The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Super Dickmann]

I understand the gist of the story, but the plot points felt barely connected and random. They end up saying the power of friendship/family stuff when the aspects don't interact with each other during the expansion at all, and the final "the cavalry is here moment" vs fyrak features characters from all over the world but not the aspects themselves helping alexstrasza lol.

I think the story pivoted from whatever it was going to be initially when they planned the world soul saga. It also looked like they were going to make the ysera-malfurion switch permanent at the start and cancelled it after the negative feedback.

No, the cavalry moment is shit, to be sure, but the story isn't random. It's just inept. The main exception to it is the obvious rewrite around Ysera, who was obviously meant to fully return in the role, built up for the last expansion in this direction, only to be sidelined for her even more boring daughter after (night elf) complaints, making her role in the Dream pointless and still ending up with Malfurion written out at the end, just in a slightly different way. But every part of the oathstone -> failure -> fulfilling of individual flight arc -> empowerment by the planet arc was consistent throughout. It is rushed and of poor quality, but it's coherent in the beats it means to hit.

[Sondrelk]

That having been said, while TWW is an Alliance story, it's also a dwarf story, a race that's been dicked from Vanilla onwards who badly need the screentime. There's nothing worth doing with Thrall, Baine et al. They're worthless, and the story is better for their absence. The story would also be better for focusing on the dwarves. Opportunities were missed for shamans just now by centering the most shamanic expansion on night elves and druids, nothing short of a potential dark troll link with a rewrite of the locals to tie in with the Zandalari would be interesting, which is the main miss of the expansion. A prominent goblin role would also be much appreciated and worth pushing.

This is a good point. Because while TWW is very Alliance centric what with Dwarves and Humans, it's also quite fresh given Dwarves didnt really get any focus since Cataclysm. Not to mention that while Humans being important meme is true, WoW really doesnt do much human centric storytelling. We had Kul'tiras, but before then I don't think there was much of anything besides zone specific storylines in Cataclysm, or Bolvar and Tyrion in Wrath.

What is way too prominent in the story is Nelf storylines. We had them in this expansion. We had them in the last expansion. We had them in BfA. We had them in Legion. Even WoD was nice enough to ensure we had the Warden character to ensure players didnt suffer from Nelf withdrawal.
Horde at least gets some diversity in their storytelling. Sometimes it's trolls, sometimes it's tauren, sometimes it's orcs. It's not like every time there is a storyline about a Horde race it's almost exclusively about Goblins.

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Yeah, why do people keep talking about Sylvanas? She's neither popular nor iconic. That is why the expansion she helmed (BfA) was pitiful in terms of subs, while the following expansion, Shadowlands, helmed by King Bolvar, performed much better.

Haha, people keep talking about Sylvanas, isn't it funny? I mean, she clearly isn't popular, so she will never return! Of all the Windrunner family members, she is the least liked and most unpopular, she will NEVER return, so why even bring her up haha?

Because most of the issues surrounding the writing between the start of Legion and the end of SL center around Sylvanas.
She was written very oddly in Stormheim. The faction war in BfA was because of her. And she was a major antagonist in the first half of SL, and had a baffling heel turn in the latter half that made even less sense for her character.

Basically she is the forum punching bag due to her innate hateability as a narrative tool. The Hitler comparisions are apt, because every time you need an example of something horrible you point to them. For Hitler it's about how evil they are. And for Sylvanas how terribly written it is, and how it poisons the narrative.

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The Core and Elun'ahir being one and the same seems likely a route to go. After an entire expansion in caves or in industrial areas it'd also lend itself to Blizzard's recent pivot to lush and inviting areas for their potential wrap-up. You could have roots wrapped up around the final stabbing point of Sargeras's sword to make a double biome and also set up the beats of the Last Titan. As for the Undermine or another goblin area, it could be an entirely separate thing, or it could be a surface area, possibly an entirely industrial area or an oil rig or what have you, to do a beat that's not carried to its finale. I'm waiting to see the actual dungeon content to commit to it. Mini-raids are unlikely as Blizzard have standardized their raid schedule by this point and miniraids aren't a part of it.

I am curious how they would make it differ from the Ringing Depths or Amirdrassil though. Both would be very recent, and both seem to be taking the concepts Elun'ahir would take. Amirdrassil obviously by being a world tree, and Ringing Depths by being a lush underground zone.

Heavy Titan influence would be a good option, though would have to wait and see I suppose.

[Ersula]

Because most of the issues surrounding the writing between the start of Legion and the end of SL center around Sylvanas.

We only mentioned sylvanas in relation to the claim Anduin is a neutral character because he is not (arguably) currently participating in the alliance. Everyone relax.

[Sondrelk]

We only mentioned sylvanas in relation to the claim Anduin is a neutral character because he is not (arguably) currently participating in the alliance. Everyone relax.

It's so easy to get sidetracked by Sylvanas.
Every time I hear that name I am transported back to how much I wanted to love BfA, and how much that expansion continously disappointed me...

[Super Dickmann]

This is a good point. Because while TWW is very Alliance centric what with Dwarves and Humans, it's also quite fresh given Dwarves didnt really get any focus since Cataclysm. Not to mention that while Humans being important meme is true, WoW really doesnt do much human centric storytelling. We had Kul'tiras, but before then I don't think there was much of anything besides zone specific storylines in Cataclysm, or Bolvar and Tyrion in Wrath.

In general, TWW's choice of main cast is correct and sensible, Anduin being as prominent as he is notwithstanding. No one is more related to the void re: Xal'atath than Alleria and there's no characters to engage with it more appropriate than her, especially if your follow-up will be elf-focused. Anduin meeting a holy civilization and struggling with the void also checks out, in so far as his loss of faith gels with both the upcoming void-focused expansion and the overarching plot of the saga about disillusionment with your maker/object of faith regarding the Titans. The dwarves too are no-brainers.

The place for a Horde storyline here is through roughly three odd avenues - the goblins, obviously from the standpoint of exploiting the earth and being the main industrial race opposite the dwarves, the trolls, supposing the bat people are dark trolls but even if not in opposition to the Arathi as descendants of the race that broke the back of the Amani, and on the sidelines for Calia (pbuh) with her meeting a holy undead-related civilization and for Thrall, because a shaman has the most grounds to be in touch with the World Soul. Thrall as Anduin's therapist - pointless, groundless, any tauren or blood elf content - completely off-topic. The Allied races - lol.

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I am curious how they would make it differ from the Ringing Depths or Amirdrassil though. Both would be very recent, and both seem to be taking the concepts Elun'ahir would take. Amirdrassil obviously by being a world tree, and Ringing Depths by being a lush underground zone.

Heavy Titan influence would be a good option, though would have to wait and see I suppose.

It's not that lost a cause, in so far as being built around the base of the sword would give a visual signifier, color-coded and givng room to apply the badly underused red Titan Antorus complex design from the tail end of it. Additionally, while Blizzard have done endless amounts of insufferable night elf forest zones, they've only done zones which have a tree, not a tree zone. I'm thinking something like Deeproot Depths, the first part of Haligtree in Elden Ring or the hollow leading to Ash Lake in Dark Souls, with an organic or crystalline effect to set it apart.

[Sondrelk]

The place for a Horde storyline here is through roughly three odd avenues - the goblins, obviously from the standpoint of exploiting the earth and being the main industrial race opposite the dwarves, the trolls, supposing the bat people are dark trolls but even if not in opposition to the Arathi as descendants of the race that broke the back of the Amani, and on the sidelines for Calia (pbuh) with her meeting a holy undead-related civilization and for Thrall, because a shaman has the most grounds to be in touch with the World Soul. Thrall as Anduin's therapist - pointless, groundless, any tauren or blood elf content - completely off-topic. The Allied races - lol.

And as I said before. I would much rather they go light on the Horde stuff in this expansion, so that when we get to Midnight we can really dive head first into the Horde stuff without feeling like it's too much.
We have the Belves obviously, but also the trolls and more importantly the Forsaken. All of which are ripe for hefty storylines centered around the relevant areas.

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It's not that lost a cause, in so far as being built around the base of the sword would give a visual signifier, color-coded and givng room to apply the badly underused red Titan Antorus complex design from the tail end of it. Additionally, while Blizzard have done endless amounts of insufferable night elf forest zones, they've only done zones which have a tree, not a tree zone. I'm thinking something like Deeproot Depths, the first part of Haligtree in Elden Ring or the hollow leading to Ash Lake in Dark Souls, with an organic or crystalline effect to set it apart.

That is a decent possibility, sure. Though if we go underground to where the Sword is I would much rather we have a giant Titan or Old God complex. Just really lean into Ahn'Qiraj just being the topmost layer of a vast empire, buried under the sand.

[Raetary]

I am curious how they would make it differ from the Ringing Depths or Amirdrassil though. Both would be very recent, and both seem to be taking the concepts Elun'ahir would take. Amirdrassil obviously by being a world tree, and Ringing Depths by being a lush underground zone.

Heavy Titan influence would be a good option, though would have to wait and see I suppose.

Well, looking at the Harronir models, armor and tents, as well as the general colors of the roots, it looks to me like we are gonna see something that's more akin to Everbloom in aesthetic, but more dusky.

Spoiler: 

Wild tight growths, less neon in color and a shared red-accented thorn aesthetic.

[Cheezits]

Whoever said Elun'ahir is a Life Old God nailed it perfectly. This expansion is all about the different magics throwing shit toward the world soul to try and influence it. And we explore the areas around the core that have been impacted by these

Death- Lich King (already covered, not included because SL trauma)
Void- Old Gods (already covered, gets a shout with Nerubians being Aqir aesthetics and lore)
Light- Beladar
Fel- Gorribal
Order- The Earthen machines and the Coreway (Tyrhold serves this purpose but I guess they are waiting to reveal this in game?)
Life- Elun'ahir

I agree that's it sounds too similar to the Ringing Deeps and the Dream, but I assume there is going to be an aesthetic twist that we aren't expecting.

[CrossNgen]

Disregarding this whole Horde Vs Alliance parity discussion, I do think it's a big bait and switch to have Thrall featured so heavily in the marketing material only to be sidelined 20 minutes into the first zone.

[Cheezits]

Also, with the usual influential parties on Twitter crying about the lack of Horde, are we expecting devs to change it up? Because otherwise, they (not naming names) are going to shit up the community in a tantrum, which WoW really does not need right now.

[CrossNgen]

I feel like listening to anyone who frequents twitter for more than an hour a week is a waste of time. Nothing good can come of it.

[Super Dickmann]

Also, with the usual influential parties on Twitter crying about the lack of Horde, are we expecting devs to change it up? Because otherwise, they (not naming names) are going to shit up the community in a tantrum, which WoW really does not need right now.

More likely that the bitching ensures we're treated to a blood elf-Amani apology and group hug come Midnight than any effect on this expansion. There's simply no real avenue to insert any noblesavage character, short of Thrall filling the Magni niche in speaking with the earth and the goblins, who're already in. I'd be all for the bat people being trolls and this is feasible to adjust, but not very meaty.

[allegrian]

No, the cavalry moment is shit, to be sure, but the story isn't random. It's just inept. The main exception to it is the obvious rewrite around Ysera, who was obviously meant to fully return in the role, built up for the last expansion in this direction, only to be sidelined for her even more boring daughter after (night elf) complaints, making her role in the Dream pointless and still ending up with Malfurion written out at the end, just in a slightly different way. But every part of the oathstone -> failure -> fulfilling of individual flight arc -> empowerment by the planet arc was consistent throughout. It is rushed and of poor quality, but it's coherent in the beats it means to hit.

There wouldn't have been much of a problem with ysera coming back permanently if they didn't try to kill malfurion in a stupid way in exchange. It's understandable night elf fans didn't take a death from one of their man characters after BFA and SL where blizz didn't even kill sylvannas.

[Super Dickmann]

There wouldn't have been much of a problem with ysera coming back permanently if they didn't try to kill malfurion in a stupid way in exchange. It's understandable night elf fans didn't take a death from one of their man characters after BFA and SL where blizz didn't even kill sylvannas.

It was identical treatment, except with Malf it was marginally more respectful and served the purpose of writing out a continued writing handicap of having made him too powerful to enable any sort of conflict and thus perenially nothing. Both he and Sylvanas took a hike with a "be continued" sticker. Night Elf fans could've choked on it and asked for seconds, considering that Sylvanas was removd from her main race and replaced with her exact terminal opposite, with most of the cast written out until an apology quest an expansion later, all in service of turning the Horde into its current incarnation as an Alliance support group.

[Ersula]

Also, with the usual influential parties on Twitter crying about the lack of Horde, are we expecting devs to change it up? Because otherwise, they (not naming names) are going to shit up the community in a tantrum, which WoW really does not need right now.

I know Blizzard is hard-committing to the third expansion in a row with zero horde representation, but don't criticize that because it might hurt the public perception of the brand. (This message was brought to you by the Democratic National Committee of America)

[Plehnard]

We need these 2 as allied races, broken rogue and mok'nathal hunter goes brrrrrrrrr.(not made by me)

And who's gonna play a broken? Serious question. Why implement another race that only a minimal fraction of player would even dare to touch?
They are ugly and most people don't want to play ugly characters. That's why you barely see Kul'Tiran females or mecha gnomes.
Instead of creating another fringe allied race they should spend their resources on more options for the established ones.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

And who's gonna play a broken? Serious question. Why implement another race that only a minimal fraction of player would even dare to touch?
They are ugly and most people don't want to play ugly characters. That's why you barely see Kul'Tiran females or mecha gnomes.
Instead of creating another fringe allied race they should spend their resources on more options for the established ones.

Broken are one of the most iconic races since W3 and Velen already established connection with the Cheftain Hatuun and broken on Argus.

Another thing - They're badass, not ugly.

I know many just like playing with their shiny, pretty barbie dolls, but to me personally it's the most basic b thing and having only "pretty cleaky clean" races is boring, especially another variatons of offshot elves/something.

We should get tuskarr too.

[Khaza-R]

And who's gonna play a broken? Serious question. Why implement another race that only a minimal fraction of player would even dare to touch?
They are ugly and most people don't want to play ugly characters. That's why you barely see Kul'Tiran females or mecha gnomes.
Instead of creating another fringe allied race they should spend their resources on more options for the established ones.

Yes, clearly the game needs a 17th variation of elf instead

[Cheezits]

I'd be all for the bat people being trolls and this is feasible to adjust, but not very meaty.

Someone pointed out the root theme and thorn theme, plus their quills and fur, matches up with Quillboar.

Now, why they would do "Quillboar Elves" I'm not sure.

[Gurahk]

Also, with the usual influential parties on Twitter crying about the lack of Horde, are we expecting devs to change it up? Because otherwise, they (not naming names) are going to shit up the community in a tantrum, which WoW really does not need right now.

They are right, lack of Horde is inexcusable especially after being sidelined expansion after expansion with a bunch of characters and races not getting even something as a vendor NPC. We're all gonna follow after Anduin, Alleria, Magni e.t.c. and if we're lucky, we get to spend a single quest with Thrall whilst he attempts to "find himself in the Horde" (he has done this for 4 expansions in a row).