The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

If I had to give you a theory anyway, I'm pretty sure that Oribos was made by Titans and not The First One anyway. And I'm pretty sure the Titans betrayed the First One because they couldn't see the importance of balance between all cosmic forces and only wanted order.

Are you saying that because of the thing with Elun'ahir thing? To me that suggests the First Ones' are the Titans bosses more than anything. Nothing the Titan's did was antithetical to the First One's design: Here is what Amon Thul said:

When Aman'Thul saw what Eonar had done, he chided her. "This is not Order!" he bellowed. "You have infected this world with uncontrolled chaos!"

It's not that Aman'thul trying to destroy the other forces; Their domain is order, not life. Eonar was essentially operating outside of the Titan's prime directive, ergo Amon'thul's reaction. It's like if your boss finds out you were doing someone else's job.

[Nathanyel]

If the first patch is truly about a goblin raid (probably undermine) I hope it doesn't feel like a joke filler patch. And it would be a great time to fight against Gallywix at last.

I could totally see the Gallywix fight to "take inspiration" from the King Mechagon fight, especially if G appropriated Mechagnome tech. Add some subtle hints like him purchasing the rights to call himself the inventor of the tech and it's perfect.

You know what characterizes dwarves?
"Predominantly, Dark Iron dwarves are known for their fiery tempers and fierce determination."

Hey, same can be said about us nerds. However, such stereotypes going beyond general culture are just dumb, even in Fantasy.

"Dagran is a self-inserted nerd" is really a bizarre hill to die on.

Sadly, just repeating it over and over will likely work, others will start to believe and propagate it, like with the demonstrably false claim that Nathanos was a self-insert.

I despise the voice acting for this character, it seems that I cannot shut him up quickly enough everytime I hover over one of his world quests

WQs voicelines (and in this case, those during the Researchers event) are often somewhat over the top or weird, but when I played the campaign quests he was involved in, Rannan sounded much more tolerable.

I don't understand how we don't have yet any offhands that just floats beside you; a magic tome, an orb of power, a caged imp, a lantern, etc.

I still hold that the Skull from the Trading Post Warlock Arsenal (with weapons that could've been somewhat lofi Artifact appearances) should've been floating instead of just being a regular offhand.

[Holdodlig]

Are you saying that because of the thing with Elun'ahir thing? To me that suggests the First Ones' are the Titans bosses more than anything. Nothing the Titan's did was antithetical to the First One's design: Here is what Amon Thul said: It's not that Aman'thul trying to destroy the other forces; Their domain is order, not life. Eonar was essentially operating outside of the Titan's prime directive, ergo Amon'thul's reaction. It's like if your boss finds out you were doing someone else's job.

I'm mainly saying that because of the titanic conspiracy teased for The Last Titan and how their bad aspect has been pointed out multiple times during Dragonflight.

I might be wrong, but I think there's a big set up for the titans to be considered evil, or at least to threat us in a close future.

[Ersula]

I'm mainly saying that because of the titanic conspiracy teased for The Last Titan and how their bad aspect has been pointed out multiple times during Dragonflight.

I might be wrong, but I think there's a big set up for the titans to be considered evil, or at least to threat us in a close future.

Considering the Jailer's wild characterization, and that "What I did was bad but I did it for the right reasons" is their go-to motive for their villains, I don't see why The First Ones can't also be implicated in whatever the Titans are guilty of. Especially when they aren't really characters & may not even exist anymore.

[NatePsy]

Dracthyr being able to roll other classes should be interesting, will this open up the chance for Dracthyr to be given bigger forms?

Above is not actual content but fanmade, I'm hoping they allow for this, it would be great to have bigger sizes in both visage & dracthyr form and I would roll to Warrior in a heartbeat if they could have this size on them.

[Woggmer]

I'm mainly saying that because of the titanic conspiracy teased for The Last Titan and how their bad aspect has been pointed out multiple times during Dragonflight.

I might be wrong, but I think there's a big set up for the titans to be considered evil, or at least to threat us in a close future.

Not just Dragonflight but also with BFA in Uldir considering they experimented on Wild Gods and created G'huun as an artificial old god.

Though I don't see them as inherently evil, aside from maybe Sargeras since he was built up to be the ultimate evil of WoW for the longest time. The real conspiracy is why are they interested in this single planet, because the whole "they want to make her into a titan" logic probably won't fly.

Except in one case where maybe Aman'thul sees this planet as a threat and by making it into a Titan he can control them better rather than to destroy it.

[username993720]

Hey, same can be said about us nerds. However, such stereotypes going beyond general culture are just dumb, even in Fantasy.

What's Dark Iron or Dwarven about this guy? He seems like an Anduin through and through.

[Civciv]

Leave Dagran alone. He's a cute nerd what's wrong with that?

[Scyth]

Leave Dagran alone. He's a cute nerd what's wrong with that?

They aren't allowed in WoW. Only buff men who like to kill for breakfast are allowed!

[Fahrad Wagner]

Leave Dagran alone. He's a cute nerd what's wrong with that?

I don't get the hate either

They aren't allowed in WoW. Only buff men who like to kill for breakfast are allowed!

exactly... it's ridiculous

[Nymrohd]

Not just Dragonflight but also with BFA in Uldir considering they experimented on Wild Gods and created G'huun as an artificial old god.

Though I don't see them as inherently evil, aside from maybe Sargeras since he was built up to be the ultimate evil of WoW for the longest time. The real conspiracy is why are they interested in this single planet, because the whole "they want to make her into a titan" logic probably won't fly.

Except in one case where maybe Aman'thul sees this planet as a threat and by making it into a Titan he can control them better rather than to destroy it.

How I view it.
Nothing has directly retconned the World Soul origins from the Chronicle. They are the process of creation and a late comer at that. In my opinion, they are the grand result of the experiment made by the First ones. The Six Forces all realize that at some point when the world souls first appear. The natural state of the World Souls is UNALIGNED. They are extraordinary powerful but they are also moldable children (possible meant to be the next generation of First Ones?)
Aman'thul was one of the earliest World Souls if not the first one to awaken. He set out to find more of his kind which absolutely makes sense. The crucial part here is, Order contacted them first, before any other force. Some force from within Order led them to Zereth Ordos and the local Eternals presented their viewpoint to the nascent Titans as fact. Aman'thul fully embraced the viewpoint of Order. With great power comes great responsibility and the Pantheon is now responsible for managing the most important resource in the cosmos; those few planets were life is possible. The other Titans all more or less align with Order but none have done so to the level Aman'thul did. And they respect him (probably because he found them first)
Another idea; the birth of a World Soul is destructive. Asleep their power fosters life on their planet shells and every one of them grew up dreaming of the civilizations that lived on them and the lives of the mortals there. And then when they are born, they pretty much kill everyone. This means that all world souls are born into immense shame and guilt which makes them easy to manipulate. This is why Order managed to ensnare them so fully; they showed a way to control a world soul growth and supposed birth it with no trauma. So the Titans went out there searching for souls so they could midwife them without destroying their planets and they feel compelled to foster civilizations on planets that can bear life. Wiping out everyone on them is not hypocrisy; on the timescale the Titans perceive, forcing a planet's life forms to stick to the plan is what will maximize the planetary resources and create the most advanced civilizations possible so they feel it is their best shot (they very much are omnipotent children).

So Azeroth is a world soul like all others. It is possibly the strongest of them all which is why it took the longest to coalesce. It is likely kept under control by Titan interference, but that is with the intent to birth it without killing everyone on the planet by cracking it open like an egg.

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They aren't allowed in WoW. Only buff men who like to kill for breakfast are allowed!

I mean, show me a nerd whose shoulders are so buff they have no neck and whose hands and biceps are thicker than their head like Dagran. The only thing the boy misses is a beard and that's probably because that's how the devs thought to present him as a teenager. We don't really know anything about the lifespan of a WoW Dwarf anyway (the RPGs have numbers but those were the stock D&D numbers).

[Woggmer]

snip

We might not know the truth, a lot of it will depend on how they present the titans going forward in The War Within (I highly doubt they'll give much info in Midnight since the Void will be the biggest focus there).

I don't know about the Titans being World Souls that were influenced by the Pantheon of Order when they themselves became a Pantheon. It would make some sense, but there isn't any indication of this mystery Order pantheon. Unless they do something radically insane like suggest that the First Ones were the original Pantheon of Order but mysteriously vanished with Aman'thul learning everything about them to create a new pantheon from the World Souls. Though that still isn't exactly much for people to be 100% on board with turning Azeroth into a titan. That the First Ones created these Zereths in order to funnel and control each elemental sector so that it doesn't spiral out of control and have the universe collapse in of itself... the Zereths were built to last and Aman'thul copied the idea from them to birth out new Titans.

Does it make sense? I don't know, even I'm getting a headache trying to fit this all together.... All I know is that we can't exactly trust the Titans until new information comes up.

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Leave Dagran alone. He's a cute nerd what's wrong with that?

Nothing. I'm just waiting until the Cult of Ragnaros decides to kidnap him and use him as a puppet monarch to get back to the old glory days of when his Father and the Dark Irons were under the Firelord's pact.

It's a subplot just waiting to happen.

[Nymrohd]

We might not know the truth, a lot of it will depend on how they present the titans going forward in The War Within (I highly doubt they'll give much info in Midnight since the Void will be the biggest focus there).

I don't know about the Titans being World Souls that were influenced by the Pantheon of Order when they themselves became a Pantheon. It would make some sense, but there isn't any indication of this mystery Order pantheon. Unless they do something radically insane like suggest that the First Ones were the original Pantheon of Order but mysteriously vanished with Aman'thul learning everything about them to create a new pantheon from the World Souls. Though that still isn't exactly much for people to be 100% on board with turning Azeroth into a titan. That the First Ones created these Zereths in order to funnel and control each elemental sector so that it doesn't spiral out of control and have the universe collapse in of itself... the Zereths were built to last and Aman'thul copied the idea from them to birth out new Titans.

Does it make sense? I don't know, even I'm getting a headache trying to fit this all together.... All I know is that we can't exactly trust the Titans until new information comes up.

Why does there need to be an order Pantheon. Why does each force need a Pantheon at all? This is just compulsively seeking patterns when there is no need for them. Death as a force served a very specific purpose so it had specific Eternals and realms made to serve specific tasks. I am sure all forces do have specific tasks they do to maintain the universe at large; Life likely will have some First One facility that generates souls and sends those souls to the physical realm. Perhaps Order maintains time (the ultimate expression of Order being the inviolability of time). But how each Force does that doesn't require them to be identical. Perhaps the greater power of Order is completely impersonal (e.g. would it not make sense if every creature we meet on that plane speaks with one voice because they all share one conscience? They are after all the very expression of Order)

What we do know is that no other Force has its greater powers just walking around in the seventh, physical realm; they are all contained within their respective forces and it seems damn hard for them to get out. Void Lords cannot get out of the Void, we've never seen a Titan level creature of any of the other Forces around (Elune acts on the Physical realm but she has never fully manifested there) so why would Order be the exception and have its entire pantheon on the physical realm?

[Annihilas]

How I view it.
Nothing has directly retconned the World Soul origins from the Chronicle. They are the process of creation and a late comer at that. In my opinion, they are the grand result of the experiment made by the First ones. The Six Forces all realize that at some point when the world souls first appear. The natural state of the World Souls is UNALIGNED. They are extraordinary powerful but they are also moldable children (possible meant to be the next generation of First Ones?)
Aman'thul was one of the earliest World Souls if not the first one to awaken. He set out to find more of his kind which absolutely makes sense. The crucial part here is, Order contacted them first, before any other force. Some force from within Order led them to Zereth Ordos and the local Eternals presented their viewpoint to the nascent Titans as fact. Aman'thul fully embraced the viewpoint of Order. With great power comes great responsibility and the Pantheon is now responsible for managing the most important resource in the cosmos; those few planets were life is possible. The other Titans all more or less align with Order but none have done so to the level Aman'thul did. And they respect him (probably because he found them first)
Another idea; the birth of a World Soul is destructive. Asleep their power fosters life on their planet shells and every one of them grew up dreaming of the civilizations that lived on them and the lives of the mortals there. And then when they are born, they pretty much kill everyone. This means that all world souls are born into immense shame and guilt which makes them easy to manipulate. This is why Order managed to ensnare them so fully; they showed a way to control a world soul growth and supposed birth it with no trauma. So the Titans went out there searching for souls so they could midwife them without destroying their planets and they feel compelled to foster civilizations on planets that can bear life. Wiping out everyone on them is not hypocrisy; on the timescale the Titans perceive, forcing a planet's life forms to stick to the plan is what will maximize the planetary resources and create the most advanced civilizations possible so they feel it is their best shot (they very much are omnipotent children).

So Azeroth is a world soul like all others. It is possibly the strongest of them all which is why it took the longest to coalesce. It is likely kept under control by Titan interference, but that is with the intent to birth it without killing everyone on the planet by cracking it open like an egg.

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I mean, show me a nerd whose shoulders are so buff they have no neck and whose hands and biceps are thicker than their head like Dagran. The only thing the boy misses is a beard and that's probably because that's how the devs thought to present him as a teenager. We don't really know anything about the lifespan of a WoW Dwarf anyway (the RPGs have numbers but those were the stock D&D numbers).

I give you 10/10 World Souls for the effort!

[Skildar]

What we do know is that no other Force has its greater powers just walking around in the seventh, physical realm; they are all contained within their respective forces and it seems damn hard for them to get out. Void Lords cannot get out of the Void, we've never seen a Titan level creature of any of the other Forces around (Elune acts on the Physical realm but she has never fully manifested there) so why would Order be the exception and have its entire pantheon on the physical realm?

Seeing as we encounter a genesaur on Khaz Algar, and their purpose on Draenor was to spread life uncontrollably, there could be new setups as life and light will be unleashed heavily in expansions follwing TLT (once order has run its course and they lose some of their control)

[Nymrohd]

Seeing as we encounter a genesaur on Khaz Algar, and their purpose on Draenor was to spread life uncontrollably, there could be new setups as life and light will be unleashed heavily in expansions follwing TLT (once order has run its course and they lose some of their control)

Ofc they should. But nothing about a Genesaur screams Titan level to me. The only Titan-adjacent creatures we know of are the Void Lords, Elune and the Eternal Ones and none of them are walking around the physical realm where we are.

[Lady Atia]

Ofc they should. But nothing about a Genesaur screams Titan level to me. The only Titan-adjacent creatures we know of are the Void Lords, Elune and the Eternal Ones and none of them are walking around the physical realm where we are.

Actually, I'm quite sure Sire Denathrius has left the Shadowlands for good. But yeah, Genesaurs seem to be Keeper level at most, alongside Wild Gods.

[Makabreska]

Seeing as we encounter a genesaur on Khaz Algar, and their purpose on Draenor was to spread life uncontrollably, there could be new setups as life and light will be unleashed heavily in expansions follwing TLT (once order has run its course and they lose some of their control)

Also, for some reason, we seem to have native to Ardenweals Gorms as mounts. Now, it can be an improper labelling by WoWhead and this is some Nerubian stuff, but still:

[Raetary]

I love how they expanded dynamic flight to almost every single flying mount.
And the animations look really good too.

I was expecting most of the non-winged mounts to be kept static only or be left for later, but nope, i can finally use my Lucid Nightmare!

Seeing as we encounter a genesaur on Khaz Algar

Any link to that?

I don't see any Genesaur models in any of the datamining.

[Viridiel]

Also, for some reason, we seem to have native to Ardenweals Gorms as mounts. Now, it can be an improper labelling by WoWhead and this is some Nerubian stuff, but still:

It's improper labelling. They use the same rig as gorms but they're Nerubian cave borers.