The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dracullus]

Or you know, they can just drop the unique rewards into the trading post. If you just make everything available you will just devalue any rewards unique to the game - and this time it's FOMO for everyone, not tied to elite content so people have no excuse of not being able to get the stuff they want.

That said, I wouldn't want it to be another "one and done" thing because it sounds super fun, although I hope we get other expansions first before we get the MoP event again.

I don't want to devalue this. If these 30 mounts will be available only during these 2-3 months, it will be total waste. If it will be in every Remix (which I doubt will happen more often than 1 per expac, hence me thinking expacs for this won't repeat), it will be still valuable to play it.

[Lady Atia]

I don't want to devalue this. If these 30 mounts will be available only during these 2-3 months, it will be total waste. If it will be in every Remix (which I doubt will happen more often than 1 per expac, hence me thinking expacs for this won't repeat), it will be still valuable to play it.

Well they said they want this to be like arrows in a quiver, so they can use them everytime there is a content draught at the end of a season. Remember turbulent timeways? That one is in the same spot, we actually didn't get it at the end of season 3.

[Soeroah]

Again, two expansion locations wasted on a patch? Great, you just turned the Worldsoul Saga into BfA 2.0 "lets waste our setups again - edition".

They are literally creating expansions around updated QT and Northrend, but of course they would waste Avaloren or a whole cosmic realm on a side patch, lol.

Midnight I could see us going to a remnant of Ka'resh though, since they whole Dimensius setup is there.

Last time we spent an entire expansion in a cosmic realm the playerbase rioted. I don't think we're going to completely ignore the concept, but I also don't think we're going to be spending entire expansions in them anymore. A patch seems like the compromise.

As for Avaloren, I certainly hope it's an expansion setting, but the writing is on the wall for it being a patch in TWW or Midnight. These aren't the patches I want, they're the patches I'm predicting.

They're going to expand on Quel'thalas and make more zones for it from the launch of the expansion - I doubt the patch zones will add any extra zones to Quel'thalas beyond maybe an expanded Isle of Quel'danas, so going to another realm seems like the most likely option there. We already know it's going to be 'a fight between Light and Void', and we already know Azshara is 'beyond the umbral veil' looking for 'the true throne of power', so using the Sunwell to create a portal there seems like a safe bet.

As for Northrend, I'm more than half expecting they're going to revamp the majority of the continent for the launch of the expansion, which leaves little in the way of patch zones other than underground or in some new Titan spaceship or something. Part of me wonders if Ulduar is going to be turned into an 'outdoor' patch zone, but that could end up being a bit disappointing to a lot of players if it's just asset reuse. I'm not sure how big they're going with their ambitions yet, so I think "Northrend at launch, extra zones in patches" is safe, and if we're going to be ending the titan conspiracy it makes sense to fight them in their own realm so they can't come back.

[Ksgrip]

I dont see what I said is somehow bending the lore, but what ever.

Turalyon is simply a boring character in general and we have seen other paladins such as Tirion that had more to them and were more interesting in terms of backround as well. The whole fighting for thousends years in space fighting demons, is just that.. what ever, who cares. Because of that It feels like we know everything we need to know from him already.

The only thing that I would like to see is how the dynamic between Turalyon and Alleria will work out and curious if there will be a clash. To me it sounds more interesting if they showcase both sides of the light and not just evil vs good (light vs void)

We have seen two cases now were the light does things its own way. Xe ra forcing Illidan, without hes permission and the light with characters like Yrel, dreanor and then we also have scarlet crusaders who use it for bad things.

I would be interested in exploring that a bit more.

I don’t think he is boring at all, in fact the biggest proof he isn’t is that he is constantly at the centre of speculation of the saga and people have to make totally wild headcanons regarding his character that ultimately class with what we know.

Regardless there is sure to be conflict bread from the clash between light and void but I really don’t see it being a literal 1 vs 1 between Alleria and Turalyon because at the end they are still a strong family.

And of course I don’t want a simple good vs evil but let’s not pretend the only middle ground is making him a fucking villain to kill. That would be terrible for the setting and the character. You can have nuanced conflicts and if anything the most nuanced one is precisely him not being a cartoon zealot but a king forced to make seemingly good decisions that turn bad and has his internal struggle with how to proceed because his wife may end up in the opposite camp.

Pretending that he would chose the light over his duty to the alliance or even his family is simply not who he is as a character. It’s far more probable and satisfying that his would be an arc of failing to deal properly with the duty of leading the alliance and stepping down after previously being convinced that he had made the right calls at the time, allowing for Anduin to get back being king and letting him have a complex relationship with his family that ultimately helps him have that turning point. Perhaps even having to renounce to the light when it is clear it may conflict with what is most important to him.

This is nuanced and much better than muahaha for the light let’s kill everyone. Also it is so obvious to me the Arathians are going to fill that void of new light fanatics that turn things to shit after defeating the void invasion. Remember they also introduced the lawful good (probably to be anduins wife) from Avaloren.

[Nathanyel]

Not a terrible idea, although I think you'd be slowing queue times a bit, especially depending on the set's time/effort disparity. Like I imagine if people can faceroll wrath TW or deal with chancing Court of Stars/Vault of the Warden, you'd end up with extremely slow Legion TWing queues and slightly slower than normal Wrath ones.

Well, after ~5min it could offer to also consider other queues, like it does for Chromie Time.

What's dreadful about Court of Stars, the spy room? At the risk of going off-topic, I feel like this could be improved nowadays, with the NPCs showing their attire as private auras, so you can target them and check their buffs whether they fit the clues, instead of walking up close to them.
Or disable that mechanic for LFG (TW or not) and just have the spy flee to the area where we fight them when they spot us.

[Lady Atia]

Well, after ~5min it could offer to also consider other queues, like it does for Chromie Time.

What's dreadful about Court of Stars, the spy room? At the risk of going off-topic, I feel like this could be improved nowadays, with the NPCs showing their attire as private auras, so you can target them and check their buffs whether they fit the clues, instead of walking up close to them.
Or disable that mechanic for LFG (TW or not) and just have the spy flee to the area where we fight them when they spot us.

Ehm no? The spy minigame was the best part about that dungeon, and I'm glad they broke the shitty WA that autosolved it.

[Jaggler]

In Midnight, yes. But what happens after we defeat the Void? I'll tell you - the same thing that happened with AU Draenor. Without enemies like the Legion or the Void, the Light will become stronger and more tyrannical. This is natural for all cosmic forces.

I think the Light will be an ally at first, and once the immediate Void threat is gone, they will want to take over, because we are apparently not fit and able to deal with the Void. They might also see this as the perfect opportunity to claim the World Soul which is what the summons the Titans for TLT

[Ersula]

This is nuanced and much better than muahaha for the light let’s kill everyone. Also it is so obvious to me the Arathians are going to fill that void of new light fanatics that turn things to shit after defeating the void invasion. Remember they also introduced the lawful good (probably to be anduins wife) from Avaloren.

I think after what we see in Legion, it'd be much easier to introduce the Naaru as villains. The Naaru are not aligned homogenously, as we see there were Naaru trying to kill Illidan in TBC, while at the same time we're told Xe'ra had prophesized Illidan would be their messiah all along.

Then in the Mag'har acquisition questline, two small details are given in the worldbuilding; The first being that the Naaru see nature-worship as a path to corruption, but also that the Mag'har were being accused of somehow destroying the ecosystem of the AU Draenor. Those two ideas seem a little contradictory in how they relate to what's going on in that questline: So this leads me to believe the Naaru themselves harmed Draenor's ecosystem because the planet itself represents an unnecessary vulnerability to corruption. As cosmic warriors against the void, nature is an obstacle & ideally the Naaru's lightbound would all live on spaceships like the Lightforged. I think a lot of people think the light cosmic force would prioritize the Alliance but they clearly wouldn't appreciate the void elves or night elves.

So I see two routes to a Tyranny of the Light storyline:
1.) Turalyon sees himself as Azeroth's savior & he becomes a war provocateur to retake the sunwell as well as world-domination.
2.) The Naaru show up & disown Turalyon for his relationship with Alleria. Allowing him & other worshipers to represent the good of the Light against the Naaru's tyranny.

[Nathanyel]

Ehm no? The spy minigame was the best part about that dungeon, and I'm glad they broke the shitty WA that autosolved it.

Not advocating for removing it, just mentioning that as a last resort to get players to want to run it, while above I propose a solution that improves the gameplay without making it significantly easier.
Wouldn't like it either, but the playerbase can be lazy like that, see how Oculus LFG was hated for the very simple dragon mechanic.

[Ksgrip]

I see two as the far more probable and better setup alternative

[Auxis]

My point is that it didn't last too long. Why does everyone here ignore that when talking about Turalyon's supposed "zealotry". If he was the person half of the people here say he is he would've either killed Illidan then and there or be killed by him. Anything except actually walking around.

I think Xe'ra had some kinda of sway over Turalyon, or at least blessed him in some form. During the cinematic where Illidan kills Xe'ra, Turalyon's eyes are a lemon-yellow from the moment she was revived, until after she was disintegrated when his eyes visibly shifted from the lemon-yellow to a more honey-yellow colour. I thought it might have been literally her light illuminating his eyes, but there is no change in illumination on his model during the moment when his eyes changed.

Around the 2:40 mark:

[Cheezits]

I think it will be something like this.

TWW- Core is saved from being corrupted by Xal and is safeguarded somehow, but Xal "wins" in another way (likely possessing or corrupting Alleria forcibly), which causes her to attack Silvermoon and/or summon a void force to Azeroth

Midnight- the Void is MOSTLY fought off and cleansed from North EK, but SOMEONE wins in a major way (either Dimensius or, more likely IMO, Azshara) that leads us to retreat and have to reach out to the keepers

TLT- Odyn arrives at Ulduar, starts a Keeper civil war, and begins the process of summoning the Titans to wipe out Azeroth as he sees the mortals have failed in Midnight. We have to knock sense into him/kill him and deal with Iridikron is who is lurking around. Unsure on the exact ending but I'm guessing true and ultimate freedom from the titans

Avaloren could be interwoven into any of this, but I think it's more likely for it and the Light to be a main focus, and an antagonistic force, in the saga following TWSS. Especially given how it is to the side of Kalimdor and we are due for some Kalimdor focus in the next saga.

[Samin]

Partly out of contrarianess, partly because I like the subversion, I would love if they retconned "Her heart is a crater and we have filled it" to actually refer to Beledar

[Nymrohd]

I think Xe'ra had some kinda of sway over Turalyon, or at least blessed him in some form. During the cinematic where Illidan kills Xe'ra, Turalyon's eyes are a lemon-yellow from the moment she was revived, until after she was disintegrated when his eyes visibly shifted from the lemon-yellow to a more honey-yellow colour. I thought it might have been literally her light illuminating his eyes, but there is no change in illumination on his model during the moment when his eyes changed.

Around the 2:40 mark:

Or it is just resonance. Everyone infused with the Light would resonate to a prime Naaru and be empowered simply by their presence. Makes sense to me.

[BaumanKing]

I think Xe'ra had some kinda of sway over Turalyon

I hate to admit it, but it worked both ways between them. In audiodrama Turalyon was able to convince Xe'ra not to kill his wife by showing her through the Light his deep feelings and love for Alleria. Since then Turalyon has never even once condemned Alleria for using the Void. He constantly supports her and believes in her. So it now seems to me that if he becomes a villain it will only be because of Alleria. Even in Shadows Rising, he only started committing war crimes because Alleria insisted. Hell, even before that, on Draenor, he agreed to butcher the dragon eggs only because again Alleria insisted.

[Ksgrip]

I hate to admit it, but it worked both ways between them. In audiodrama Turalyon was able to convince Xe'ra not to kill his wife by showing her through the Light his deep feelings and love for Alleria. Since then Turalyon has never even once condemned Alleria for using the Void. He constantly supports her and believes in her. So it now seems to me that if he becomes a villain it will only be because of Alleria. Even in Shadows Rising, he only started committing war crimes because Alleria insisted. Hell, even before that, on Draenor, he agreed to butcher the dragon eggs only because again Alleria insisted.

I think the same. Turalyon will only go bad if Alleria does as well

[Santandame]

Last time we spent an entire expansion in a cosmic realm the playerbase rioted. I don't think we're going to completely ignore the concept, but I also don't think we're going to be spending entire expansions in them anymore. A patch seems like the compromise.

As for Avaloren, I certainly hope it's an expansion setting, but the writing is on the wall for it being a patch in TWW or Midnight. These aren't the patches I want, they're the patches I'm predicting.

They're going to expand on Quel'thalas and make more zones for it from the launch of the expansion - I doubt the patch zones will add any extra zones to Quel'thalas beyond maybe an expanded Isle of Quel'danas, so going to another realm seems like the most likely option there. We already know it's going to be 'a fight between Light and Void', and we already know Azshara is 'beyond the umbral veil' looking for 'the true throne of power', so using the Sunwell to create a portal there seems like a safe bet.

As for Northrend, I'm more than half expecting they're going to revamp the majority of the continent for the launch of the expansion, which leaves little in the way of patch zones other than underground or in some new Titan spaceship or something. Part of me wonders if Ulduar is going to be turned into an 'outdoor' patch zone, but that could end up being a bit disappointing to a lot of players if it's just asset reuse. I'm not sure how big they're going with their ambitions yet, so I think "Northrend at launch, extra zones in patches" is safe, and if we're going to be ending the titan conspiracy it makes sense to fight them in their own realm so they can't come back.

But why are you predicting Avaloren for patch content for TWW, and even Midnight? It doesn’t seem like an immediate point of interest for either.

TWW is clearly the “underground” expansion and its seemingly going to stay that way. Immediate areas being foreshadowed in TWW are the Rootlands, Undermine and possibly the World Soul itself (though I believe we’ll be seeing that in The Last Titan).

We’re not just going to swan off to the other side of the planet when Xal’ataths aim is corrupting the world soul and possibly reaching Eluhn’anir (sp?) below the surface of Azeroth.

It’s not really fitting for Midnight either.

Avaloren is clearly being setup for an expansion or even multiple following the WSS. It’s being seeded throughout the lore now so we don’t get people complaining that we get a new landmass out of nowhere with no previous lore. Similar to how Northrend was built up throughout WC3, Classic and TBC.

If we’re following the Dragonflight formula, then the .1 raid patches seem to be more of a side/B plot storyline where the mega dungeon seems to be more of a bigger lore event. If Undermine is any indication, then it’s apparent we’re continuing to head that way.

My predictions for WSS patches are the following:

TWW

11.0 - Nerubians
11.1 - Undermine
11.1.5 - Caverns of Time showing The Scouring / Xal being consumed by the Old Gods. (Mega dungeon)
11.2 - The Rootlands / Eluhn’anir

Midnight

12.0 - Sunwell
12.1 - Scourge or Troll or Naga
12.1.5 - Scarlet Monastery (Mega dungeon) Showcasing more of Avaloren’s forces forming an alliance with the Scarlets.
12.2 - K’aresh

The Last Titan

13.0 - Ulduar
13.1 - Drawing a blank here, I’m not sure we’ll know until we see how Northrend has changed. Could be Vrykul related but I see Odyn being dealt with in the first raid. Possibly some more Avaloren seeding.
13.1.5 - Iridikron’s Lair (Mega dungeon)
13.2 - Heart of Azeroth/World Soul (Uldaz?)

[Sondrelk]

TWW

11.0 - Nerubians
11.1 - Undermine
11.1.5 - Caverns of Time showing The Scouring / Xal being consumed by the Old Gods. (Mega dungeon)
11.2 - The Rootlands / Eluhn’anir

Midnight

12.0 - Sunwell
12.1 - Scourge or Troll or Naga
12.1.5 - Scarlet Monastery (Mega dungeon) Showcasing more of Avaloren’s forces forming an alliance with the Scarlets.
12.2 - K’aresh

The Last Titan

13.0 - Ulduar
13.1 - Drawing a blank here, I’m not sure we’ll know until we see how Northrend has changed. Could be Vrykul related but I see Odyn being dealt with in the first raid. Possibly some more Avaloren seeding.
13.1.5 - Iridikron’s Lair (Mega dungeon)
13.2 - Heart of Azeroth/World Soul (Uldaz?)

My personal guess would be:

11.0: Nerubians
11.1: Rootlands
11.1.5: Undermine Megadungeon
11.2: Silithus underground (from across the sea in Hallowfall)

12.0: Sunwell or Silvermoon
12.1: Stratholme
12.1.5 Scarlet Monastery Megadungeon
12.2: K'aresh

13.0: Harrowsdeep
13.1: Possibly Icecrown or Vrykul themed. Though Gundrak would be great seeing as we didn't get it back in Wrath
13.1.5: One of the options mentioned above as a megadungeon
13.2: Ulduar leading into the Heart of Azeroth.

[Alanar]

I don’t think he is boring at all, in fact the biggest proof he isn’t is that he is constantly at the centre of speculation of the saga and people have to make totally wild headcanons regarding his character that ultimately class with what we know.

Regardless there is sure to be conflict bread from the clash between light and void but I really don’t see it being a literal 1 vs 1 between Alleria and Turalyon because at the end they are still a strong family.

And of course I don’t want a simple good vs evil but let’s not pretend the only middle ground is making him a fucking villain to kill. That would be terrible for the setting and the character. You can have nuanced conflicts and if anything the most nuanced one is precisely him not being a cartoon zealot but a king forced to make seemingly good decisions that turn bad and has his internal struggle with how to proceed because his wife may end up in the opposite camp.

Pretending that he would chose the light over his duty to the alliance or even his family is simply not who he is as a character. It’s far more probable and satisfying that his would be an arc of failing to deal properly with the duty of leading the alliance and stepping down after previously being convinced that he had made the right calls at the time, allowing for Anduin to get back being king and letting him have a complex relationship with his family that ultimately helps him have that turning point. Perhaps even having to renounce to the light when it is clear it may conflict with what is most important to him.

This is nuanced and much better than muahaha for the light let’s kill everyone. Also it is so obvious to me the Arathians are going to fill that void of new light fanatics that turn things to shit after defeating the void invasion. Remember they also introduced the lawful good (probably to be anduins wife) from Avaloren.

You like him, I get it. That doesnt mean that he is interesting perse for everyone. Like I said there really isnt much to him. There is tons of speculation, but that doesnt change or mean much right now. I dont see much speculation about him specifically personally perse, more like a few mentions. The attention is mostly towards alleria and Xal. He has yet to appear in anything other then just legion stuff or filling up a seat in stormwind.

I have yet to see their strong bond honestly, that could be explored sure, but even alleria says she is diststance herself, so there is barely any contact it seems. Also, meh.. its not about a 1v1.. its about the forces that dont match with eachother. That is what I am talking about. Her distancing herself drom her family has a reason to it after all. She says this in the latest cinematic.

We only know so much about him to be fair, I cant really say that isnt something hes character can or wont do. We dont know. Also no one is saying muhaha killing everyone for the light. Him being goodietwoshoes is boring on itself and we have enough light wielders who fill that spot. Hes position and hes relationship with alleria thus void vs light is largely unexplored so far. But tbh I rather see more happening then just light is good. Which we know cant be called good in that sense. Its neutral and can be used for bad things. Him teaming up with Yrel could make for an interesting turn of events. Knowing alleria went more and more to the void, eating the heart and all, same could be done with Turalyon. She could also have not do all of that and stay with her family. which she didnt. That was a selfish act mostly.

Hes very bland, so I dont know why people find him interesting at all. Its mostly just; BuT HeS FrOm warCRaft 2!!! Og ChArater!! Like I said, I dont care either way, but I am simply not interested in just the goodie light boy, which we have seen multiple off already. Right now it just feels we know everything we need to know from him. He needs to prove himself to be anything else, but a paladin who fought demons for years. Its just a lame story so far imo.

You are free to dissagree, but not everyone is as interested in Turalyon as you for example.

[milkmustache]

My personal guess would be:

11.0: Nerubians
11.1: Rootlands
11.1.5: Undermine Megadungeon
11.2: Silithus underground (from across the sea in Hallowfall)

I agree that Rootlands won't be the final patch, but I think Undermine is guaranteed to be a full patch rather than a megadungeon simply due to the datamined icon's name being "goblinraid".