The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Lady Atia]

They don't really have to connect the two. They just did an expansion where the second raid was a side-story, they could easily have the raid be about the Venture Co and the zone be Undermine and then continue the Xal'atath business in the megadungeon. Even more so since the entire sword/azerite plotline kicked off with goblins digging for azerite.

Also, if Gally is allied with Xal than it's no longer a side plot per se. Just a different setting which is something Blizzard likes to do in order to avoid fatigue after complains about Orcs and Demons in Mop/WoD and WoD/Legion.

[Nymrohd]

They don't really have to connect the two. They just did an expansion where the second raid was a side-story, they could easily have the raid be about the Venture Co and the zone be Undermine and then continue the Xal'atath business in the megadungeon. Even more so since the entire sword/azerite plotline kicked off with goblins digging for azerite.

We went to Zaralek in the course of the MAIN story, hunting Fyrakk who was the only Incarnate whose location we knew. Yes the raid itself was a side story but it was still the natural conclusion of Zaralek caverns, a location we visited as part of the main story.

Of course we can have mid patch content that is completely a side story; Mechagon was that. But Mechagon came together with Nazjatar.

[allegrian]

Do the leaks mention the silithus sword at all, or was it used just for marketing?

- - - Updated - - -

We went to Zaralek in the course of the MAIN story, hunting Fyrakk who was the only Incarnate whose location we knew. Yes the raid itself was a side story but it was still the natural conclusion of Zaralek caverns, a location we visited as part of the main story.

Of course we can have mid patch content that is completely a side story; Mechagon was that. But Mechagon came together with Nazjatar.

Aberrus and sarkareth felt like complete filler but DF's story overall felt like a directionless mess with no clear theme.

-We start with raszageth and wanting to use titan powers/oathstones to get the aspect powers back, they male a big deal about getting Tyr to help with that.

-We drop the titan stuff to focus on the new incarnates and the aberrus side story and get ebyssian as aspect after having 0 buildup in the base patch.

-Bronze dragon stuff loosely linked to TWW which would have more interesting than aberrus as a main content patch + raid.

-We then put the SL and 10.0 side story at the forefront to given a new home to night elves, who had barely any presence in the previous patches. Then the aspects get their powers back randomly from the tree after having abandoned that subplot for 2 patches and the tyr story ends up feeling useless and abandoned.

I hope TWW doesn't feel that way with its content patches.

[Polybius]

Why would Xal'atath go to a goblin for transportation to the World Soul, when she could tap into the Void Ethereals, or the earth elemental Incarnate to do the job? Is her goal to also blow herself up on the way?

Big Undermine drills go brrt. Deathwing already tried that meanwhile Iridikron has his eyes set on the Titans.

[Super Dickmann]

We went to Zaralek in the course of the MAIN story, hunting Fyrakk who was the only Incarnate whose location we knew. Yes the raid itself was a side story but it was still the natural conclusion of Zaralek caverns, a location we visited as part of the main story.

Sure, but in Zaralek Fyrakk pisses off halfway through to do his thing. The raid itself has nothing to do with him or with the overarching Incarnate plot. You could easily do something similar with the goblin raid.

[Polybius]

Do the leaks mention the silithus sword at all, or was it used just for marketing?

It comes up in a storyline but nothing much happens. For now it's marketing the Worldsoul Saga.

[Super Dickmann]

Then the aspects get their powers back randomly from the tree after having abandoned that subplot for 2 patches and the tyr story ends up feeling useless and abandoned.

There are a lot of points to make against the DF story, chief of all that it's profoundly boring, but its basic gist is so by the book and basic that I struggle to get where these takes come from. The obvious arc of the story is that the dragons head to the isle to get their powers by fulfilling their Titan instructions while facing the baddies, who oppose them based on following those same instructions. The instructions don't work though and they instead go on their individual arcs (except Alex lol) and ultimately get their powers back from the planet instead of from an outside force, countering both the Incarnates' position that they're lackeys and showing a synthesis between getting your powers from the world like said Incarnates, but not being a dick. The Tyr plotline is an accompaniment to that, it's quixotic on purpose because neither he nor the Titans can magic their powers back, they've got to earn them and they do so by doing what they've summarily failed at throughout their entire screentime up to this point and actually beating the baddie.

Now you can argue this story is trite or that the Aspects and the Flights are dull, and you'd be correct, but it's structurally pretty transparent and the beats it hits are so telegraphed and clear that the NPCs literally finish each other's sentences communicating them - "The real powers were the friends we made along the way".

[Nymrohd]

Sure, but in Zaralek Fyrakk pisses off halfway through to do his thing. The raid itself has nothing to do with him or with the overarching Incarnate plot. You could easily do something similar with the goblin raid.

To that I'd say that a story can have B-plots. One of those for DF was the Dracthyr. Aberrus is an important part of their story. It is also a resolution to the Black Dragonflight story just like the Blue Flight quests and Azure Vault or the DotI megadungeon do for Blue and Bronze (I still have no idea why the reds get completely shafted).
If we go to Undermine, I expect it will be tied to a story that is developed in the leveling campaign of TWW.

But here is the thing. There are two obvious zones linked to Khaz Algar. One is obvious due to the map; Elun'ahir. We have a zone-sized area effectively missing from the map structure with roots in the adjoining zones. But the second is the core. The entire point of the Earthen seems to be to maintain the Coreway. So I'd assume the Core would be a zone as well. If we have two zones already, why do we need a third? Unless of course the roots are in the core? In which case Elun'ahir is pretty much a Life-based Old God that actually succeeded where the Old Gods failed. And that would honestly be a cool take.

So Kezan and Undermine may not happen as zones. A goblin raid could be a massive ship.

Also, maybe they'd do a season with multiple raids! maybe the goblin raid will be in season 1 at 11.0.5 as some 3 boss yacht.

[allegrian]

There are a lot of points to make against the DF story, chief of all that it's profoundly boring, but its basic gist is so by the book and basic that I struggle to get where these takes come from. The obvious arc of the story is that the dragons head to the isle to get their powers by fulfilling their Titan instructions while facing the baddies, who oppose them based on following those same instructions. The instructions don't work though and they instead go on their individual arcs (except Alex lol) and ultimately get their powers back from the planet instead of from an outside force, countering both the Incarnates' position that they're lackeys and showing a synthesis between getting your powers from the world like said Incarnates, but not being a dick. The Tyr plotline is an accompaniment to that, it's quixotic on purpose because neither he nor the Titans can magic their powers back, they've got to earn them and they do so by doing what they've summarily failed at throughout their entire screentime up to this point and actually beating the baddie.

Now you can argue this story is trite or that the Aspects and the Flights are dull, and you'd be correct, but it's structurally pretty transparent and the beats it hits are so telegraphed and clear that the NPCs literally finish each other's sentences communicating them - "The real powers were the friends we made along the way".

I understand the gist of the story, but the plot points felt barely connected and random. They end up saying the power of friendship/family stuff when the aspects don't interact with each other during the expansion at all, and the final "the cavalry is here moment" vs fyrak features characters from all over the world but not the aspects themselves helping alexstrasza lol.

I think the story pivoted from whatever it was going to be initially when they planned the world soul saga. It also looked like they were going to make the ysera-malfurion switch permanent at the start and cancelled it after the negative feedback.

[Ramz]

Earthen = weird dwarves for everyone
Harronir = weird trolls for everyone

Correction - weird furry night elves. Nothing about them is troll.

Also I don't think they will be playable. And everything points out that Talanji was indeed a placeholder.

[Reive]

the icyveins article is circling around and people are already complaining about the lack of screentime the horde is getting

i hope blizzard doesn't rewrite the plot again

[Cherry123]

I hope this is not the whole plot that was leaked. There's literally only 1 cinematic, all others are on the game engine.

[Sondrelk]

the icyveins article is circling around and people are already complaining about the lack of screentime the horde is getting

i hope blizzard doesn't rewrite the plot again

Even more so when Midnight is looking to be extremely Horde centric. At best we might see some token Nelf representation for the alleged reunification plotline, and probably some scarlet crusade and human/forsaken stuff if my prediction is right on the expansion being more than just Quel'thalas.
Having to squeeze in more Alliance stuff in that expansion would feel far more egregious than forcing in more Horde representation in this expansion.

[Nymrohd]

the icyveins article is circling around and people are already complaining about the lack of screentime the horde is getting

i hope blizzard doesn't rewrite the plot again

I hope they do. They really need to think about parity and not just about their favourites.

- - - Updated - - -

Even more so when Midnight is looking to be extremely Horde centric. At best we might see some token Nelf representation for the alleged reunification plotline, and probably some scarlet crusade and human/forsaken stuff if my prediction is right on the expansion being more than just Quel'thalas.
Having to squeeze in more Alliance stuff in that expansion would feel far more egregious than forcing in more Horde representation in this expansion.

See, I cannot see Midnight as Horde centric. Yes, the blood elves are in the Horde. But thematically they are far closer to the Alliance. Alliance High Elves and Void Elves will be just as much at home as blood elves will be and a human will feel far more at home in Silvermoon than an orc will. And Alliance-centric characters will likely share the space, if not dominate it, with the blood elf cast; Alleria, Anduin, probably Arator and Turalyon.

[Varodoc]

I've just read the leak summary on Icyveins. I am pleased and satisfied.

It would be good if certain partisans would stop making this about factions.

Anduin is not Alliance, he is Anduin. Alleria is not Alliance, she is Alleria. King Bronzebeard is not Alliance, he is King Bronzebeard. This is not a faction plotline, it's a Neutral plotline.

There's nothing interesting that can be done with "Horde" characters anyway.

[Cherry123]

In my opinion, Blizzard is definitely regressing in cinematic. They never learned how to add shadows to their cinematic and their footage looks like it was from the early 2010s. And instead of progress, they refuse to improve their cinematic engine in favor of the game engine, making the movements even stupider at the level of games of the 2000s.

[Varodoc]

the icyveins article is circling around and people are already complaining about the lack of screentime the horde is getting

i hope blizzard doesn't rewrite the plot again

Uhm, No, that will never happen.

Writing and voice acting are the earlest parts of game development, there is absolutely no way that Blizzard will change them in a significant way and it's never happened before.

[Cherry123]

I've just read the leak summary on Icyveins. I am pleased and satisfied.

It would be good if certain partisans would stop making this about factions.

Anduin is not Alliance, he is Anduin. Alleria is not Alliance, she is Alleria. King Bronzebeard is not Alliance, he is King Bronzebeard. This is not a faction plotline, it's a Neutral plotline.

There's nothing interesting that can be done with "Horde" characters anyway.

Anduin is definitely not the Alliance, Varian Wrynn, yes, he is a true patriot, he died with the words For the Alliance, Anduin is just a neutral whiner!

[Reive]

Even more so when Midnight is looking to be extremely Horde centric. At best we might see some token Nelf representation for the alleged reunification plotline, and probably some scarlet crusade and human/forsaken stuff if my prediction is right on the expansion being more than just Quel'thalas.
Having to squeeze in more Alliance stuff in that expansion would feel far more egregious than forcing in more Horde representation in this expansion.

also because rewriting the plot so close to the release is a bad idea.

I hope they do. They really need to think about parity and not just about their favourites.

nah they need to do their thing.

[Varodoc]

Anduin is definitely not the Alliance, Varian Wrynn, yes, he is a true patriot, he died with the words For the Alliance, Anduin is just a neutral whiner!

Yes, Anduin is a Neutral character.

Anduin in the spotlight is not Alliance spotlight, it's Anduin spotlight, because Anduin is Neutral.

Writers aren't thinking in terms of factions, but partisans are going to partisans and always bring up factions. They just can't help themselves from making this about factions.

I wonder, where were all these partisans during Legion/BfA/SL aka the Sylvanas Saga? Must have felt good back then, huh?