The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

Who cares if Anduin has been the leader of the Alliance? Is the inclusion of him leading to an Alliance-theme story being told? That's why this whole situation is laughable. Would changing Anduin for Thrall change anything other than you going "Oh, he horde, i recognize "?

Not even to mention the fact that the Anduin story that is being told now and has been since SL is purely neutral anyway.

That depends on him ultimately rejoining the Alliance. Not to mention Alleria is firmly Alliance & appears to get and will get the primary story focus for the foreseeable future.

Evil is not equal to horde theme, dark irons are dwarves at the end of the day with similar themes and culture, so they fit the alliance more, like earthen.

You're right, evil doesn't equate to the horde theme, but warcraft is largely unique in taking those races portrayed as antagonists in the fantasy genre & making them sympathetic. If that's not the Horde's theme, the horde doesn't have a theme. The Dark Iron & Ironforge were at war for the first 3 expansions so I think they could have gone either way.

[Dancaris]

Not even to mention the fact that the Anduin story that is being told now and has been since SL is purely neutral anyway.

So, if Anduin story is neutral, so Sylvanas was too? So Horde didn't get shit from BfA. Baine questchain was also neutral by that logic btw. What else?

[Makabreska]

So, if Anduin story is neutral, so Sylvanas was too? So Horde didn't get shit from BfA. Baine questchain was also neutral by that logic btw. What else?

Eh, no. Sylvi story cannot be "neutral" when during it she, as a Warchief, attacked Alliance unprovoked to feed souls to Jailer. Like, come on.

[Makorus]

That depends on him ultimately rejoining the Alliance. Not to mention Alleria is firmly Alliance & appears to get and will get the primary story focus for the foreseeable future.
You're right, evil doesn't equate to the horde theme, but warcraft is largely unique in taking those races portrayed as antagonists in the fantasy genre & making them sympathetic. If that's not the Horde's theme, the horde doesn't have a theme. The Dark Iron & Ironforge were at war for the first 3 expansions so I think they could have gone either way.

Once again: Alleria being in the Alliance does not make it an Alliance story. It's just Alliance characters being there. Would Alleria being replaced by Thrall make it a Horde story?

A good example is the Tyrande Quests in SL vs. the Tyrande Quests in Suramar. One is a neutral questline that happens to be about an Alliance character, the other one is an Alliance questline.

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So, if Anduin story is neutral, so Sylvanas was too? So Horde didn't get shit from BfA. Baine questchain was also neutral by that logic btw. What else?

No, because Sylvanas acted as a Warchief in that situation, throughout the entire storyline. It was inherently about the Horde lmao. What are you even yapping about.

The Sylvanas storyline in SL is neutral, yeah.

People are gonna think I am an Alliance fanatic when all my characters are Horde lmao.

[Ersula]

A good example is the Tyrande Quests in SL vs. the Tyrande Quests in Suramar. One is a neutral questline that happens to be about an Alliance character, the other one is an Alliance questline.

Uh, besides Tyrande's role in Suramar is her showing up for 5 minutes, be rude to the Nightborne which ultimately leads to them joining the Horde...you can count that as a Horde storyline.

Focusing on Tyrande in SL and Dragonflight is the entire problem: Those weren't Neutral questlines. They were Alliance questlines, because the Horde has divested interest in any of it: Thrall & Anduin might be able to participate in neutral storylines, but I have reasonable doubt that's whats going to happen. Primarily because when Alliance characters are involved, the writers seem to turn storylines that should be neutral into things only the alliance care about.

[allegrian]

That depends on him ultimately rejoining the Alliance. Not to mention Alleria is firmly Alliance & appears to get and will get the primary story focus for the foreseeable future.
You're right, evil doesn't equate to the horde theme, but warcraft is largely unique in taking those races portrayed as antagonists in the fantasy genre & making them sympathetic. If that's not the Horde's theme, the horde doesn't have a theme. The Dark Iron & Ironforge were at war for the first 3 expansions so I think they could have gone either way.

Dark irons hated orcs more than other dwarves anyway.

[Ersula]

Dark irons hated orcs more than other dwarves anyway.

Just the Blackrock orcs, who were ostensibly not part of the Horde. The Horde were also at war with the Blackrock Orcs; it would have made perfect sense for Dark Iron to join them.

Blood Elves switching sides had more narrative justification in Warcraft 3 than Night Elves joining the Alliance.

[allegrian]

Just the Blackrock orcs, who were ostensibly not part of the Horde. The Horde were also at war with the Blackrock Orcs; it would have made perfect sense for Dark Iron to join them.

Blood Elves switching sides had more narrative justification in Warcraft 3 than Night Elves joining the Alliance.

Night elves joining the horde would've made less sense than alliance and they had to choose one so here we are.

[Raetary]

The whole "If the main character are not of my own faction, I do not care for the story" mentality is baffling, especially when it's been so, so long since we had faction exclusive content that's relevant to these characters.

Wow is a big fantasy franchise that encompasses a lot of different themes, aesthetics, characters and cultures.
So, just like in every bigger fantasy franchise, you'll have a segmented community with differing tastes and interests.

The problem isn't necessarily the narrative focus on Anduin and co., but rather the neglect the writers have for the rest their established world.

People bring up the factions, because wows 2 factions make it very easy to see and compare what relevant races/cultures/themes have not seen daylight in a while and which ones have a constant spotlight above their head.
And when you look at the themes and characters represented in the narrative over the last 2 expansions and the themes and characters of the next 3, it's predominantly characters and themes that are found in, lean towards or are favored by the Alliance.

The writers are are harshly neglecting wows tribal themes, which are primarily represented by the horde.
So no fucking shit you'll have people complaining about how much 'Anduin and friends' content we are getting, or how elf-centric it is.

[Jastall]

Night elves joining the horde would've made less sense than alliance and they had to choose one so here we are.

I'd argue them starring in a third faction would have been far more interesting than forcing everyone in the red or blue blobs, but vanilla itself already showed the genie was out of the bottle on that one, and TBC completely killed the idea of cohesive faction aesthetics and identity by adding Blood Elves to the Horde so that they would have a pretty race to play with. It makes sense from a player demographics point of view but I still don't have to like it, and would far have preferred 3-4 factions to the current mess.

It's why Horde getting dwarves doesn't stress me in the slightest. They've had classic elves for close to 20 years now, who cares.

[Cherry123]

For the Alliance, Anduin has never been a leader. He's just a joke and a disgrace to his father. Now there is a courageous man on the throne and not a soy-boy. When we say Turalyon! we speak FOR THE ALLIANCE!

So oh well, Anduin was never a character in the alliance, except perhaps as a Horde agent who destroyed the alliance from within.

What about the Horde, are you okay? your next expansion will be around the Horde city!

Imagine if we didn't have TWW with underground spiders, but Stormwind and the problems of the people of Stormwind, and you’re still talking about bias?

[Skildar]

and the conversation shifts to Sylvanas, the rule still stands...

[Nymrohd]

and the conversation shifts to Sylvanas, the rule still stands...

She was barely mentioned.

[Ersula]

What about the Horde, are you okay? your next expansion will be around the Horde city!

Alleria's presence throws that into question. They could make a quel'thalas storyline all about her very easily.

Ysera: Children of the Forest, come to my aid; a great evil threatens all life in the universe.
Tyrnade: How do I make this entirely about Darnassus?

Alexstrasa: Welcome to the Dragon Isles.
Tyrande: I'm going to demand you give us another world tree; which only benefits the Night Elves & creates a situation that almost destroys the entire planet, which I will face zero consequences for. Also I'm the only faction leader who even appears in this expansion.

Even though they should have been, these were not "neutral" storylines.

[Skildar]

I remember when the BfA zandalari were first shown, their animations and rigs were identical to those of the night elves. But I remember this from footages of the tests being made at blizzcon reveal. I don't know if they have time to do the same treatment to earthens for TWW

[Super Dickmann]

and the conversation shifts to Sylvanas, the rule still stands...

I am a prophet. My words are eternal.

I am shocked that people actually wasted their time on discourse about whether the High King of the Alliance being the main character constituted an Alliance-themed story over a Horde one. A story about a human priest's struggle with his human faith and its relation to his leadership over the human kingdom and his buddy, the Alliance high elf leader in charge of the local chapter of the Alliance high elves and a main Alliance character since WC2 is an Alliance story. Any discourse about it is manifestly disingenuous.

That having been said, while TWW is an Alliance story, it's also a dwarf story, a race that's been dicked from Vanilla onwards who badly need the screentime. There's nothing worth doing with Thrall, Baine et al. They're worthless, and the story is better for their absence. The story would also be better for focusing on the dwarves. Opportunities were missed for shamans just now by centering the most shamanic expansion on night elves and druids, nothing short of a potential dark troll link with a rewrite of the locals to tie in with the Zandalari would be interesting, which is the main miss of the expansion. A prominent goblin role would also be much appreciated and worth pushing.

[Varodoc]

I am a prophet. My words are eternal.

I am shocked that people actually wasted their time on discourse about whether the High King of the Alliance being the main character constituted an Alliance-themed story over a Horde one.

Yeah, why do people keep talking about Sylvanas? She's neither popular nor iconic. That is why the expansion she helmed (BfA) was pitiful in terms of subs, while the following expansion, Shadowlands, helmed by King Bolvar, performed much better.

Haha, people keep talking about Sylvanas, isn't it funny? I mean, she clearly isn't popular, so she will never return! Of all the Windrunner family members, she is the least liked and most unpopular, she will NEVER return, so why even bring her up haha?

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I am shocked that people actually wasted their time on discourse about whether the High King of the Alliance being the main character constituted an Alliance-themed story over a Horde one.

Anduin is no longer the High King of the Alliance.

[Ersula]

I remember when the BfA zandalari were first shown, their animations and rigs were identical to those of the night elves. But I remember this from footages of the tests being made at blizzcon reveal. I don't know if they have time to do the same treatment to earthens for TWW

They weren't tho. Some people thought this just because the male zandalari troll standing upright looked very similar to a night elf. They definitely won't be doing an animation overhaul for Earthen: People are already playing them in the Alpha.

Yeah, why do people keep talking about Sylvanas? She's neither popular nor iconic. That is why the expansion she helmed (BfA) was pitiful in terms of subs, while the following expansion, Shadowlands, helmed by King Bolvar, performed much better.

So Shadowlands wasn't the worst selling expansion ever, now, apparently.

[Super Dickmann]

But here is the thing. There are two obvious zones linked to Khaz Algar. One is obvious due to the map; Elun'ahir. We have a zone-sized area effectively missing from the map structure with roots in the adjoining zones. But the second is the core. The entire point of the Earthen seems to be to maintain the Coreway. So I'd assume the Core would be a zone as well. If we have two zones already, why do we need a third? Unless of course the roots are in the core? In which case Elun'ahir is pretty much a Life-based Old God that actually succeeded where the Old Gods failed. And that would honestly be a cool take.

The Core and Elun'ahir being one and the same seems likely a route to go. After an entire expansion in caves or in industrial areas it'd also lend itself to Blizzard's recent pivot to lush and inviting areas for their potential wrap-up. You could have roots wrapped up around the final stabbing point of Sargeras's sword to make a double biome and also set up the beats of the Last Titan. As for the Undermine or another goblin area, it could be an entirely separate thing, or it could be a surface area, possibly an entirely industrial area or an oil rig or what have you, to do a beat that's not carried to its finale. I'm waiting to see the actual dungeon content to commit to it. Mini-raids are unlikely as Blizzard have standardized their raid schedule by this point and miniraids aren't a part of it.

[Varodoc]

I am so happy that Alleria and Anduin will be the Main Characters of the Worldsoul Saga.

Words cannot possibly contain the excitement I am feeling right now for who will be the MCs of the Saga (aka Anduin and Alleria).