The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

I don’t think a Gnome presence is needed. 11.1 is likely to be the Horde focused patch where launch seems to be Alliance favoured. Keep Undermine focused on the Goblins with support from Thrall as they get little else. It should be a really fun C-plot story to break up the more serious storylines of the expansion.

Gnomes will have a presence in The Last Titan for sure. There’s the Borean Tundra, Storm Peaks and Ulduar all of which should have a fair bit of Gnome content as well as the predicted technology based class.

I assume all the keepers will have to take a stance so we should be seeing some gnome and Mimiron interaction. Sad how he has interacted more with Brann than any gnome

[Worldshaper]

She doesn't exactly strike me as a "vassal of life" though.

Maybe Orwenya is the one?

If she's a "guardian of Elun'Ahir", she could probably be called a vassal of life. A servant of Elune, Eonar, and Freya.

She doesn't seem very treacherous, though. Maybe it's just in the eyes of the Old Gods.

Worth remembering that "eyes of green" could simply mean jealous, and doesn't have to describe a physical attribute.

[Jolly Roger]

She doesn't exactly strike me as a "vassal of life" though.

take every line from whispers as its own statement

shes gonna get taken over by xal

[Soeroah]

But why are you predicting Avaloren for patch content for TWW, and even Midnight? It doesn’t seem like an immediate point of interest for either.

I hadn't considered Avaloren for TWW until I heard there's an Arathi mage in Hallowfall trying to learn how to make a portal back home. It's possible that's setting up something in a future expansion, but it sounds typical of Blizzard to do something like that to set up a patch zone within the same expansion, which makes me worry Avaloren is going to be a patch since right now it's more likely to be in the new TWW frontier than either of Midnight or Northrend, them being on the other sides of the known planet from the almost-as-far-west-as-we-can-get Isle of Dorn.

[Chickat]

Revamp is happening in front of your eyes. I said multiple times that Cata styled revamp is pointless after 9.0 leveling changes and only viable way is old world returning as "new" expac continents.

Imo next Saga should have similar ratio - 1 expac in Avaloren and 2 somewhere in the old world. Not only it makes old world more relevant in lore, but also exploring new lands will be more exciting because it wont happen as often as now

Ion admitted in an interview that a cata style revamp might be necessary one day. You might be right, but I wont write off the possibility of one.

[allegrian]

Thrall looks super derpy in the short stories cover lol

[Chickat]

Eh, it depends on how they implement Midnight. It having to adhere to old zone sizes/boundaries might put a damper on it for me.

What would be cool is if they revamp continents in 2-3 xpac chunks and connect them when a continent is finished. Although that would take forever. With midnight done they will already have 1/3 of the continent. I could see them doing the other 2/3 in a large xpac. Especially if they keep the current zone ideas. Quel'thalas is being expanded because it was always smaller and less finished in game compared to other areas.


And tbh, they used a lot of existing OL skeleton and shaped it for Draenor with a team half the size of the current one. I could see them making a similarly sized Kalimdor with modern graphics using existing zone boundaries but cleaning them up and making the mountains look more natural. Turn 15 zones or whatever there are into 6 or 7. They totally have the numbers to do that now, and they will get even more practice with Northrend and even Midnight to a much lesser extent.

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Yeah, I agree with this. If we did not get the revamp for the 20th anniversary we are not getting it at all. At least not in a Cataclysm way. Which is fine, really. With the size of current zones, they can easily revamp all Kalimdor and all the Eastern Kingdoms in 4 expansions, maybe in 3 if we count patch zones, by grouping them together.

I wonder what zones Midnight will have and how they will implement them in the map and in the world itself, as they will be so much bigger than the rest of the continent, that it might be a weird contrast going from the old part of the continent to the new one. Think that a current expansion zone could easily have The Eversong Woods, The Ghostlands, and the Eastern Plaguelands together. Hell, Midnight could easily revamp the north part of the Eastern Kingdoms just in 12.0, while adding K'aresh or wherever we are going next in the patches. I doubt that they will do that, though, but at the same time, what zones are we getting, then? If K'aresh is coming, IMO it will clearly be the final zone of the expansion. It seems rather difficult to make just one zone from The Eversong Woods, one zone from The Ghostlands, and a new zone from the Amani part of the map? And we will be still missing one zone.

Midnight revamping Lordaeron as patch content would be really cool.

My guess is that we will have 1 brand new zone, 1 massively expanded zone and 2 existing revamped zones in Midnight.

Eversong Woods, Ghostlands, Zul'aman, and some new zone not seen before to flesh it out, or Sunwell could be its own zone and expanded in size. It would have to look different though. We need 4 unique looking zones.

1.Magical yellow Forrest zone.
2.Spooky Forrest zone.
3. Troll zone like Zuldrak but expanded.
4. Mountainous zone for variety perhaps? A desert would add variety but I cant see one fitting there.

Im fairly confident in 1-3 but 4 is up in the air.

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I did not forget about the Isle of Quel'Danas, which is minuscule. My guess is that it will be a part of The Eversong Woods zone. Maybe they could make it work as the 12.1 patch zone, adding several Void themed landmasses around, I guess, because the isle by itself is really small.

I also thought about the possibility of having Silvermoon as a zone by itself, similar to Suramar. But again, if Midnight has only the zones that you mentioned, there is not much variety there, right? Especially within the zones themselves.

Guess that they might add an underwater zone? Azshara has to show up for Midnight.



Hope never dies

They could split off a part of Western Eversong and massively expand the beach. 1/3 the zone underwater. 1/3 beach, and 1/3 mountains and trees leading down to the beaches. The EverReef.

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I'm just saying, you guys are gonna be disappointed a year and a half from now, when we're watching a feature trailer and Quel'thalas is a new zone only slightly bigger than its old area attached onto EK, with the rest of Lordaeron untouched save for maybe, maybe if you're really lucky, a fixed Stratholme since the coastal region of a slightly larger Quel'thalas will run into the "Northern Lordaeron" section that currently backs the city.

Azshara and a large Naga zone rising off the coast surrounding Quel'danas is more likely than Lordaeron somehow secretly being a thing that they just refused to mention at all, especially when they were so clear about downplaying the idea of a "revamp" at Blizzcon.

I think you are right, but Lordaeron is still a good candidate for a large patch zone. Or part of it. Maybe just the Eastwield as its Lordaeron but never been shown in game.



But being unrealistic, Stratholme for the alliance and Silvermoon for the Horde would be cool.

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I am dying on this hill. Quel'thalas = Isle of Dorn.

The rest of the expansion will probably be off-world. There will be a giant Void rift that their forces are pouring out of, and after you manage to secure Quel'thalas as part of the first zone/dungeon, the next zone will be you going through that rift to the Void's staging ground, probably on the remnants of K'aresh, and fighting to destabilize them there.

Like Isle of Dorn, Quel'thalas once secure will have our city, Silvermoon, and once we 'dive' to the K'aresh side, just like going into the underground in TWW, you'll have secondary factions and regions. Replace the Arathi and friendly nerubians with Ethereals, etc.

We know from interviews that they are viewing the updates to the old world in story relevant places as piecemeal and a "coat of paint"



It's clear from TWW that this new expansion style doesn't mean they're cutting corners in terms of zone development and what not, which means that most of Midnight is going to be new, fresh and exciting zones. They are going to want most of the zones you deal with to be completely fresh places to explore, not the equivalent of Arathi Highlands' updates.

That trailer is going to roll, you're gonna get "updated zone: Quel'thalas" and then the next shot is gonna be the camera zooming through a big void portal and it's gonna be "new zone: <hard to pronounce Ethereal name>" and be purple deserts and Ethereal cities.

Maybe, I could buy that, but I think Quel'thalas will be at least 2 zones with 2 zones on Ka'resh. Eversong and Ghostlands. Ghostlands being half Zul'aman.

[Khaza-R]

Thrall looks super derpy in the short stories cover lol

The artwork has a retro fantasy vibe to it. I dig it.

[Chickat]

Yet again, if we take such quotes literally, we will be getting expanded versions of The Eversong Woods and of The Ghostlands, and maybe of the Isle of Quel'Danas? Stiill missing one zone. One zone and a half IMO as the Isle of Quel'Danas by itself seems difficult to pull.

Anyway, pointless to discuss about this as we are not even in 11.0. I just find very interesting what kind of approach they will take, as such approach it is probably going to be used forward when they revamp more old zones.



This is an interesting approach. I could buy it. But it is a little bit risky. When they announced Midnight, they created some expectations. Players clearly have in mind a full revamp of at the very least the Eversong Woods and the Isle of Quel'Danas. And while I agree that we will visit K'aresh in Midnight, if it is there from the beginning, what are you leaving for the patch zones? I see K'aresh more as an Argus than anything else.

I think this could be fun.

Launch zones: Eversong, Ghostlands, Zul'aman, Naga Reef zone. Launch Raid: Defense of the Sunwell.

Patch 12.1-Eastwield. Void leader is using the remaining scourge to try and assult through Eastwield into Quel'thalas. New zone Eastwield, New raid Stratholme. In my version the city has 3 entrances. 2 in Plaguelands, and 1 back entrance into what used be Lordaeron zone of Eastwield.

Patch 12.2- Follow X villain into Karesh. New zone Karesh. New Raid Krestal the Void Citadel. Defeat X major villain and Dimensius for the final battle.

12.2.5- Iridikron executes his plan and a signal is sent to the Seat of the Pantheon. The Titans are coming.

[Merryck]

I think this could be fun.

Launch zones: Eversong, Ghostlands, Zul'aman, Naga Reef zone. Launch Raid: Defense of the Sunwell.

Patch 12.1-Eastwield. Void leader is using the remaining scourge to try and assult through Eastwield into Quel'thalas. New zone Eastwield, New raid Stratholme. In my version the city has 3 entrances. 2 in Plaguelands, and 1 back entrance into what used be Lordaeron zone of Eastwield.

Patch 12.2- Follow X villain into Karesh. New zone Karesh. New Raid Krestal the Void Citadel. Defeat X major villain and Dimensius for the final battle.

12.2.5- Iridikron executes his plan and a signal is sent to the Seat of the Pantheon. The Titans are coming.

12.2 New Neutral Allied Race: Ethereals

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Also, why does no one mention Draenei in the context of Midnight ... They have to be in the Light vs Void expansion. It CANNOT all be about elves.

[The-Shan]

Now Alleria short story is interesting, since Turalyon is just able to walk around Silvermoon without anyone shadowing him despite being the regent of Stormwind, it seems its a city that welcomes members of the Alliance during times of peace, despite being Horde territory.

[Teriz]

I don’t think Undermine is likely to be scrapped as Gazlowe is still receiving a fair bit of promotion.

I gotta say, the level of cope involving Gazlowe and Undermine's potential involvement in the next expansion is hilarious. People just need to accept that Blizzard devs don't hate goblins as much as some posters here do.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Thrall looks super derpy in the short stories cover lol

Hate the tumblrface of the characters.

[Jastall]

Hate the tumblrface of the characters.

I'm probably going to regret this, but what the heck is a "tumblrface"?

[Xilurm]

I am not sure I follow what you are telling me. That the whole point is that the whispers will make them fight? Split?

If that happens it's not going to be because "Turalyon is too set up in his ways." But because Alleria has gone batshit insane. Imagine hearing those whispers all day long. It's not about "understanding her" at this point. The void wants her to either kill, abandon, or bring everyone else to its side, there's no middle ground. She either has to get rid of it or dominate in a way that it doesn't affect her negatively.

[Schwert]

People seriously underestimate how much Scourge there will be in Midnight.

Is it because of recency bias? PTSD from Shadowlands? Or something else?

But are people not aware that the entire southern kingdom is firmly held by the Scourge? They even have a huge fortress in the region called Deatholme. Then there is also the Death Scar, a massive scar bisecting the entire kingdom and infested with Undead.

I don't know if people are somehow traumatized (lol) by Shadowlands to forget about the Scourge, but it's clear that the Scourge will be a B-plot of the expansion. Just because the Lich King is destroyed doesn't mean they'll remain mindless forever and it actually makes so much sense to involve Drathir in Midnight.

1) The Void Elves found Telogrus Rift because they were studying Drathir's research of the Void. He was a necromancer with great forbidden knowledge of the Void.

2) The original traitor who allowed the Scourge to bypass the Ban'dinoriel and lay waste to Quel'Thalas.

3) He is a Lich in all but name, having been resurrected multiple times.

Expect to see Drathir and the Scourge in Midnight as B-plot.

Literally a dream come true.
Dude was so cool in the manga.

[Dancaris]

Now Alleria short story is interesting, since Turalyon is just able to walk around Silvermoon without anyone shadowing him despite being the regent of Stormwind, it seems its a city that welcomes members of the Alliance during times of peace, despite being Horde territory.

Turalyon on work trip there, to discuss something with Liandrin.
But Arathor presence is odd one. He never was citizen of Silvermoon, he was raised by Vereesa, seems in Dalaran. He have 0 reasons even to be here, much like live in Silvermoon. Or he is now full neutral Knight of Silver Hand and hold 0 bonds with Alliance. I dunno, that is strange.

[Eldryth]

In fact, my hope is actually that the dreadlords infiltrate Azeroth during Midnight and that Kael'thas and Vashj are sent to pursue them, and that they remain a secondary antagonist during Midnight and The Last Titan while Denathrius waits for his opportunity to make his move.

I don't know about the rest of this, but as much as I'm against characters coming back from the Shadowlands without an extremely good reason, Kael'thas is the one person I feel that should- not just could- return in Midnight. It just fits too well with his character arc from the last time we saw him.

For all of Shadowlands's faults, one thing I did like from it was the attempt to reconcile BC Kael with pre-WoW Kael and redeem him. And at the end of it, it was spelled out that most of his issues came from him being unable to forgive himself for not being there to save Quel'thalas when Arthas attacked. Even though the Venthyr said that it wasn't one of his sins, knowing that Quel'thalas is about to be invaded again... him coming back to play a pivotal role in saving it is just too perfect of a payoff for all that.

I don't really know how they could justify his return, or if it should be a temporary return, an actual resurrection (yeah, I know it'd be a bit silly after he was already killed twice in BC, but I guess it could fit the character so closely tied to Phoenixes), or even end in his true death, but I really think he should be there for Quel'thalas this time. Maybe he could even ask Bolvar to raise him as a Death Knight, that's actually easy to justify and they could make him unique by giving him a Frost Phoenix instead of a Frostwyrm.

I don't know about Vashj though, the only real reason I can see for it would be to set up an Illidari reunion in the likely event that Illidan returns with the Titans in TLT, and I'm not sure it's worth bringing a character back from the afterlife for that. She didn't really have any lingering plot threads or regrets like Kael did.

[Ksgrip]

If that happens it's not going to be because "Turalyon is too set up in his ways." But because Alleria has gone batshit insane. Imagine hearing those whispers all day long. It's not about "understanding her" at this point. The void wants her to either kill, abandon, or bring everyone else to its side, there's no middle ground. She either has to get rid of it or dominate in a way that it doesn't affect her negatively.

Absolutely true, she is I a dark path. She will probably overcome it but not without falling deep first.

I also relent in my previous discussion with you. I no longer know what they want to do with the characters because they are not afraid of retconning previous lore to change things up.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Turalyon on work trip there, to discuss something with Liandrin.
But Arathor presence is odd one. He never was citizen of Silvermoon, he was raised by Vereesa, seems in Dalaran. He have 0 reasons even to be here, much like live in Silvermoon. Or he is now full neutral Knight of Silver Hand and hold 0 bonds with Alliance. I dunno, that is strange.

In the sylvanas novel Vereesa was still in silvermoon until pretty close to the fall no? Mabye it’s covered in one of the pre wow novels that she moved away earlier but if not Arathor Would have lived there until like 10 or so Mabye it’s a childhood home sort of thing.