The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ksgrip]

You like him, I get it. That doesnt mean that he is interesting perse for everyone. Like I said there really isnt much to him. There is tons of speculation, but that doesnt change or mean much right now. I dont see much speculation about him specifically personally perse, more like a few mentions. The attention is mostly towards alleria and Xal. He has yet to appear in anything other then just legion stuff or filling up a seat in stormwind.

I have yet to see their strong bond honestly, that could be explored sure, but even alleria says she is diststance herself, so there is barely any contact it seems. Also, meh.. its not about a 1v1.. its about the forces that dont match with eachother. That is what I am talking about. Her distancing herself drom her family has a reason to it after all. She says this in the latest cinematic.

We only know so much about him to be fair, I cant really say that isnt something hes character can or wont do. We dont know. Also no one is saying muhaha killing everyone for the light. Him being goodietwoshoes is boring on itself and we have enough light wielders who fill that spot. Hes position and hes relationship with alleria thus void vs light is largely unexplored so far. But tbh I rather see more happening then just light is good. Which we know cant be called good in that sense. Its neutral and can be used for bad things. Him teaming up with Yrel could make for an interesting turn of events. Knowing alleria went more and more to the void, eating the heart and all, same could be done with Turalyon. She could also have not do all of that and stay with her family. which she didnt. That was a selfish act mostly.

Hes very bland, so I dont know why people find him interesting at all. Its mostly just; BuT HeS FrOm warCRaft 2!!! Og ChArater!! Like I said, I dont care either way, but I am simply not interested in just the goodie light boy, which we have seen multiple off already. Right now it just feels we know everything we need to know from him. He needs to prove himself to be anything else, but a paladin who fought demons for years. Its just a lame story so far imo.

You are free to dissagree, but not everyone is as interested in Turalyon as you for example.

I see now that I had the miss placed belief the discussion would be a good endeavour while clearly you don’t have read the books and are speculating on whims of something you have a bare grasp and just want to tick boxes for conflict that has already been explored

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Shit hit the fan when she died and he forgave have her killer because there was a bigger job to do. Heck he pleaded to the Light to spare his Void wife; a zealot would have turned her in. There is a wide gap between being faithful and being a zealot. I know we have demonized religion in the modern day (and with good reason) but there is nothing wrong with faith in itself.

He just wants the guy to be bad just because I see the bias clearly now. YouTuber theories doing damage once again

[Hitei]

Shit hit the fan when she died and he forgave have her killer because there was a bigger job to do. Heck he pleaded to the Light to spare his Void wife; a zealot would have turned her in. There is a wide gap between being faithful and being a zealot. I know we have demonized religion in the modern day (and with good reason) but there is nothing wrong with faith in itself.

A zealot isn't 100% where everything 99% and lower is not a zealot. The fact that he was angry that someone who was about to be enslaved fought back is pretty zealot territory, and while he argued for sparing Alleria, he also simply allowed her to be imprisoned. I'd call someone who lets their significant other of a thousand years be imprisoned (for basically just defying their religion), and then when she ends up free, not only doesn't hold it against the person who imprisoned her at all, but outright takes their side and acts like their significant other was in the wrong and needed to redeem herself, a zealot.

I don't think he's villainous, or heading in the direction of being a villain, but he's definitely a zealot.

[Ksgrip]

A zealot isn't 100% where everything 99% and lower is not a zealot. The fact that he was angry that someone who was about to be enslaved fought back is pretty zealot territory, and while he argued for sparing Alleria, he also simply allowed her to be imprisoned. I'd call someone who lets their significant other of a thousand years be imprisoned (for basically just defying their religion), and then when she ends up free, not only doesn't hold it against the person who imprisoned her at all, but outright takes their side and acts like their significant other was in the wrong and needed to redeem herself, a zealot.

I don't think he's villainous, or heading in the direction of being a villain, but he's definitely a zealot.

Jesus Christ he never blamed her IN FACT this is something objectively acknowledged by Alleria herself. Actually read the books instead of preaching forum posts as lore

[Hitei]

Jesus Christ he never blamed her IN FACT this is something objectively acknowledged by Alleria herself. Actually read the books instead of preaching forum posts as lore

High Exarch Turalyon says: I sense Xe'ra in the central chamber. Thank the Light! We are not too late.
Alleria Windrunner says: And what then? I was locked in a cell for delving into the Void against her wishes. Will she make me a prisoner again? Or worse?
High Exarch Turalyon says: Xe'ra will see that you risked your life to save her. Her faith in you will be restored--I know it!

Certainly sounds like he thinks she was in the wrong in this situation, but go off.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The way he interacted with her and how he is light infused, I would so its slightly more then just a resonance, but it defo could just be a lighting up effect. I thought the light had a warmth like effect for some.but ye, its hard to tell and It doesnt have have to mean much else then that.

Hes bowing/kneeling and doing everything he can to restore her tho, kinda had a differnt feel to it. Hes a true follower of the light. How far would some one like him go when shit hits the fan.

The light is faith based so it could be as simple as seeing his arch angel restored filled him with a ton of faith in there cause only to have it be shaken when Illidan destroyed her.

It would even be in character as he has a history of losing faith/having it reassured.

[Cheezits]

Undermine could also be a mini raid while Rootlands has a mega dungeon. Though either way I hope we get a proper Undermine zone, finally.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

A zealot isn't 100% where everything 99% and lower is not a zealot. The fact that he was angry that someone who was about to be enslaved fought back is pretty zealot territory, and while he argued for sparing Alleria, he also simply allowed her to be imprisoned. I'd call someone who lets their significant other of a thousand years be imprisoned (for basically just defying their religion), and then when she ends up free, not only doesn't hold it against the person who imprisoned her at all, but outright takes their side and acts like their significant other was in the wrong and needed to redeem herself, a zealot.

I don't think he's villainous, or heading in the direction of being a villain, but he's definitely a zealot.

As far as Turalyon or we know there isn’t any enslaving involved in light forging he and every one else we have seen go through it can stand against the Narru just fine so he has no reason to think any thing Ill was actually happening to Illidan.

And as far as his wife goes he still has full trust in her even after turning to the void and I believe tells her to leave and keep doing her thing in the thousand year war after she comes back but she decides to stay and he is of course out ranked when he has protest about locking her up and it’s not like they could just leave even if he wanted to break her out.

At pretty much every turn he could be shown to be a zealot he’s instead incredibly open and moderate.

[Makorus]

Where's this "Rootlands will definitely happen guys!!!" stuff coming from? We literally know there is going to be a goblin raid. You don't need to like it, but it will happen.

[Cheezits]

Where's this "Rootlands will definitely happen guys!!!" stuff coming from? We literally know there is going to be a goblin raid. You don't need to like it, but it will happen.

There is an unimplemented Rootlands map file, in the area adjacent to AK and Hallowsfall, and giant roots are sticking out of the area. There is also a whole lorebook dedicated to the idea with a new ARbait race introduced that hangs around the roots.

So yeah. Patch, or cut content.

Apparently there is a similar thing with some kind of mining rig in Ringing Deeps that isn't in the alpha zone but is visible on the map? I don't have the map handy but that could be the way to get to Undermine.

[Raetary]

Where's this "Rootlands will definitely happen guys!!!" stuff coming from? We literally know there is going to be a goblin raid. You don't need to like it, but it will happen.

Oh great.

Time for the "The giant hole next to Ohn'nara is totally not for Amirdrassil" 2.0 discourse.

[Ksgrip]

Certainly sounds like he thinks she was in the wrong in this situation, but go off.

I knew you were manipulating the argument when the extract doesn’t show your narrative. He never blames Alleria and even it is made a point he trusts her more than ever. Do I have to get the extract in shadowrising were Alleria herself says he accepts her darkness? Or even in a Thousand Years for war were he himself says he trusts her more than ever?


You have an agenda and are not being straightforward with it

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As far as Turalyon or we know there isn’t any enslaving involved in light forging he and every one else we have seen go through it can stand against the Narru just fine so he has no reason to think any thing Ill was actually happening to Illidan.

And as far as his wife goes he still has full trust in her even after turning to the void and I believe tells her to leave and keep doing her thing in the thousand year war after she comes back but she decides to stay and he is of course out ranked when he has protest about locking her up and it’s not like they could just leave even if he wanted to break her out.

At pretty much every turn he could be shown to be a zealot he’s instead incredibly open and moderate.

Bingo. Somehow they pretend he could do fight the whole Army by himself lol. Regardless the point is moot because the only one with an argument to be annoyed is Alleria who clearly doesn’t think it was a problem

[Hitei]

And as far as his wife goes he still has full trust in her even after turning to the void and I believe tells her to leave and keep doing her thing in the thousand year war after she comes back but she decides to stay and he is of course out ranked when he has protest about locking her up.

When she returns, Lothraxion has faith in her not being lost and says he won't give up on her. Turalyon just tells her to leave before Xe'ra comes back. It's not some "haha, you do your own thing" moment. Lothraxion is also the one who then vouches for her intentions and argues that she acted selflessly and to protect the Army of the Light despite knowing it would get her rejected, after which, again, Turalyon just begs Xe'ra not to hurt her.

He trusts her, but he also 100% thinks she was in the wrong, and wrong to do it, and his immediate reaction is to tell her beg for forgiveness. Also pretty zealot-y as far as responses go. The guy is ears deep in the Xe'ra is the ultimate good and everyone should listen to her and follow her every word kool-aid.

Again. I don't think he's a villain, but he's pretty deep into zealot range. He isn't moderate at all. He has good intentions (keeping his wife from harm even when she "fucked up", work with Illidan even though he's "an enemy") but he is (was) ears deep in the Xe'ra kool-aid. She could have told him to suicide bomb the front gate of Antorus, and he probably would have nodded along happily.

The open and moderate response to Alleria's choice would have been Lothraxion's response, not "immediately renounce your decision and beg for forgiveness from our deity, also I would have rather you let me die than choose this".

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I knew you were manipulating the argument when the extract doesn’t show your narrative. He never blames Alleria and even it is made a point he trusts her more than ever.

He slowly sat up. His eyes took in the chaos of the Nether. And then he could do nothing but stare at her. "What… what did you do?"

She didn't answer him. She wanted to lie to him, but she couldn't. Not again.

"Alleria." He reached for her. She pulled away. "Alleria, please! Why? Why?"

Her voice was calm. "That is what I asked. Why? Then I understood. We were not meant to die on Argus today. Even Xe'ra knew it. But she could not see how we escaped. She could not see that it was the Shadow that would save us."

"I would rather have died than have you fall to evil!"

"I know. And yet my fate has not changed. We will see our son again. We will defeat the Legion."

"Alleria…" Turalyon's voice was choked with horror. "This can be undone. Ask forgiveness. Forswear the Shadow. I'm sure Xe'ra will help you.

...

She stopped in front of him. She looked exhausted. "It is good to see you again," she said.

He wanted to tell her the same. He wanted to tell her that he loved her and that nothing would ever change that. It would have been true. But he couldn't find the words. Not yet. She seemed to understand."

Certainly sounds like he thinks she was in the wrong in this situation, but go off.

[Nymrohd]

There is an unimplemented Rootlands map file, in the area adjacent to AK and Hallowsfall, and giant roots are sticking out of the area. There is also a whole lorebook dedicated to the idea with a new ARbait race introduced that hangs around the roots.

So yeah. Patch, or cut content.

Apparently there is a similar thing with some kind of mining rig in Ringing Deeps that isn't in the alpha zone but is visible on the map? I don't have the map handy but that could be the way to get to Undermine.

Kezan should be reasonably close so its underground areas like Undermine being connected by a tunnel or series of caverns with the Ringing Depths wouldn't even be weird.

[milkmustache]

There is an unimplemented Rootlands map file, in the area adjacent to AK and Hallowsfall, and giant roots are sticking out of the area. There is also a whole lorebook dedicated to the idea with a new ARbait race introduced that hangs around the roots.

So yeah. Patch, or cut content.

Apparently there is a similar thing with some kind of mining rig in Ringing Deeps that isn't in the alpha zone but is visible on the map? I don't have the map handy but that could be the way to get to Undermine.

I like the idea of the Harronir, I only hope they get more customizations if they're made an Allied race. We don't need 18 hair colors for them, but more than 2 colors and 4 styles would be ideal.

I haven't heard of the mining rig in Ringing Deeps, but I support the idea that if Undermine is connected to a zone in Khaz Algar, Ringing Deeps feels right.

The more I think of it, I really enjoy the idea of every cosmic form prying to get at Azeroth's world soul and the Titans trying so hard to stop them all. A more Life influenced (opposed to Titanic) look at Life themes with Rootlands will be a lot of fun.

[Cheezits]

Also...

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...2#post54455072

[Khaza-R]

There is an unimplemented Rootlands map file, in the area adjacent to AK and Hallowsfall, and giant roots are sticking out of the area. There is also a whole lorebook dedicated to the idea with a new ARbait race introduced that hangs around the roots.

So yeah. Patch, or cut content.

Apparently there is a similar thing with some kind of mining rig in Ringing Deeps that isn't in the alpha zone but is visible on the map? I don't have the map handy but that could be the way to get to Undermine.

Entirely possible that the rootlands and the Venture co / Undermine story are also related. Seems really unlikely we would have another giant tree themed raid after just having Amirdrassil.

[milkmustache]

Kezan should be reasonably close so its underground areas like Undermine being connected by a tunnel or series of caverns with the Ringing Depths wouldn't even be weird.

Does Gallywix and the Venture Co control Kezan now?

We've seen Venture Co in Cindermead Brewery, it would make sense that they're looking to mine further into Khaz Algar.

[Ksgrip]

When she returns, Lothraxion has faith in her not being lost and says he won't give up on her. Turalyon just tells her to leave before Xe'ra comes back. It's not some "haha, you do your own thing" moment. Lothraxion is also the one who then vouches for her intentions and argues that she acted selflessly and to protect the Army of the Light despite knowing it would get her rejected, after which, again, Turalyon just begs Xe'ra not to hurt her.

He trusts her, but he also 100% thinks she was in the wrong, and wrong to do it, and his immediate reaction is to tell her beg for forgiveness. Also pretty zealot-y as far as responses go. The guy is ears deep in the Xe'ra is the ultimate good and everyone should listen to her and follow her every word kool-aid.

Again. I don't think he's a villain, but he's pretty deep into zealot range. He isn't moderate at all. He has good intentions (keeping his wife from harm even when she "fucked up", work with Illidan even though he's "an enemy") but he is (was) ears deep in the Xe'ra kool-aid. She could have told him to suicide bomb the front gate of Antorus, and he probably would have nodded along happily.

The open and moderate response to Alleria's choice would have been Lothraxion's response, not "immediately renounce your decision and beg for forgiveness from our deity, also I would have rather you let me die than choose this".

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Certainly sounds like he thinks she was in the wrong in this situation, but go off.

Do you know what is the concept of character development buddy. He outgrew those thoughts it is made a freaking point about it. Jesus it’s like debating a politician constantly cherry picking things so the narrative can be maintained. I know you have your own version of a character that does not match how he has evolved and you DESPERATELY want him to be bad. There is nothing to be debated because you have your own version set in stone because you want something to happen and chose to ignore everything that doesn’t support your argument.

How convenient that you purposefully chose to ignore all later content so your zealot narrative can be maintained. Shadowrising by its own destroys your view but go O
Off

[Lorgar Aurelian]

He trusts her, but he also 100% thinks she was in the wrong, and wrong to do it, and his immediate reaction is to tell her beg for forgiveness.

your describing him not being a zealot. A zealot doesn’t trust some one they think have given into the power of pure evil nor do they try and turn them away from that evil and then move onto it being fine and they should still fight in there own way when they return.

He also doesn’t need to think she’s always doing the right thing she can make wrong decisions and be can still support her.

Also pretty zealot-y as far as responses go. The guy is ears deep in the Xe'ra is the ultimate good and everyone should listen to her and follow her every word kool-aid.

this just isn’t a thing. Alleria lies to Xera and him when they first go to argus and he doesn’t chew her out or any thing when she admits it he just goes along with it as he trust his wife and then again is against her being locked up on her return.

The most he’s ever done in that lane is let Alleria be locked up instead of fighting the whole army of the light to break her out which while might be nice from an idealized true love stand point makes no sense for a solider who understands what they are actually fighting and knows he can’t go with her due to there light and void conflicting.

Again. I don't think he's a villain, but he's pretty deep into zealot range. He isn't moderate at all. He has good intentions (keeping his wife from harm even when she "fucked up", work with Illidan even though he's "an enemy") but he is (was) ears deep in the Xe'ra kool-aid. She could have told him to suicide bomb the front gate of Antorus, and he probably would have nodded along happily.

Wife taps into what he sees as pure evil, no problem still loves and trust her.

Demon blows up his military commander and arch angel, no problem move on after one failed blow.

Orcs who destroyed human kingdoms and made him leave his world to stop them show up, no problem people change.

Soulless undead pretending to be his dead arch priest show up, no problem the light is still within them.

Horde commit genocide during a ongoing world endangering crisis, no problem go to the elfs weddings.

He’s been moderate on every issue that has ever come up and has never acted as a zealot any thing thing other then like way back in the novels when he thought the orcs weren’t people.

[Santandame]

Undermine could also be a mini raid while Rootlands has a mega dungeon. Though either way I hope we get a proper Undermine zone, finally.

If Undermine is a raid, and not a mega dungeon then the 11.1 new zone is almost definitely going to be an actual Undermine zone too. They aren’t going to have the Undermine raid take place in the Rootlands. Well, technically they could but it makes no thematic sense.

Conversely if the Rootlands are used as the mega dungeon, then the likely situation going off previous mega dungeons is that we won’t be getting a Rootlands zone. Mechagon being the outlier. But all evidence points towards there indeed being a Rootlands zone.