The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Eurhetemec]

Cataclysm absolutely demolished guilds but that had nothing to do with its content and everything to do with the guild leveling system.

What do you mean by content? Because if you mean it in the broader sense, I disagree, the guild leveling system had a tiny impact on guild survival compared to the sheer difficulty ramp of Heroic raiding (and even Normal raiding to some extent). For example, with the guild I was playing with, throughout all of WotLK, we'd been able to have two 10s or to raid at the larger size (I forget what, was it 25?), and been successful the whole way, with a lot of pretty mediocre players, but ones who turned up on time for raids, properly prepared, and who were cool people to play with - nice, funny, good-spirited, not sweatlords, etc.

Cataclysm utterly ruined that. The sheer difficulty jump, which was exacerbated by the fact that the gear you could get from dungeons was so shit meant that suddenly playing with mediocre players was pretty much ensuring a loss - you couldn't semi-carry people in the way you could in literally every WotLK raid. We could no longer have two functional 10s groups for example, because if you split the "good" players between both, then neither had enough to succeed reliably. Whereas if you put all the good players in one 10, that would succeed, but the other one might not even get past first boss or two on Heroic (and probably couldn't even finish Normal).

Then there were other factors in the content that caused big problems - the rep grind seemed more necessary than any previous expansion because of the way it was set up, and so many people, me included, felt like they "had" to do all 25 possible Dailies every day (which wasn't even all the dailies, there were more like 35+ of them IIRC), and that took like two hours every day, of complete boredom, which really damaged morale. And ironically, when that was over, after a couple of months, because all the reps were maxed, that was even worse, because there was LITERALLY nothing to do but raidlog, and you were raidlogging for raids that were profoundly unfun for the reasons discussed earlier and tonally fucked too (like some of those bosses are just awful and stupid lore and style wise - there are some really cool ones, but too many awful ones).

So to me the content was a big, big part of what broke guilds. Guild leveling definitely didn't help, but that wasn't a major issue for either of these guilds.

- - - Updated - - -

It isn't that deep. Your mistake was going into World of Warcraft, a game known for being campy, ridiculous and cartoony and expecting it to be the pinnacle of storytelling.

This is just drivel, sorry, that's not a reasonable position, and it's just a cheap lie about what I thought.

I went into Cataclysm to be on-par, writing-wise, with say, WotLK, the expansion that preceded it. It wasn't. Instead it worse than the worst writing in WotLK. WoW has never been the "pinnacle of storytelling", but most of the time before and after Cataclysm, it was at least okay at the smaller-scale stuff, and sometimes the bigger stories too. Cataclysm was utterly terrible at both. Insultingly bad in a way WoW had only flirted with before, but was now doing basically full-time.

[Xilurm]

Nah you're completely wrong. I called it out for this at the time, and I was right to. It's nothing to do with "looking too deep into it", it's to do with entire zones full of cretinous trash quests and absolute idiocy - Hyjal and Uldum particularly. It's blindingly obviously unless you're completely 100% incapable of thinking about the media you're consuming critically. This was long before "social media influence" was a thing, so you're just flatly wrong.

As I said earlier in this post, when you put a literal frat boy in charge of WoW, a man who never grew up, and who Blizzard was literally covering up the sex crimes of, what do you think will happen?

First of all he wasn't in charge of WoW. Can you actually explain what's wrong with the zones? Because it seems like you're just complaining about the meme quests. And that somehow "reeks" of frat boy culture? But honestly it feels like you're just using those words without actually knowing what they mean?

For example, what you're complaining right now still exists within Blizzard. Go check the youtube shorts that the WoW channel has been putting out lately, it's full of memes.

This is why I said your post feels like it was influenced by social media. There's no substance. Nobody even know what you're trying to say.

[Santandame]

This is just drivel, sorry, that's not a reasonable position, and it's just a cheap lie about what I thought.

I went into Cataclysm to be on-par, writing-wise, with say, WotLK, the expansion that preceded it. It wasn't. Instead it worse than the worst writing in WotLK. WoW has never been the "pinnacle of storytelling", but most of the time before and after Cataclysm, it was at least okay at the smaller-scale stuff, and sometimes the bigger stories too. Cataclysm was utterly terrible at both.

Fair enough. Have a lovely day.

- - - Updated - - -

This is why I said your post feels like it was influenced by social media. There's no substance. Nobody even know what you're trying to say.

They're using their own personal bias as to why they are right and everyone else is wrong. All the while claiming that other posters are attempting to bully them, yet the entire time they've been offensive or rude with anyone opposed to them in literally every message exchange whilst discussing this subject. Smile, nod and move on. Its the only way you'll get through.

[Makorus]

This is just drivel, sorry, that's not a reasonable position, and it's just a cheap lie about what I thought.

I went into Cataclysm to be on-par, writing-wise, with say, WotLK, the expansion that preceded it. It wasn't. Instead it worse than the worst writing in WotLK. WoW has never been the "pinnacle of storytelling", but most of the time before and after Cataclysm, it was at least okay at the smaller-scale stuff, and sometimes the bigger stories too. Cataclysm was utterly terrible at both. Insultingly bad in a way WoW had only flirted with before, but was now doing basically full-time.

I am not usually one to use that criticism, and it may sound hypocritical, but MoP and especially Cataclysm have an incredibly weird writing and tone to the point where some things are actually embarassing, and it is hard for me to describe what it is.

Yeah, WoW was always campy and cartoony, but I feel like Cataclysm and MoP had the issue where they couldn't decide what they wanted to be so there was a severe case of tonal whiplash. "Do we wanna tell an interesting story about war or do we wanna be pop-culture reference?".

You go from comitting very realistically portrayed war crimes to NPCs spouting "Shoop da Woop" or having zones built entirely around movie references, and it just feels bad.

WoW pop culture references used to be subtle enough most of the time, and Cata and MoP is when they went overboard to a point where it feels like this is when Blizzard started to embrace the MCU humour.

Remix showed me that MoP probably has some of the highest highs in writing, but definitely some of the lowest lows as well.

[Grazrug]

So this is the first allied race without at least an ambassador as a new leader for both factions seperatley? Weird. Seems they cut resources to prepare for Last Titan.

[Makabreska]

So this is the first allied race without at least an ambassador as a new leader for both factions seperatley? Weird. Seems they cut resources to prepare for Last Titan.

Yeeee, they saved so much resources right now. Last Titan is saved!

[Makorus]

So this is the first allied race without at least an ambassador as a new leader for both factions seperatley? Weird. Seems they cut resources to prepare for Last Titan.

Sooooo true!

They didn't include a blue and a red npc, that must have given them so much time for TLT!

Also, there literally is no other Allied Race that has a Horde and an Alliance rep.

[Lady Atia]

Cataclysm absolutely demolished guilds but that had nothing to do with its content and everything to do with the guild leveling system.

Na, the guild system was cool as hell, especially the mass port. Cataclysm's problem was cut (but promised) content aswell as 12+ months of Dragonsoul which was the shittiest raid we ever got full of re-used models with the lamest heroic endboss to date.

In another timeline we got the Abysal Maw raid (although that also just looked like reused shit sadly, but maybe in some universe there was one on par with Firelands) aswell as the War of the Ancient Tier.

[Cheezits]

zi like how suddenly people are clamoring for more incredible characters like Ji, Aysa, Cindrethresh and Alliance Dragon. I prefer them to not make these characters at all rather than make characters they will never use.

More interestingly, a Horde Earthen NPC now talks about revamping Orgrimmar, including building a large harbor.

[Lady Atia]

zi like how suddenly people are clamoring for more incredible characters like Ji, Aysa, Cindrethresh and Alliance Dragon. I prefer them to not make these characters at all rather than make characters they will never use.

More interestingly, a Horde Earthen NPC now talks about revamping Orgrimmar, including building a large harbor.

Not sure if I want Earthen aesthetics to be used for the revamped Org, ngl. The cata looks was spot on, imo.

[Makorus]

Na, the guild system was cool as hell, especially the mass port. Cataclysm's problem was cut (but promised) content aswell as 12+ months of Dragonsoul which was the shittiest raid we ever got full of re-used models with the lamest heroic endboss to date.

In another timeline we got the Abysal Maw raid (although that also just looked like reused shit sadly, but maybe in some universe there was one on par with Firelands) aswell as the War of the Ancient Tier.

A guild system that heavily punishes not recruiting literal randos is fucking terrible, I am sorry.

[Auxis]

I think I just used up my luck for the year. Praying it was just for the month and will reset in June.

Got Heavenly Onyx Cloudserpent last week, just got both Tusks of Mannoroth and my 2nd Warglaive of Azzinoth today. Meaning I'm prepared (ha!!) for TW BT when it comes next... which is in August............

So pretty much I can just freely use my Bronze for mounts/any transmog I want, and can freely level characters to target world-drop weapon skins to my hearts content!!

[Cheezits]

Today on WoW Alpha Lore Controversies, it looks as though Thrall has lost his communication with the elements again, or they are pretending that quest in Shadowlands didn't happen/was a temporary thing.

https://x.com/skoll_shorties/status/...641489137?s=46

[Santandame]

zi like how suddenly people are clamoring for more incredible characters like Ji, Aysa, Cindrethresh and Alliance Dragon. I prefer them to not make these characters at all rather than make characters they will never use.

More interestingly, a Horde Earthen NPC now talks about revamping Orgrimmar, including building a large harbor.

I really hope the potential Orgrimmar harbour aesthetic isn’t based on Earthen architecture. By all means, have an Earthen presence in the city but I hope their input in terms of if the harbour is providing the manpower to help build it. It would feel like such a jarring contrast of themes.

[Cheezits]

I really hope the potential Orgrimmar harbour aesthetic isn’t based on Earthen architecture. By all means, have an Earthen presence in the city but I hope their input in terms of if the harbour is providing the manpower to help build it. It would feel like such a jarring contrast of themes.

The way it is presented is the Earthen making suggestions. I doubt we will ever see KA aesthetics again outside of TWW.



Maghar helping industrialize Kalimdor is something I've wanted for a long time.

[Auxis]

Today on WoW Alpha Lore Controversies, it looks as though Thrall has lost his communication with the elements again, or they are pretending that quest in Shadowlands didn't happen/was a temporary thing.

https://x.com/skoll_shorties/status/...641489137?s=46

Maybe the Elements in the realms of Death act differently? IDK. We've seen him use the elements in 10.2, yeah?

Another possibility; this dialogue comes after some event in TWW that we haven't seen, that causes Thrall to lose access to the elements? Just spitballing here tbh..

[Nymrohd]

I really hope the potential Orgrimmar harbour aesthetic isn’t based on Earthen architecture. By all means, have an Earthen presence in the city but I hope their input in terms of if the harbour is providing the manpower to help build it. It would feel like such a jarring contrast of themes.

I personally hope that Orgrimmar opens up the cliff wall on its western side and expands there, building a harbor guarded inside the cliffs and expanding in that area as well as integrating parts of the Underhold. (with clear preparations to withstand a siege like a massive chain that can be drawn to close the harbor off if needed)

[Murlocos]

After two weeks of complaining about how awful the leveling scaling in Remix is, making you incredibly weak as you approach 70, they decided to apply ilvl scaling at 70 now as well that buffs the bosses as you gear up. This is just getting morbid now.

[Nymrohd]

After two weeks of complaining about how awful the leveling scaling in Remix is, making you incredibly weak as you approach 70, they decided to apply ilvl scaling at 70 now as well that buffs the bosses as you gear up. This is just getting morbid now.

Yeah, the scaling buffs plus the ward nerf very much means that their view is that Heroic raiding needs to be a challenge. Nevermind that many people cleared Heroic raiding with no challenge at all using Ward plus strong gear because they a) managed to use one of the many early Bronze farms like the frogs, b) invested all their Bronze in upgrading betting on the massive changes to Bronze income that happened later on.
So the people who likely would be chasing the challenge never got to experience it and the more casual players in the event who likely never cared that much to be challenged are going to be stonewalled. Most raid groups already required ilvl 430 (which means your gear would need to be near fully upgraded taking into account that accessories do not level) to pick you up for Heroics, even Heroic MSV.

The big lesson of Remix for the community absolutely is Exploit Early!

[Chickat]

Questing through Cataclysm again and oh boy. The frat bro culture stench was really all over the game back then

A complete polar opposite to how queer and "woke" Dragonflight feels

I am "woke" but I vastly prefer the tone of WoW until Legion than after. DF should have been cool but its all about love and family etc. I want cool moments. A heartfelt moment has its place, but that was 75% of DF.