would end up using multiple EK areas revamped as well which would instantly makes it much less of a Quel'thalas expansion.
One idea I have is that perhaps the entire expansion area is separate from Azeroth because whatever happens has partially phased it into the Void.

Another place it could be is Wintergrasp.
I doubt they will remake it as a PvP zone, and the area is generally pretty boring without that aspect, so maybe it collapses into Harrowsdeep.

[Woggmer]

I believe that's actually exactly why people have identified it as being underneath Icecrown, with the idea being that the Nerubians and Faceless Ones infested the existing lair.

Storm Peaks is possible but I'm not sure there are any mountains that aren't full of titan machinery. Harrowsdeep was turned into a massive trembling volcano that would've destroyed any titan machinery near it, but I guess it's possible they were rebuilt after the fact. We don't really have a good timeline for when the Keepers became more stagnant.

But there's a line in the book that says Alexstrasza was flying over a tundra which lay between Harrowsdeep and the Broodlands. The Broodlands is the Dragon Isles, and the only tundra we know of in Northrend is the Borean Tundra, which would mean that Harrowsdeep is either Hyjal (being currently the largest mountain in its range) or somewhere that was sunken in the Sundering. My money is on it having been somewhere that was sunken in the Sundering and Iridrikron will raise it from the ocean west of Northrend. It's described as being particularly large and could easily serve as an entire zone.

At the end of the day, though, the Sundering is such a wildcard that any number of things might've happened to Northrend to skew the landscape. They could put it pretty much anywhere reasonably around Northrend and claim there used to be a tundra between it and the Dragon Isles.

It also doesn't help that if it'll be like Midnight, they can just add new areas to already existing zones and expand them further. (They even said in interviews that they'll give the zone designers free reign when it comes to Quel'thalas)

"We’re giving our world builders some free rein to expand. Those areas may be geographically larger than they were. That’ll give them more opportunities to introduce some of the smaller points of interest where you’ll have a culture or a local tribe and give them the ability to have storylines that center on that. We don’t want people to feel like, oh, wait a minute, it’s that same place I know. It’s gonna feel like the same place; it’s just that it is literally going to be a little bit larger than what you’ve experienced. Flight being much more accessible, we need to have a larger landmass for people to be able to explore.” --- John Hight. Source

[Auxis]

I wonder if there would be any intersection between Harrowsdeep, the northern reaches of Azjol-Nerub, and Yogg-Saron's body (if it still exists in reality after imprisonment, vaguely unclear on what happened to their mass)?

[Woggmer]

I wonder if there would be any intersection between Harrowsdeep, the northern reaches of Azjol-Nerub, and Yogg-Saron's body (if it still exists in reality after imprisonment, vaguely unclear on what happened to their mass)?

Honestly, it's kind of a back and forth of "Is he still alive or not?"

In Legion, Brann and Khadgar meet wth Magni in Ulduar and they get attacked by Faceless from an unknown voice, which could be Yogg-Saron's. But in BFA after we beat N'zoth, Magni declares that we freed Azeroth from the grasp of the Old Gods... BUT in Exploring Northrend, Muradin says that Yogg is defeated but his influence still lingers and that his whispers can still be heard across Northrend and Ulduar and that he still remains imprisoned inside Ulduar with his influence contained..

Honestly, they could probably bring him back for all we know since we didn't actually "destroy" him unlike what happened to C'thun and N'zoth.

[Nymrohd]

Honestly, it's kind of a back and forth of "Is he still alive or not?"

In Legion, Brann and Khadgar meet wth Magni in Ulduar and they get attacked by Faceless from an unknown voice, which could be Yogg-Saron's. But in BFA after we beat N'zoth, Magni declares that we freed Azeroth from the grasp of the Old Gods... BUT in Exploring Northrend, Muradin says that Yogg is defeated but his influence still lingers and that his whispers can still be heard across Northrend and Ulduar and that he still remains imprisoned inside Ulduar with his influence contained..

Honestly, they could probably bring him back for all we know since we didn't actually "destroy" him unlike what happened to C'thun and N'zoth.

Whether he is alive or not, his mass should still be present in some shape or form. Old Gods were massive. E.g. I always assumed that the silithid colonies are just parts of C'thun's body.

[Varodoc]

Honestly, it's kind of a back and forth of "Is he still alive or not?"

In Legion, Brann and Khadgar meet wth Magni in Ulduar and they get attacked by Faceless from an unknown voice, which could be Yogg-Saron's. But in BFA after we beat N'zoth, Magni declares that we freed Azeroth from the grasp of the Old Gods... BUT in Exploring Northrend, Muradin says that Yogg is defeated but his influence still lingers and that his whispers can still be heard across Northrend and Ulduar and that he still remains imprisoned inside Ulduar with his influence contained..

Honestly, they could probably bring him back for all we know since we didn't actually "destroy" him unlike what happened to C'thun and N'zoth.

Why would you believe anything Magni says? Hasn't he already proven that he is a clown? We don't even know if he was listening to Azeroth or something else for the entire time.

Besides, Old Gods are like ghosts. Even if you kill their bodies, they still haunt the living world. It's pretty obvious that Yogg-Saron will still be a presence in TLT.

[Makorus]

Honestly, it's kind of a back and forth of "Is he still alive or not?"

In Legion, Brann and Khadgar meet wth Magni in Ulduar and they get attacked by Faceless from an unknown voice, which could be Yogg-Saron's. But in BFA after we beat N'zoth, Magni declares that we freed Azeroth from the grasp of the Old Gods... BUT in Exploring Northrend, Muradin says that Yogg is defeated but his influence still lingers and that his whispers can still be heard across Northrend and Ulduar and that he still remains imprisoned inside Ulduar with his influence contained..

Honestly, they could probably bring him back for all we know since we didn't actually "destroy" him unlike what happened to C'thun and N'zoth.

I dont know how people say "it's kind of a back and forth" when Blizzard outright stated he, along with all the other Old Gods, like it was stated in the game over and over again, is dead at Blizzcon? Like, what will it take to dispell that headcanon?
Yeah, his influence still lingers, just like Y'shaarjs influence still lingered, and are you honestly gonna tell me he was still alive after the Titans fucked him up?

And yeah, they can bring them back, I am not saying they can't. Blizzard can bring any dead character back, they could bring Garrosh or Arthas back.

[Worldshaper]

I think Maria Hamilton, on the What's Next panel, suggested that the Nerubians are harvesting the black blood of the Old Gods. I guess that implies:

1. It's the blood of all of them, not just one
2. They were so massive, they likely covered large areas underneath the surface of the planet (although, interestingly, the hole left behind when Aman'Thul pulled out Y'shaarj wasn't that big... unless his body was positioned in a diagonal line from the surface to the core, or something, which could explain why so much Azerite came out)
3. They're definitely dead (didn't Terran Gregory say this at BlizzCon?)

[Nathanyel]

Best case, Quel'thalas and Northrend will be completely created anew, similar to Draenor, while the old versions remain available via Zidormi or (time) portals, so that the old quests etc. are preserved.

That allows for sweeping changes to the landscape that might not work with simply phasing, no old NPCs standing around.


Quel'thalas zones will definitely be changed and likely enlarged per that mentioned interview. Quel'Danas will be moved closer to the mainland, about the distance of the Forbidden Reach to the Dragon Isles.

For TLT's Northrend:

• merge Borean Tundra with Sholazar
• Wintergrasp is now a subzone of Dragonblight, which could use a new name anyway
• Storm Peaks is extended by an overworld version of Ulduar, maybe that's the main hub city, depending on our standing with the Keepers at the time
• Howling Fjord, Grizzly Hills and Zul'Drak would need relevance for the plot to justify not merging them into one zone
• plus of course new areas like Harrowsdeep or Azjol'Nerub

[Lahis]

So according to the PTR, the fall of Theramore pre-patch toy is fair game to return, but not the Kor'kron War Wolf from SoO?

Seems a bit arbitrary to declare one fair game and the other something that is absolutely not returning.

But muh raid prestige for clearing hard content!

[Hyrja]

Stop crying guys, you'll never use the mount anyways.
I got it in mop and maybe use it once every few years.

[Civciv]

Stop crying guys, you'll never use the mount anyways.
I got it in mop and maybe use it once every few years.

Nah, I will.

[Foolicious]

So apparently some of the achievements grant recolours of the three piece class set plus weapons that were in the trading post a few months ago.

Most notably the red mage set. Really did not expect them to give us kael'thas transmog that soon.

[Nymrohd]

So apparently some of the achievements grant recolours of the three piece class set plus weapons that were in the trading post a few months ago.

Most notably the red mage set. Really did not expect them to give us kael'thas transmog that soon.

Not achievements. You just buy them from the vendor for Bronze.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Not achievements. You just buy them from the vendor for Bronze.

Just checked and you need landfall achievement or isle of thunder that has few achievements under it plus bronze amount required after you done achievements to buy it.