The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dracullus]

You bought beta access with the MoP preorder.

Not pre-order, 1 year sub. "The World of Warcraft Annual Pass was a limited-time offer that required a commitment to subscribe to WoW for one year, first made available on October 21, 2011, the opening day of BlizzCon 2011, and ending on April 30, 2012." Yeah, and people say now Blizzard went crazy with FOMO. xD

[Eldryth]

You bought beta access with the MoP preorder.

I don't think it came with pre-orders, but the Annual Pass gave guaranteed beta access along Tyrael's Charger and a copy of Diablo 3.

[Nymrohd]

Not pre-order, 1 year sub. "The World of Warcraft Annual Pass was a limited-time offer that required a commitment to subscribe to WoW for one year, first made available on October 21, 2011, the opening day of BlizzCon 2011, and ending on April 30, 2012." Yeah, and people say now Blizzard went crazy with FOMO. xD

Ah you are right, it was the annual pass. Still, they have sold beta access before.
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Annual_Pass

I remember people went mad against the poor sparkle pony back then

[Xilurm]

Yeah the reality is, faction war is dead at least in the medium term so BfA should not in any way be part of the default leveling experience. I don't think DF would be successful in getting you invested in the franchise if that is how you start but that's the best they have.

I never really liked the starting quests to begin with. For new players it makes zero sense. Go with Jaina, someone you don't know anything about, end up in jail, have to escape and then listen to Talia talk about random things you have no interest in.

While with DF you take a boat (which is part of the gameplay mind you, like with Wrath) and you are told we are going to this new island to explore. You meet tons of NEW people which is good because there's no attachments needed. There's a lot of introduction quests that are very "WoW-like" if that makes sense. Alexstrasza is pretty much the only old character we meet but she's introduced as the Queen and that's the only thing you need to know as a new player.

[Dracullus]

Obviously DF is far better as starting point. BfA was just best option from modern era until now.

[Gurahk]

Obviously DF is far better as starting point. BfA was just best option from modern era until now.

I think DF is probably a bad start for players too, atleast in terms of the warcraft feeling. It does not do a good job of representing the rest of Warcraft.
Though that's just my bias speaking, the voice acting in some of the zones annoyed me a lot.
Atleast with TWW releasing, that can be used as the intro for new players starting with Midnight.

[Nymrohd]

I think DF is probably a bad start for players too, atleast in terms of the warcraft feeling. It does not do a good job of representing the rest of Warcraft.
Though that's just my bias speaking, the voice acting in some of the zones annoyed me a lot.
Atleast with TWW releasing, that can be used as the intro for new players starting with Midnight.

It's not that DF is good, it's that it is better than BfA or Shadowlands. And heck, better than Legion; Legion makes no sense as a starting character cause you are meant to go in as the hero. DF is better than the alternatives simply because of how damn basic it is as a story. There are stories that will suffer badly in the leveling experience if you are fresh to the game; you ain't going to be able to understand wtf is going on with Wrathion and Sabellian for instance or later on with the Bronze flight.

[Dracullus]

I think DF is probably a bad start for players too, atleast in terms of the warcraft feeling. It does not do a good job of representing the rest of Warcraft.
Though that's just my bias speaking, the voice acting in some of the zones annoyed me a lot.
Atleast with TWW releasing, that can be used as the intro for new players starting with Midnight.

I said better, not perfect. If you think something would be better than DF, name it.

DF is story skip like Vanilla after W3, start slowly with classic zeppelin journey to unexplored continent, have classic fantasy setting with dragons and none of end-of-the-world Legion feeling. So only major downside is lack of Horde/Ally themes, but it's not like we will get them lot of them through whole saga anyway.

[milkmustache]

I think DF is probably a bad start for players too, atleast in terms of the warcraft feeling. It does not do a good job of representing the rest of Warcraft.
Though that's just my bias speaking, the voice acting in some of the zones annoyed me a lot.
Atleast with TWW releasing, that can be used as the intro for new players starting with Midnight.

Agreed, DF misrepresents a lot of the feelings that the game gives and seems to be an outlier in that. Not to retread that argument, DF did a great job improving the gameplay, but the story was just not representative of Warcraft.

TWW does seem like it'll be bumped to the leveling experience in Midnight.

That being said, Holly Longdale did answer a question about Exile's Reach and NPE in general, stating that they're very aware that it just doesn't meet the mark, and while it may have worked for a certain time, it's proving to have more issues.

"There's a bunch of challenges. How do we tell 20 years of story? So players get a really good healthy intro. I do think this idea of the player fantasy with the race you choose ... I loved logging in, and still do, as a night elf, going through Teldrassil, and doing all this stuff. Without that, for me, personally — I'm not as bonded to my race, and I don't feel that purpose as much. So, I think we're going to explore that more. There is work to do there. And that's something that we want to aim for in the future."

I imagine a best case scenario would be revamped starting zones, then leveling to midway to max in the previous expansion's zone. Midnight's of course being TWW.

I wonder though if they intend to include renown tracks and patch campaigns into the main leveling situation now.

[Xilurm]

Holy shit she said that? God bless this woman. I can actually be hopeful for unique racial starting zones now.

The thing is, the whole bumping up the starting experience each time a new expansion comes out isn't ideal. Maybe people will start with TWW after Midnight, but I can't imagine bumping it up to Midnight after TLT comes out, and missing out on TWW which is literally the starting point of the WSS saga.

Now if they make new starting zones or revamp the old ones, they GOTTA keep those that default starting experience for a very long time, and not bump it to something else. And make sure it flows smoothly into what expansion you wanna put players in.

[Hitei]

I think DF is probably a bad start for players too, atleast in terms of the warcraft feeling. It does not do a good job of representing the rest of Warcraft.
Though that's just my bias speaking, the voice acting in some of the zones annoyed me a lot.
Atleast with TWW releasing, that can be used as the intro for new players starting with Midnight.

War Within is not approachable. Like Legion, it requires significant amounts of existing knowledge to follow.

[Ersula]

Holy shit she said that? God bless this woman. I can actually be hopeful for unique racial starting zones now.

The thing is, the whole bumping up the starting experience each time a new expansion comes out isn't ideal. Maybe people will start with TWW after Midnight, but I can't imagine bumping it up to Midnight after TLT comes out, and missing out on TWW which is literally the starting point of the WSS saga.

Now if they make new starting zones or revamp the old ones, they GOTTA keep those that default starting experience for a very long time, and not bump it to something else. And make sure it flows smoothly into what expansion you wanna put players in.

"There's a bunch of challenges. How do we tell 20 years of story? So players get a really good healthy intro. I do think this idea of the player fantasy with the race you choose ... I loved logging in, and still do, as a night elf, going through Teldrassil, and doing all this stuff. Without that, for me, personally — I'm not as bonded to my race, and I don't feel that purpose as much. So, I think we're going to explore that more. There is work to do there. And that's something that we want to aim for in the future."

How do you read that & not interpret that as chromie time? She means the Cata Teldrassil. The Night Elves are planning on resettling on the tiny island Teldrassil was on but that island isn't Teldrassil. Teldrassil is the tree & that's dead forever.

[Xilurm]

How do you read that & not interpret that as chromie time? She means the Cata Teldrassil. The Night Elves are planning on resettling on the island Teldrassil was on but that island isn't Teldrassil. Teldrassil is the tree & that's dead forever.

What about the last part though?

So, I think we're going to explore that more. There is work to do there. And that's something that we want to aim for in the future."

[Gurahk]

War Within is not approachable. Like Legion, it requires significant amounts of existing knowledge to follow.

Unlike Legion it is not the end of a saga, but a beginning of one. In fact I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't make TWW the levelling experience starting with Midnight.

[Ersula]

What about the last part though?

So, I think we're going to explore that more. There is work to do there. And that's something that we want to aim for in the future."

Classic? Seems like she's clarifiying they don't intend to remove the cata era versions of the zones when they update Azeroth they way they did in Catalcysm. A new version of old Teldrassil doesn't make sense, and if they really wanted to that's what Seasonal Classic is for.

Unless they plan on giving Night Elves a new worldtree every other expansion which would be so gd stupid.

[Xilurm]

Classic? Seems like she's clarifiying they don't intend to remove the cata era versions of the zones when they update Azeroth they way they did in Catalcysm. A new version of old Teldrassil doesn't make sense, and if they really wanted to that's what Seasonal Classic is for.

Just because she's talking about Teldrassil doesn't mean whatever new starting area they make is going to be the exact same place with updated quests though. She's talking about the feeling you get when you go through a starting are specific to the race you chose because it makes you feel more bonded with the character. You can already choose to start in the old starting areas when you make a new character, so her saying that wouldn't make sense unless they planned to do something new.

[milkmustache]

Classic? Seems like she's clarifiying they don't intend to remove the cata era versions of the zones when they update Azeroth they way they did in Catalcysm. A new version of old Teldrassil doesn't make sense, and if they really wanted to that's what Seasonal Classic is for.

Unless they plan on giving Night Elves a new worldtree every other expansion which would be so gd stupid.

I think she is referring to Teldrassil the zone opposed to Teldrassil the world tree, and the idea of a night elf starting out in this shady purpled forest, just as they did in Vanilla (and Cata).

The current process for a brand new character on a fresh account is Exile's Reach > BFA (DF as of late summer), which I suppose is fine in terms of tech/gameplay, but there is no ability to create a bond with your race or understand the depth of their existence in the world. The only opportunity a new player gets to do that is to go back and make an alt after doing Exile's Reach, which is unlikely for them to do at the time.

So I think the idea of abandoning Exile's Reach, where let's face it we see virtually zero race and faction lore, it's just the same characters reskinned for Horde and Alliance, and rebuilding racial starting zones as almost a sequel to the heritage quests can be incredibly beneficial for strengthening the worldbuilding with races that has started to dissapate, and I think that general idea is what Holly says the team is aware of and looking into.

[Hitei]

Unlike Legion it is not the end of a saga, but a beginning of one. In fact I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't make TWW the levelling experience starting with Midnight.

When it was first confirmed they used the expression "going forward", which doesn't really make sense used in place of "just for the next expansion". The fact that it's the start of a saga doesn't change that a new player would have absolutely no idea what is going on if dropped directly into it.

[Ersula]

I think she is referring to Teldrassil the zone opposed to Teldrassil the world tree, and the idea of a night elf starting out in this shady purpled forest, just as they did in Vanilla (and Cata).

You can still do that. We don't need 3 versions of the Night Elf starting zone. And we don't need 3 versions of starting zone in retail.

[milkmustache]

When it was first confirmed they used the expression "going forward", which doesn't really make sense used in place of "just for the next expansion". The fact that it's the start of a saga doesn't change that a new player would have absolutely no idea what is going on if dropped directly into it.

I think this sorta doubles down with Midnight though. If they start in easy peasy Dragonflight and then immediately drop into (what seems like it will be) an all out war against the Void in a massive elven kingdom, there's still a lot of questions.

Bringing TWW as the leveling experience at least leads in many story ties including Xal'atath, Alleria and Anduin who will all be main focuses on top of additional lore about our war with the Void.

- - - Updated - - -

You can still do that. We don't need 3 versions of the Night Elf starting zone. And we don't need 3 versions of starting zone in retail.

Not as a brand new player you can't. I'm referring to day one, new account, first ever character you have to do Exile's Reach before all else.

You're right, you can return and redo the Cata starting zone, but that's not Vanilla. Night Elves are just the example being used. The same can be said for dwarves, or tauren. A new player making a tauren is just making a giant bull because it's cool, they won't know about Mulgore and the nature of their culture.

Making racial starting zones that maybe also work as racial campaigns that can be used as leveling I think can alleviate issues of lack of racial identity that is seriously missing.