The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Lahis]

This is always the funniest and dumbest thing people can bring up. the horde is literally colonialism and always has been.

They tried to colonize Azeroth in WC1/2

Tried to colonize Ashenvale in WC3.

Do colonize Duratar in wow with explicate quest about how they are killing and chasing the quillboars off there land for the horde to claim.

Let the blood elfs join in TBC who lead all the troll Colonizing.

Try to colonize mop with it being the express purpose of them being there.

The iron horde then shows they don’t need the legion to be colonizers.

And then try to colonize the rest of Kalimdor in the war of thorns before expanding to the rest of the world again.

When it comes to colonialism the horde are the bad guys and always have been.

The Horde doesn't colonize, they conquer.

Sure they'll take the land, but they'll also make sure there aren't any pesky natives left to govern over.

[Nymrohd]

Is it wrong to enjoy the political aspects of fantasy? Or is this a case of people getting extra defensive when others point out the delusions in their established ideology?

If you are simply inventing it so you can project whatever you want however your bias flies . . .yes, it is wrong.

[Ersula]

you’ve never quested through Durotar have you?

Only you would find the one instance where they call "thunder bluff" durotar because we were clearly talking about the Orgrimmar. The conflict of the Quillboar & Tauren predates the Horde on azeroth by thousands of years.

If you are simply inventing it so you can project whatever you want however your bias flies . . .yes, it is wrong.

When I say politics I mean the logistics of nations rationalizing their movements based on religion, resources & culture within a fictional setting. When you say politics you are talking about some moral commentary on the real world. We are not the same.

[Super Dickmann]

Is it wrong to enjoy the political aspects of fantasy? Or is this a case of people getting extra defensive when others point out the delusions in their established ideology?

Oh, of course not, but as said, these positions are zero-sum and so engagement is just for sport, no one's convincing each other. A position where the game attempts to discuss colonialism from a modern-day Western sensibility when its entire loop and premise is based around racial conflict will invariably either fall flat on its face or gut said foundation of the franchise and is thus undesirable.

[Alanar]

It makes sense for Zul's wacky expedition to have weathered armor, but yeah, it was touched up to make Zandalar look more "grand" to the average customer.

While I have a lot of problems with how BFA did Zandalar, establishing them as a "fancy kingdom" on par with Silvermoon and Suramar (they are the third "magic empire" Horde has under its belt imo, almost a subfaction) was well done and if it means they have to look more garish than Mists, i'll take it.

Mop version simply looked way more detailed in everything. Something that just wasnt there in bfa. It feels like a completely differnt artstyle almost. You can see it very clearly at their boats. Look at the ToT version boats. They look mean, aggressive, detailed, lots of props. Bfa version.. looks alnost like it was made from plastic, to much polished features. Etc. I see your point, but I am not throwing it at zuls wacky expedition, why it looked differnt. Its just a differnt style as a whole. Its also the zandalari trolls themselves and their armor. Something we dont see anywere else besides tot.

Ye, I personally even with mop in mind still love Zandalar. The Zandalari trolls always intriuged me, because of stories and Ilse of thunder enhanced it. Could it looked better, ofc, but no point in complaining anymore. We knew this for a while, but its nice to look back at it now because of remix. My opinion on this matter is still the same as it was in bfa. But the ToT zandalari were peak design and art style for them imo. I am just happy they kept the upright idle and proud walk. Shame they changed the running animation to look so dumb.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Only you would find the one instance where they call "thunder bluff" durotar because we were clearly talking about the Orgrimmar. The conflict of the Quillboar & Tauren predates the Horde by thousands of years.

The quest text literally says Durotar and I linked it you goomba.

Gar'Thok The orc standing in razor hill giving our quest in Durotar where he mentions removing them from Durotar isn’t talking about thunder bluff.

https://www.wowhead.com/classic/quest=837/encroachment
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/npc=3139/garthok

[Nymrohd]

When I say politics I mean the logistics of nations rationalizing their movements based on religion, resources & culture within a fictional setting. When you say politics you are talking about some moral commentary on the real world. We are not the same.

Here is the thing. You are saying that the Alliance is a colonial culture. How so? Beyond the basic fact that they do not have a colonial structure, what part of their culture is colonial? Were is the Alliance periphery? Where is the core utilizing the periphery's resources? How is their religion a reason for them being considered colonial when they do not practice evangelism or send forth missions in any form? You may think you are doing political theory here but I very much just see bias.

[Ksgrip]

The Alliance to Pandarans in Pandaria. The Alliance to the Trolls historically, The Night elves trying to turn southern Kalimdor into a forest is equally messed up what the Forsaken do, considering ecologically, its not destroyed, its just better suited to the Forsaken specifically. That last thing I assume you're talking about is either warlocks or blood magic, which the Alliance has, not to mention enslaving souls against the natural order was invented by Odyn, a vrykul dogma that evolved into the church of holy light.

The alliance are European imperialist coded based on how they look and what they do. Given the norms of medieval fantasy & various civilizations trying to survive in this chaotic, magical world, the methodology isn't out of the ordinary for any of the major factions. The core difference between the two factions is that the Alliance are extra judgmental about it. They push their culture on everyone because they believe it's better while the Horde accepts different cultural perspectives. Basically, the Alliance is colonialism.Tell that to Nato. Personally I don't think the invasion of Ukraine by Russia was the result of Nato existing, but a lot of people insist that's the reason.

I am outright reporting you because of that crap you just spewed about Ukraine. This is not the place to bring real world suffering and killings.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The Horde doesn't colonize, they conquer.

Sure they'll take the land, but they'll also make sure there aren't any pesky natives left to govern over.

That’s true, the alliance should have taken a note from there book and then people wouldn’t have these silly complaints.

[loras]

This is rather dismissive and pointlessly contrarian for the sake of it.

Blizzard evidently thinks Shadowlands did enough damage to put it as a bullet point in their leaked investor presentation. So clearly its not irrelevant to them.

This.
A dumpster fire of that size is hard to miss, even if you try to dismiss story as being in irrelevant in an RPG. Which is a pretty hot take.

[Aucald]

This thread is for the discussion of future WoW content, not the previous faction conflict and/or which faction does or doesn't represent the idea of colonialism. Let's pivot away from this irrelevant and derailing argument and return to the actual topic of discussion in this thread.

[Cheezits]

Now that we have reached the stage where the twitteroth illuminati can and will force Blizz to change quest text, what do we think isn't going to make it to launch?

[Makabreska]

Now that we have reached the stage where the twitteroth illuminati can and will force Blizz to change quest text, what do we think isn't going to make it to launch?

Why did you feel to create this topic? Are you trying to get prematurely triggered?

[Cheezits]

Why did you feel to create this topic? Are you trying to get prematurely triggered?

Because there is no more future speculation content for the expansion launch to be revealed, so we may as well discuss what is likely to change.

[Joshuaj]

Did anyone else see this?




Turalyon is based.

Oh, by the way, if this was Pre-Lawsuit/Pre-Disney Blizzard, he would have called her the G word (aka "Greenskin").

WoW players play their own game challenge (impossible)

Her skin isn't green, dude.

[Nymrohd]

This.
A dumpster fire of that size is hard to miss, even if you try to dismiss story as being in irrelevant in an RPG. Which is a pretty hot take.

I think you can still tell faction stories without them being about the conflict between factions. Hopefully TWW does that with e.g the goblins instead of focusing on just characters.

- - - Updated - - -

Because there is no more future speculation content for the expansion launch to be revealed, so we may as well discuss what is likely to change.

We can still speculate on patch content. And on gameplay elements. Have we gotten any testing on higher delve tiers yet?

[Lady Atia]

Btw, has someone found a good solution for pandaria remix ensambles on alts?

Currently, if you buy one on a character and learn it, it vanishs from the vendor, but not for your alts, and it also doesn't tell you that you have the ensamble already on your alt. Not sure if you can learn them twice as I won't waste my bronze for trying that haha.

But yeah, it's a bit of a mess if you use your alts for grinding some more transmog :/.

[Vakir]

What did you mean by this? Warcraft at present is exactly a setting wherein the 90s US mindset was right and you did in fact turn every Tom, Ahmed and Sheng into differently dressed versions of yourself.

I think this tickles me the most. People insist that this is some modern "woke" pivot but it doesn't even reconcile with that. It's rooted in regressive bubble era bullshit where everyone is treated as identical and there was zero celebration of any cultural differences that the modern zeitgeist wants, whether they succeed with it or not.

Whether the faction conflict is desired or not, the fact that you can't competently differentiate groups and actually constantly depict cultural differences is a total writing failure. There is a version of this setup of NPCs and this exact scene that isn't as homogenous. It is a deliberate choice of incompetent writers at this point.

They sometimes manage some element of cultural variance in each expansion zone proper, but they funnel it into new additions/races only and ignore everything else that's already been established.

[Lady Atia]

I think you can still tell faction stories without them being about the conflict between factions. Hopefully TWW does that with e.g the goblins instead of focusing on just characters.

- - - Updated - - -



We can still speculate on patch content. And on gameplay elements. Have we gotten any testing on higher delve tiers yet?

Well, last time I tried to test a delve I got destroyed cause the scaling was off. Not sure how they play in the current build though.

[allegrian]

Seriously, do people not realize we're already post-faction? Shadowlands and Dragonflight are your post-faction stories. Hell, Shadowlands is what the GREATER THREAT crowd wants whether they realize it or not; Azeroth is basically a distraction from their desired story at this point.


The best part of the faction unity story is that they didn't write it. There's nothing to discuss about it because it didn't happen, you just have to infer your own plot that happened offscreen because they didn't feel like writing it. Defenders of the story always make the argument that the best solutions are the ones where Blizzard has to write as little as humanly possible, so it's not surprising that the story frequently feels like it has huge chunks missing. You're supposed to just assume about half the plot happened offscreen.

You could see the ending of dragonflight with the amirdrassil party as some kind of final faction unity, even Jaina looks happy there to finally see peace between factions.