The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

It's also suuuper awkward to see modern day quest writers casually gloss over the fact that Malygos kept four female dragons as his baby-making machines, given how they're usually so eager to remove anything which is remotely offensive from the game these days.

Alexstrasza & Sabellian both have a harem. That's normal for dragons. But what is bothering people is the quest treats Malygos' "madness" as something completely outside of his character, like Sindragosa turning undead. Without further exposition they don't explain why is Malygos's villain arc something that doesn't reflect on his character, but for Neltharian, it absolutely does: Both in 10.1's questchains and the characterization of his Simulacrum in the raid.

[huth]

Theres one in Winterspring since classic that never had any relevance in the story and sindragosa. Nothing indicates that they have been used as breeding machines though. Its only Keristrasza that is abused by Malygos.

And Keri was well after he went off the deep end.

Other than that, Polyamory is simply normal among dragons.

[Super Dickmann]

Theres one in Winterspring since classic that never had any relevance in the story and sindragosa. Nothing indicates that they have been used as breeding machines though. Its only Keristrasza that is abused by Malygos.

Cheers. Only Keristrasza was a slave and Malygos was off his rocker at the time. Past that, dragons having multiple wives/lovers has been a given. Alex had Krasus as her prime consort, but had others too. Neltharion had plenty before his cock melted and it became unfeasible.

[Thazzrill]

Its the datamined descriptions with context from new datamined mobs. The Azzinoth one takes you to *modern* Suramar, and we see ancient elves fighting demons & an uncorrupted Illidan. The Azqroth & Azmerloth ones are just instances we saw during the Bronze leveling questchain. Warlands only features races referenced in Warcraft 1. etc. It looks like all the time rifts take you to what is relatively the present day, just in an AU

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I kind of wish they'd give dragonriding to every mount, even if the animations would look extremely weird.

Thanks for the info. I haven't managed to find anything for Arthas and Silvermoon in particular. I've only seen the datamined Vereesa the Banshee Queen model and Uther the Deathbringer, but from what I've seen the datamined map for Azmourne seems to be the Icecrown Citadel. My thoughts are that this would be a universe where Arthas won, there is even the tabard that is called Victorious scourge. Although there is a human model of Prince Arthas which is kind of contradicting.

In regards to Suramar I've found that map, but haven't found anything for Azshara. I've seen the metamorphosis model of Illidan. Wouldn't the last stand of Azshara if she decline be in Zin-Azshari instead of Suramar?

[Worldshaper]

And Keri was well after he went off the deep end.

Other than that, Polyamory is simply normal among dragons.

Not among Dragons. Among Aspects. And it's not just about love and affection, or even banging. It's about breeding. Laying eggs. It's weird.

But what you just said is also kind of exactly why this is so weird. "[...] is simply normal among [...]" is a rational way of approaching fantasy. It's the only way you make sense of something like Game of Thrones, which is full of misogyny, slavery, etc. It's common for the people you're observing, and because of this, it's acceptable to see it happen. It's OK to write stories about it. But for the Blizzard team, almost nothing has been acceptable as of late. They're replacing women with fruits in paintings, for heaven's sake. So why is this particular thing accepted?

[Lahis]

They added the Dragonriding animation set to near enough every old dragon mount, including stuff like the old Drake models.

And the topic of discussion was skins for the existing Dragonridign mounts.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Not among Dragons. Among Aspects. And it's not just about love and affection, or even banging. It's about breeding. Laying eggs. It's weird.

But what you just said is also kind of exactly why this is so weird. "[...] is simply normal among [...]" is a rational way of approaching fantasy. It's the only way you make sense of something like Game of Thrones, which is full of misogyny, slavery, etc. It's common for the people you're observing, and because of this, it's acceptable to see it happen. It's OK to write stories about it. But for the Blizzard team, almost nothing has been acceptable as of late. They're replacing women with fruits in paintings, for heaven's sake. So why is this particular thing accepted?

It is particularly odd; you'd expect they'd try to brush over that entirely, even if it makes a good deal of sense in-universe. Even discounting the rather iffy happenings at the office, this doesn't line up much with their overall tonal tendencies to the point it's outright incongruous.

[Super Dickmann]

It is particularly odd; you'd expect they'd try to brush over that entirely, even if it makes a good deal of sense in-universe. Even discounting the rather iffy happenings at the office, this doesn't line up much with their overall tonal tendencies to the point it's outright incongruous.

Honestly, given that the writers are likely California libertines, you'd think the opposite, that they'd emphasize how it's totally a good thing and that the fact that Maly has a good relationship with Sindragosa doesn't mean he doesn't also have one with Haleh. I haven't gone through the questline yet myself, mind, so I'll hold off judgment on its quality.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Honestly, given that the writers are likely California libertines, you'd think the opposite, that they'd emphasize how it's totally a good thing and that the fact that Maly has a good relationship with Sindragosa doesn't mean he doesn't also have one with Haleh. I haven't gone through the questline yet myself, mind, so I'll hold off judgment on its quality.

That's a fair possibility. From what I've seen of it, the entire arc is actually fairly nice save for the typical twee flavor of Dragonflight and how it skims over some of the nastier behavior of Malygos; to be wholly fair, he was in a state of diminished responsibility where it may not be possible to actually pass effective moral judgment, so I can see the justification behind it. I've not played it directly, but my understanding of it from secondhand testimony is that it is actually handled fairly well and ties together a good number of dangling threads from the Blue Dragonflight's history.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Do you think we'll see Bwonsamdi again in future expacs, or has he been forgotten about by Blizzard?

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Do you think we'll see Bwonsamdi again in future expacs, or has he been forgotten about by Blizzard?

Forgotten, no doubt. If we do see him again, he will undoubtedly be subjecting himself to the yummy taste of the Winter Queen's feet in an unwanted Shadowlands call-back.

[Sondrelk]

Do you think we'll see Bwonsamdi again in future expacs, or has he been forgotten about by Blizzard?

Why would you expect more? He is a bit character who only got what he did in Shadowlands based on player reception. Any more and it would actually have to give him something to do, which is a stretch given he is based in the Shadowlands.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Why would you expect more? He is a bit character who only got what he did in Shadowlands based on player reception. Any more and it would actually have to give him something to do, which is a stretch given he is based in the Shadowlands.

Which is unfortunate, because he's easily one of the best "new" (he was introduced in WotLK, but the character was most "codified" outside of novels in BfA) characters; perhaps Blizzard will feature him again, but I'm not sure what kind of story would be most conducive to his appearance in the plot.

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There are people on Twitter saying they literally cried, not just once but several times as they watched the finale. A finale featuring dragons they've barely met in the game, except as raid bosses 10 years ago.

This is hardly atypical. Twitter people tend to be unhealthily overemotional.

[Khaza-R]

Do you think we'll see Bwonsamdi again in future expacs, or has he been forgotten about by Blizzard?

Forgotten for sure.

Him and Mueh'zala ended up being such a minor sidenote in SLs when it seemed like it was going to be a much bigger plot point.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This Blue dragon questchain is way overhyped on Twitter.

Sure, it's fun to see some overdue lore, the characters we meet are pretty quirky and charming, the voice acting is good, and I like hanging out in the "real" Azeroth.

But it's also super repetitive, going after all those Blue dragons. Because most of them follow the trite old Blizzard formula of "chat to an NPC, receive two unrelated kill/fetch quests before moving on", they feel so similar to each other. Each part is pretty shallow as well. You basically meet somebody with a gargantuan problem on their hands, and within five minutes they go "OK, let's flap away to the Dragon Isles together because family and stuff".

There are people on Twitter saying they literally cried, not just once but several times as they watched the finale. A finale featuring dragons they've barely met in the game, except as raid bosses 10 years ago.

It's also suuuper awkward to see modern day quest writers casually gloss over the fact that Malygos kept four female dragons as his baby-making machines, given how they're usually so eager to remove anything which is remotely offensive from the game these days.

I do enjoy the acknowledgement of the old world(Err Azeroths main lands) and such. That is good. The whole Malygos and Sindragosa thing is... well I mean its sad for Sindy but not so much for Malygos IMO. Yeah his flight got devastated by Neltharion and such but he turned against the world(By going after Magic of all things lmao). Let me be clear the concept is definitely good here, my issue is IMO if the spirit of Malygos was very humble and admitted his sins to his fellow dragon aspects and such instead of "Forgive me Kalecgos" and go off into the sunset, I feel like that would of been more emotional and well more acknowledgement of the facts surrounding Sindy being used as Undead Fodder by the Lich King(Which was also Zovaal but details man details).


TLDR: Concept is good but the teary eyed isn't the vibe I got from it.

[Ersula]

I do enjoy the acknowledgement of the old world(Err Azeroths main lands) and such. That is good. The whole Malygos and Sindragosa thing is... well I mean its sad for Sindy but not so much for Malygos IMO. Yeah his flight got devastated by Neltharion and such but he turned against the world(By going after Magic of all things lmao). Let me be clear the concept is definitely good here, my issue is IMO if the spirit of Malygos was very humble and admitted his sins to his fellow dragon aspects and such instead of "Forgive me Kalecgos" and go off into the sunset, I feel like that would of been more emotional and well more acknowledgement of the facts surrounding Sindy being used as Undead Fodder by the Lich King(Which was also Zovaal but details man details).

This. I was wondering if the writers treatment of Malygos in comparison to Neltharion was inconsistent or deliberate. (Though that's still a step up from 'this is definitely inconsistent' we usually get.) Are they saying Neltharion's nature is evil but Malygos' nature is good? And that they both happened to go insane? That's how they describe their behavior. Is that supposed to be the takeaway? Neltharion is evil, and the Old Gods took advantage of that, but Malygos' madness had nothing to do with Old Gods or "corruption," and his actions were caused by grief? I can get behind that, but they have to realize how confusing their George-r-r-martinian exposition has been.

Thanks for the info. I haven't managed to find anything for Arthas and Silvermoon in particular. I've only seen the datamined Vereesa the Banshee Queen model and Uther the Deathbringer, but from what I've seen the datamined map for Azmourne seems to be the Icecrown Citadel. My thoughts are that this would be a universe where Arthas won, there is even the tabard that is called Victorious scourge. Although there is a human model of Prince Arthas which is kind of contradicting. In regards to Suramar I've found that map, but haven't found anything for Azshara. I've seen the metamorphosis model of Illidan. Wouldn't the last stand of Azshara if she decline be in Zin-Azshari instead of Suramar?

The logic is that if Ner'zhul didn't corrupt Arthas, he would have corrupted Uther. And if he didn't corrupt Sylvanas, he would have corrupted Vareesa. And Death Knight Uther's title matches his Hearthstone form so I filled in the gaps with their Lich King AU. As for Zin-Azshari, its the idea that the Legion's assault has been going on for 10000 years. The functional reason is because they already have an uncorrupted Suramar rather than having to create an entirely new zone. The in-universe explaination is that the rest of Azeroth is now like Argus & Suramar just happened to be the region that Survived like Eredath.

[huth]

Forgotten, no doubt. If we do see him again, he will undoubtedly be subjecting himself to the yummy taste of the Winter Queen's feet in an unwanted Shadowlands call-back.

Because he doesn't show up in a story he has no relevance to? That's a rather big jump in logic.

[Ersula]

What are you trying to say?

He's referencing that Azuregos is dating a Kyrian, but she's a Spirit Healer, a very specific kind of Kyrian that stays on Azeroth indefinitely. They could come up with some kind of reason for the Shadowlands races to come protect Azeroth but I don't think they're going to. (Would like to have those Venthyr hairstyles at the very least.)

[Berkilak]

So is Azuregos how the Shadowlands races are gonna get to Azeroth?

I think that was simply establishing that jumping between our world and the Shadowlands isn’t as easy as we were led to believe during that expansion. So we’re not always asking, “Why don’t we just as Pelagos to bring back (insert recent death)?”

[Ersula]

WoW Lore Twitter is now trying to argue that Varian is responsible for his own death, not Wrathion. Because he spared Garrosh.

Besides that sparing Garrosh really had no effect on Gul'dan's actions; does Dragonflight establish somewhere that Wrathion decided to not go through with the AU Draenor, and it was solely Kairozdormu who carried it out? A lot of people on lore twitter are claiming this.

Still, Wrathion is the most responsible because he knew about what was going down as soon as it started & he chose to tell no one. Not to mention, Admiral Taylor's Log places Wrathion at the scene of Kairozdormu's death. The wiki says Garrosh killed Kairozdormu & that seems like that might be true but he was still there when it happened. For a long time it seemed like Wrathion was taking-out his co-conspirator but establishing he was stopping Kairoz, does paint Wrathion in a better light, but he still didn't tell anybody he knew exactly what was going on long before Khadgar & the player characters did.