The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Makorus]

We are not going to ally ourselves with him after what he's been doing regardless if he's antagonistic or not. Just because the Titans might end up as antagonists it doesn't mean that Iridikron won't either.



But the plot has been working towards making him an overarching villain.

How so, exactly?

Because we fought him once? Everything he did so far, right now, is villainous because right now, we are still technically, practically allied with the Titans. The worst thing he has done is "unleash" Fyrakk, I guess, which is a fair point, but once again, that was to buy himself time not to actively fight against us.

[Nymrohd]

I just want Iridikron to kill a Titan.

[Xilurm]

How so, exactly?

Because we fought him once? Everything he did so far, right now, is villainous because right now, we are still technically, practically allied with the Titans. The worst thing he has done is "unleash" Fyrakk, I guess, which is a fair point, but once again, that was to buy himself time not to actively fight against us.

And now he has given a really powerful weapon to Xal'atath and because of that she will unleash the void on Azeroth, killing thousands.

[Makorus]

And now he has given a really powerful weapon to Xal'atath and because of that she will unleash the void on Azeroth, killing thousands.

Right. Damn, if only there was another dragon who did things that cost hundreds and thousands of lives for a larger pay-off in the end yet is generally liked by the player base and actively allied with the player

[Xilurm]

Right. Damn, if only there was another dragon who did things that cost hundreds and thousands of lives for a larger pay-off in the end yet is generally liked by the player base and actively allied with the player

That doesn't have to do anything with whether a character is a villain or not.

Also who do you mean?

[Scyth]

We are not going to ally ourselves with him after what he's been doing regardless if he's antagonistic or not. Just because the Titans might end up as antagonists it doesn't mean that Iridikron won't either.

Tbf we did ally with Illidan and he's done worse. Wouldn't be surprised if Iridikron plays a similar role to Illidan in legion. Not saying it would happen just that it wouldn't be surprising if they went down that route.

[Ersula]

That doesn't have to do anything with whether a character is a villain or not.

Also who do you mean?

The Bronze dragon who conspired to free Garrosh & create the AU Draenor, worked for Wrathion. Wrathion's weird epilogue villain monolog from the end of the legendary cloak quest makes it clear it was all his idea to create a global army that could defeat the legion. Accidently causing the Legion's invasion. Which also kicked off the Jailer's plan.

It seems Wrathion was removed from Legion during the Beta because way too late they realized this made him indirectly responsible for the creation of AU Gul'dan, causing the Legion Invasion in the first place & getting Varian & Vol'jin killed, and at no point were they prepared to address with that in Legion's story. So they just put Wrathion on Ice until N'zoth, where they kind of acknowledge this aspect of the storyline. (Anduin Punching him in the face, but there were many reasons for that. They deal with this whole storyline more directly in Dragonflight.)

IE, besides the genocide of black dragons, Wrathion has 3 wars worth of blood on his hands.

How so, exactly?

Because we fought him once? Everything he did so far, right now, is villainous because right now, we are still technically, practically allied with the Titans. The worst thing he has done is "unleash" Fyrakk, I guess, which is a fair point, but once again, that was to buy himself time not to actively fight against us.

The main difference between Wrathion & Iridikron is.....the writers didn't intend Wrathion to be a villain. The whole Legion Beta thing points to the cause & effect of the AU Draenor being something the devs did not account for until it was too late. But Iridikron is bringing war & possible planetary distruction to azeroth intentionally, while wrathion did it unintentionally, which matters. I guess intentions only matter if you're a guy, Sylvanasists.

[Makorus]

That doesn't have to do anything with whether a character is a villain or not.

Also who do you mean?

Wrathion. Illidan is another good one that was brought up in the thread, actually.

The Bronze dragon who conspired to free Garrosh & create the AU Draenor, worked for Wrathion. Wrathion's weird epilogue villain monolog from the end of the legendary cloak quest makes it clear it was all his idea to create a global army that could defeat the legion. Accidently causing the Legion's invasion. Which also kicked off the Jailer's plan.

It seems Wrathion was removed from Legion during the Beta because way too late they realized this made him indirectly responsible for the creation of AU Gul'dan, causing the Legion Invasion in the first place & getting Varian & Vol'jin killed, and at no point were they prepared to address with that in Legion's story. So they just put Wrathion on Ice until N'zoth, where they kind of acknowledge this aspect of the storyline. (Anduin Punching him in the face, but there were many reasons for that. They deal with this whole storyline more directly in Dragonflight.)

IE, besides the genocide of black dragons, Wrathion has 3 wars worth of blood on his hands.
The main difference between Wrathion & Iridikron is.....the writers didn't intend Wrathion to be a villain. The whole Legion Beta thing points to the cause & effect of the AU Draenor being something the devs did not account for until it was too late. But Iridikron is bringing war & possible planetary distruction to azeroth intentionally, while wrathion did it unintentionally, which matters. I guess intentions only matter if you're a guy, Sylvanasists.

The writers didn't intend for Wrathion to be a villain? He literally has a villain speech at the end of MoP. Even if you ignore his action being directly responsible for the Legion invading Azeroth, him releasing Garrosh and sending him to Draenor was just as fucked up.

But Iridikron is bringing war & possible planetary distruction to azeroth intentionally, while wrathion did it unintentionally, which matters.

I mean, he literally doesn't want that to happen though. The whole plan hinges on the fact that the Titans wouldn't want the World Soul to be corrupted. He thinks he can scrap with the Titans, so I think he will be able to deal with the Void.

[Ersula]

The writers didn't intend for Wrathion to be a villain? He literally has a villain speech at the end of MoP. Even if you ignore his action being directly responsible for the Legion invading Azeroth, him releasing Garrosh and sending him to Draenor was just as fucked up.

They meant for him to be a co-conspirator to the Iron Horde, (portraying him as a morally grey anti-hero) they did not intend for him to cause the Legion's invasion of Azeroth, the one thing he was trying to prevent (portraying him as a reckless idiot.)

I'm starting to think writing isn't the wow developers' forte.

[Makorus]

They meant for him to be a co-conspirator to the Iron Horde, (portraying him as a morally grey anti-hero) they did not intend for him to cause the Legion's invasion of Azeroth, the one thing he was trying to prevent (portraying him as a reckless idiot.)

I'm starting to think writing isn't the wow developers' forte.

In what world is releasing Garrosh being a "morally grey anti-hero"?

The alternative was just... not doing that?

[Ersula]

In what world is releasing Garrosh being a "morally grey anti-hero"?

The alternative was just... not doing that?

The goal was to create a unified army to defeat the Legion, after the Alliance & Horde failed to conquer & absorb the other in MoP like he intended. That's a good intention. Just like Illidan in Legion.

You can't call Illidan, Sylvanas & Wrathion villains, because if they didn't do what they did we would be much worse off. We did ultimately defeat Sargeras & Zovaal, which was only possible because of them.

[Xilurm]

The goal was to create a unified army to defeat the Legion, after the Alliance & Horde failed to conquer & absorb the other in MoP like he intended. That's a good intention. Just like Illidan in Legion.

You can't call Illidan, Sylvanas & Wrathion villains, because if they didn't do what they did we would be much worse off. We did ultimately defeat Sargeras & Zovaal, which was only possible because of them.

Obviously Arthas was not a villain because if he didn't wage war against the living we wouldn't have gone to Northrend to kill him, which in turn wouldn't leave the Helm of Domination in the hands of Bolvar who was weaker and got defeated by Sylvanas who in turn broke the helm and opened the way to the Shadowlands.

[Ersula]

Obviously Arthas was not a villain because if he didn't wage war against the living we wouldn't have gone to Northrend to kill him, which in turn wouldn't leave the Helm of Domination in the hands of Bolvar who was weaker and got defeated by Sylvanas who in turn broke the helm and opened the way to the Shadowlands.

Except that's not accurate because that wasn't Arthas' intentions & Arthas was no factor in the plot at all because it didn't really matter who the Lich King was.

Sylvanas, Illidan & Wrathion's intentions were good. Unlike Iridirkon or Arthas.

[Xilurm]

Except that's not accurate because that wasn't Arthas' intentions & Arthas was no factor in the plot at all because it didn't really matter who the Lich King was.

Sylvanas, Illidan & Wrathion's intentions were good. Unlike Iridirkon or Arthas.

Illidan maybe, Sylvanas was selfish as fuck and only cared about herself. She didn't wanna save everyone, just herself.

[Lady Atia]

Illidan maybe, Sylvanas was selfish as fuck and only cared about herself. She didn't wanna save everyone, just herself.

That's not true, please read the Sylvanas novel. The game actually backs it up that the whole afterlife system was indeed fucked, just not the way the Jailer made it out to be. And we actually fixed it.

[Xilurm]

That's not true, please read the Sylvanas novel. The game actually backs it up that the whole afterlife system was indeed fucked, just not the way the Jailer made it out to be. And we actually fixed it.

It was fucked because all the souls were going to the Maw? Yes, and she contributed A LOT to that.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It was fucked because all the souls were going to the Maw? Yes, and she contributed A LOT to that.

Souls didn’t get a say in where they went and not enough family’s were together, that’s about it. The maw wasn’t involved yet.

[Raetary]

Wrathion. Illidan is another good one that was brought up in the thread, actually.

Both of these guys have had benevolent end goals, the protection and preservation of Azeroth, safeguarding it from the Legion and Void threats.
They are both just reckless and had terrible plans that blew up in their face.

Iridikron literally sold the world to the Void, consequences be damned, just in an effort to enact vengeance on the titans.

[Ersula]

It was fucked because all the souls were going to the Maw? Yes, and she contributed A LOT to that.

And Illidan killed scores of innocent people to convince the Legion to induct him. It's strange WoW has this extreme the ends justify the means mentality, but that's what happened.

Souls didn’t get a say in where they went and not enough family’s were together, that’s about it. The maw wasn’t involved yet.

It was, because even though everyone wasn't going to the maw yet, Zovaal showed her the maw when he made his pitch. He led her to believe every forsaken was going to the maw even though it was just because he already dominated her soul because she was killed by frostmorne. Part of Sylvanas was already in the maw because of Frostmorne, just like Uther's soulshard. It's why Uther was getting visions of the Maw.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It was, because even though everyone wasn't going to the maw yet, Zovaal showed her the maw when he made his pitch. He led her to believe every forsaken was going to the maw even though it was just because he already dominated her soul because she was killed by frostmorne.

Nan that was the old lore he doesn’t say all forsaken would go there in the novel jsut that the arbiter sent her there.