The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Reive]

Even more so when Midnight is looking to be extremely Horde centric. At best we might see some token Nelf representation for the alleged reunification plotline, and probably some scarlet crusade and human/forsaken stuff if my prediction is right on the expansion being more than just Quel'thalas.
Having to squeeze in more Alliance stuff in that expansion would feel far more egregious than forcing in more Horde representation in this expansion.

also because rewriting the plot so close to the release is a bad idea.

I hope they do. They really need to think about parity and not just about their favourites.

nah they need to do their thing.

[Varodoc]

Anduin is definitely not the Alliance, Varian Wrynn, yes, he is a true patriot, he died with the words For the Alliance, Anduin is just a neutral whiner!

Yes, Anduin is a Neutral character.

Anduin in the spotlight is not Alliance spotlight, it's Anduin spotlight, because Anduin is Neutral.

Writers aren't thinking in terms of factions, but partisans are going to partisans and always bring up factions. They just can't help themselves from making this about factions.

I wonder, where were all these partisans during Legion/BfA/SL aka the Sylvanas Saga? Must have felt good back then, huh?

[Reive]

In my opinion, Blizzard is definitely regressing in cinematic. They never learned how to add shadows to their cinematic and their footage looks like it was from the early 2010s. And instead of progress, they refuse to improve their cinematic engine in favor of the game engine, making the movements even stupider at the level of games of the 2000s.

they can do really good cinematics with the game engine. they just don't do many of them

[Cherry123]

they can do really good cinematics with the game engine. they just don't do many of them

Sorry but I don't think so. It's just that animations with toad mouths are too much for 2024. Pre-rendered cinematics also suffer from a lack of shadows and it looks stupid when the color of the character does not match the world around him.

[Raetary]

I hope they do. They really need to think about parity and not just about their favourites.

I don't think parity is a good thing.
It usually stunts their narrative capabilities.
Just look at literally any faction conflict plotline.

What they need to do is learn to utlize their vast array of characters, and include adjacent cultures/characters in their grander narratives.

[Nymrohd]

I don't think parity is a good thing.
It usually stunts their narrative capabilities.
Just look at literally any faction conflict plotline.

What they need to do is learn to utlize their vast array of characters, and include adjacent cultures/characters in their grander narratives.

This is a difference of opinions I guess. For me the story of an RPG should engage the audience first and foremost. If I try to steer the story in my tabletop games in a direction that only half the table is interested it over an entire campaign, the other half will just not be entertained as much and that will be my failure as a GM. For me they should always plan the story around engaging as much of their player base as possible.

[Hitei]

Throne of Thunder? Highmaul? Emerald Nightmare? Trial of Valor? All of these were side plots.

Not really? Throne of Thunder was where the entireMogu plotline from pandaria was pointing, and the direct continuation of the plotline from MSV and Kun-Lai. Emerald Nightmare was a massive ongoing threat in the region and the storyline of one of the four initial campaign parts for Broken Isles. I literally addressed Trial of Valor in that post.

I don't know how you can possibly rationalize Dazar'alor a "side plot", when it was the culmination of both sets of war campaigns, and the Zandalar campaign and the climactic moment of the whole naval faction war that was the entire reason for going to Zandalar and KT in the first place.

[Lady Atia]

Not really? Throne of Thunder was where the entireMogu plotline from pandaria was pointing, and the direct continuation of the plotline from MSV and Kun-Lai. Emerald Nightmare was a massive ongoing threat in the region and the storyline of one of the four initial campaign parts for Broken Isles. I literally addressed Trial of Valor in that post.

I don't know how you can possibly rationalize Dazar'alor a "side plot", when it was the culmination of both sets of war campaigns, and the Zandalar campaign and the climactic moment of the whole naval faction war that was the entire reason for going to Zandalar and KT in the first place.

Throne of Thunder had nothing to do with MoP's main plot, which was the faction war and the sha. Emerald Nightmare was a side plot from one level zone that didn't really had anything to do with the Burning Legion other than that Xavius did ally with them to do a two front war, but it didn't feature any demons at all. And again, you can call Daza a side plot if you figure out that the real main plot was supposed to be the N'Zoth stuff but shitty Afrasiabi wanted his "faction war in order to make Sylvanas a dead raidboss" in the initial concept of the expansion. The whole faction war shit was the bad b plot of BfA, so literally THE SIDE STORY ...

And no, we wouldn't have needed it to visit Zandalar/Kul Tiras, both already had void problems going on, and they could have made Aszhara attack Horde and Alliance at the start which would have made us searching new allies for fleets in order to go to Nazjatar. There, 100000x better plot than BFA ...

Edit: Again, the problem is that you think a side plot can't be important lol, it just means it's not literally the main plot of an expansion. Every one has side plots, and some get resolved in a side raid. I mean you could call Aberrus the literal side plot raid of Dragonflight simply because none of the Incarnates were there lol. You could have skipped it without any issues.

[Hitei]

Throne of Thunder had nothing to do with MoP's main plot, which was the faction war and the sha. Emerald Nightmare was a side plot from one level zone that didn't really had anything to do with the Burning Legion other than that Xavius did ally with them to do a two front war, but it didn't feature any demons at all. And again, you can call Daza a side plot if you figure out that the real main plot was supposed to be the N'Zoth stuff but shitty Afrasiabi wanted his "faction war in order to make Sylvanas a dead raidboss" in the initial concept of the expansion. The whole faction war shit was the bad b plot of BfA, so literally THE SIDE STORY ...

It had everything to do with the Mogu, who were one of the major antagonists of the expansion, major enemies in three of the zones AND the primary enemy of the end game zone, a dungeon and the entire first raid tier.

What are you even not considering a side plot here? Apparently everything that happened in MoP before 5.4 was a side plot since that expansion wasn't actually about pandaria, which wasn't about the Sha showing up on rare occasion, but about Garrosh's war. Are Black Temple and SSC side raids because the actual enemy of BC is the Legion and that was the plot of the final raid? Only one leveling zone is about the naga, so it must be.

What is this logic even? And how is Afrasiabi so rent free in your head that you base the straightforward plot relevance of a raid tier on who fucking decided on the background writing decisions.

And no, we wouldn't have needed it to visit Zandalar/Kul Tiras, both already had void problems going on, and they could have made Aszhara attack Horde and Alliance at the start which would have made us searching new allies for fleets in order to go to Nazjatar. There, 100000x better plot than BFA ...

"Bro, the entire BC expansion is side plot because they could have just made Kael attack Azeroth and we could have just gone straight to Sunwell"


Okay, I'm glad we've established that your definitions of side and main plots are utterly meaningless.

[allegrian]

Correction - weird furry night elves. Nothing about them is troll.

Also I don't think they will be playable. And everything points out that Talanji was indeed a placeholder.

That's correct, so horde keeps getting alliance races thus dilluting the faction/becoming an alliance/horde mergen, while the alliance doesn't get core horde adjacent races.

[Makorus]

The whole "If the main character are not of my own faction, I do not care for the story" mentality is baffling, especially when it's been so, so long since we had faction exclusive content that's relevant to these characters.

[Reive]

the more i read the more i'm convinced they shouldn't have diluted factions so much.

[Scyth]

The whole "If the main character are not of my own faction, I do not care for the story" mentality is baffling, especially when it's been so, so long since we had faction exclusive content that's relevant to these characters.

I don't get it either but I'm also not that invested in the factions. I am more invested in the characters and right now I'm just excited for Alleria to get some development. And to see more of Xal obviously lol

[Ersula]

That's correct, so horde keeps getting alliance races thus dilluting the faction/becoming an alliance/horde mergen, while the alliance doesn't get core horde adjacent races.

If we're basing what counts as a "Horde race" on "Races that were typically monsters & villains in D&D" the Dark Iron Dwarves should have been horde. Duergar are one of the eviler fantasy races.

If anything I'm expecting Farronir to be neutral like Earthen. Half nelf, half troll. Even if they are the ugliest race in the entire game. I can't believe they skipped over Tuskarr & Gnolls.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, Anduin is a Neutral character.

Anduin in the spotlight is not Alliance spotlight, it's Anduin spotlight, because Anduin is Neutral.

Writers aren't thinking in terms of factions, but partisans are going to partisans and always bring up factions. They just can't help themselves from making this about factions.

I wonder, where were all these partisans during Legion/BfA/SL aka the Sylvanas Saga? Must have felt good back then, huh?

If anduin is a neutral character, than so is Sylvanas & that would mean a Horde character hasn't gotten story focus in 3 whole expansions.

[Reive]

they said in a recent interview that they don't want faction tension and identity to die.

hope they remember that

[Makorus]

Yes, Anduin is a Neutral character.

Anduin in the spotlight is not Alliance spotlight, it's Anduin spotlight, because Anduin is Neutral.

Writers aren't thinking in terms of factions, but partisans are going to partisans and always bring up factions. They just can't help themselves from making this about factions.

I wonder, where were all these partisans during Legion/BfA/SL aka the Sylvanas Saga? Must have felt good back then, huh?

This whole "Counting how many characters of a race (because it's not even faction, let's be honest, every human is Alliance, and every orc is Horde)" is beyond stupid and just shows why faction content will never work in WoW. The player base just couldn't handle asymetrical faction storytelling. You couldn't have a faction win a war/battle because it would be favoritism!

[Ersula]

This whole "Counting how many characters of a race (because it's not even faction, let's be honest, every human is Alliance, and every orc is Horde)" is beyond stupid and just shows why faction content will never work in WoW. The player base just couldn't handle asymetrical faction storytelling. You couldn't have a faction win a war/battle because it would be favoritism!

Anduin was literally the leader of the Alliance. wtf are you talking about. I don't think it's too much to ask for the established horde characters to be part of the story. And if anything the Alliance stans are doing the majority of the complaining after spending years on nothing but Night Elf drama the forsaken got a little story focus in 10.2 and they collectively had a hissy fit.

[Lady Atia]

It had everything to do with the Mogu, who were one of the major antagonists of the expansion, major enemies in three of the zones AND the primary enemy of the end game zone, a dungeon and the entire first raid tier.

What are you even not considering a side plot here? Apparently everything that happened in MoP before 5.4 was a side plot since that expansion wasn't actually about pandaria, which wasn't about the Sha showing up on rare occasion, but about Garrosh's war. Are Black Temple and SSC side raids because the actual enemy of BC is the Legion and that was the plot of the final raid? Only one leveling zone is about the naga, so it must be.

What is this logic even? And how is Afrasiabi so rent free in your head that you base the straightforward plot relevance of a raid tier on who fucking decided on the background writing decisions.




"Bro, the entire BC expansion is side plot because they could have just made Kael attack Azeroth and we could have just gone straight to Sunwell"


Okay, I'm glad we've established that your definitions of side and main plots are utterly meaningless.

Yes because you have one MAIN plot and several SIDE plots during an expansion. Hence people define the raids that are about the side plot as side raids or filler raids. That's how it allways worked, no clue why you want to define it differently lol.

Also, you can't really take tbc's storytelling as serious since they just took warcraft III heroes and turn them into bosses for some weird reason, which they than had to retcon with Legion, lol.

[allegrian]

If we're basing what counts as a "Horde race" on "Races that were typically monsters & villains in D&D" the Dark Iron Dwarves should have been horde. Duergar are one of the eviler fantasy races.

If anything I'm expecting Farronir to be neutral like Earthen. Half nelf, half troll. Even if they are the ugliest race in the entire game. I can't believe they skipped over Tuskarr & Gnolls.

- - - Updated - - -


If anduin is a neutral character, than so is Sylvanas & that would mean a Horde character hasn't gotten story focus in 3 whole expansions.

Evil is not equal to horde theme, dark irons are dwarves at the end of the day with similar themes and culture, so they fit the alliance more, like earthen.

[Makorus]

Anduin was literally the leader of the Alliance. wtf are you talking about. I don't think it's too much to ask for the established horde characters to be part of the story. And if anything the Alliance stans are doing the majority of the complaining after spending years on nothing but Night Elf drama the forsaken got a little story focus in 10.2 and they collectively had a hissy fit.

Who cares if Anduin has been the leader of the Alliance? Is the inclusion of him leading to an Alliance-theme story being told? That's why this whole situation is laughable. Would changing Anduin for Thrall change anything other than you going "Oh, he horde, i recognize "?

Not even to mention the fact that the Anduin story that is being told now and has been since SL is purely neutral anyway.