The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Super Dickmann]

Dreadlords work really well as hell spies, IMO. They just picked the wrong Devil for them to ultimately report to. Which can also be retconned.

I like the Dreadlord retcon and think it's a net improvement. Even the Bald Man connection doesn't really matter, in so far as they were ultimately tied to an actually popular villain in Denathrius and report to him, priming them for reuse later on.

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I hope chronicles 4 addresses and retcons some of the bfa and SL problems.

I predict they'll cut out the loyalist bit, as it was only ever the product of how wretched the Horde plot direction and end state was, and retroactively make Sylvanas have some popular opposition rather than five guys, along with further off-loading everything they possibly can onto her so as to try (and fail) to dig themselves out of the hole that making the Horde as a whole support her in the BFA war put them in when it came to telling these Anduin circle-jerk sessions.

SL's problems are so basic I've no idea where they'd even start, except reiterating that nothing but the dreadlord retcon took place and limiting any prior NPC's connection to the Bald Man. The most interesting thing will be how they treat Zereth Mortis, as it'll make clear where they mena to take the franchise going forward.

[Alanar]

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I think your assessment just needs to stop while you're ahead. It's not about age ratings. Blizzard just isn't good at telling a story even compared to their contemporaries, let alone one of the finest philologists in history.

That blizzard has trouble putting out a good story, is nothing new. As I said multiple times now. Which has multiple reasons.

Again, you may think what ever you want, but your passive aggresive tone on you seems like I hit a nerve. You seem to take it way to personal. Regardless, my opinion didnt change So, I am let this fly and leave you to it.

[allegrian]

I like the Dreadlord retcon and think it's a net improvement. Even the Bald Man connection doesn't really matter, in so far as they were ultimately tied to an actually popular villain in Denathrius and report to him, priming them for reuse later on.

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I predict they'll cut out the loyalist bit, as it was only ever the product of how wretched the Horde plot direction and end state was, and retroactively make Sylvanas have some popular opposition rather than five guys, along with further off-loading everything they possibly can onto her so as to try (and fail) to dig themselves out of the hole that making the Horde as a whole support her in the BFA war put them in when it came to telling these Anduin circle-jerk sessions.

SL's problems are so basic I've no idea where they'd even start, except reiterating that nothing but the dreadlord retcon took place and limiting any prior NPC's connection to the Bald Man. The most interesting thing will be how they treat Zereth Mortis, as it'll make clear where they mena to take the franchise going forward.

They should try to retcon the zereth stuff as something the titans made, so shadowlands was kinda like a titan transformed death plane (like the emerald dream in a way). Repeating the whole classic titan theme of being created out of machines but applied to basically everything is so boring and creatively bankrupt.

Danuser is responsible for that world building and he left, so they should just take what's cool and drop the rest. I'm pretty sure that the arathi empire and most world building stuff from TWW was his idea as well, and we'll get full danuser-free stuff from midnight onwards.

[Lahis]

Has anyone seen this? It's from the Earthen intro:




Since Dragons have nothing to do with Khaz Algar, doesn't this confirm that the chains around Azeroth in the TLT logo are of Titan making?

If the Titans are keeping the World-Soul imprisoned, why exactly is Xal'atath evil for wanting to break her free? If she wasn't trying to kill My waifu Alleria, I'd be on board for Team Xal'atath.

The prison in the vault is obviously Titan tech. I don't think anyone has contested that.

[Alanar]

The prison in the vault is obviously Titan tech. I don't think anyone has contested that.

We know this for a while. We even have a toy..

[Cheezits]

They should try to retcon the zereth stuff as something the titans made, so shadowlands was kinda like a titan transformed death plane (like the emerald dream in a way). Repeating the whole classic titan theme of being created out of machines but applied to basically everything is so boring and creatively bankrupt.

I'm not even saying this in a troll way when I say that I think the longterm plan is for a reveal that the First Ones are the Titans, either through a timeloop or direct descendants/new bodies for old souls. Their similiarites are wayyyy too blatant. I know most people think that the idea was just the writers are shit and wanted Titans 2.0 but I think it is a deliberate choice that they do the EXACT same thing (order things and use robots to enforce their will)

[Varodoc]

The prison in the vault is obviously Titan tech. I don't think anyone has contested that.

This thread contested it some time ago. I think it was before 10 pages were wasted talking about the Janitor.

[Super Dickmann]

They should try to retcon the zereth stuff as something the titans made, so shadowlands was kinda like a titan transformed death plane (like the emerald dream in a way). Repeating the whole classic titan theme of being created out of machines but applied to basically everything is so boring and creatively bankrupt.

That'd be the easy take and also one I hope they don't do, even if it may save them a lot of headaches. What they were incompetently pawing at in ZM was actually interesting in so far as it was more a riff on a plane of concepts, fate etc. than the machinery of otherwise understandable people with familial relations as in the Titans. But it's also not something the game can handle all too well and SL's handling of it means I figure we're far unlikely to see much of it going forward.

[milkmustache]

The prison in the vault is obviously Titan tech. I don't think anyone has contested that.

There has been one user here that has been very insistent that it is dragon technology. It's not.

I'm not even saying this in a troll way when I say that I think the longterm plan is for a reveal that the First Ones are the Titans, either through a timeloop or direct descendants/new bodies for old souls. Their similiarites are wayyyy too blatant. I know most people think that the idea was just the writers are shit and wanted Titans 2.0 but I think it is a deliberate choice that they do the EXACT same thing (order things and use robots to enforce their will)

I don't think you're far off base at all. I think the recent lore for the Titans is setting the stage for them to either be fully compromised by other cosmos, or the other way around.

I mean, the Shadowland already feels like it could be a Titan realm similar to the Dream. I think there's easy rewrites there to smooth it all over.

[Varodoc]

If Chronicles IV reveals that the First Ones are the Titans, I would love to see the mental breakdown of a certain poster around these parts.

[Cheezits]

I mean, the Shadowland already feels like it could be a Titan realm similar to the Dream. I think there's easy rewrites there to smooth it all over.

Yeah, the way Oribos and the "four main realms" are set up is incredibly Dream-like (another pinched off pocket realm that is forcibly ordered by a robot) and feels like Titans got into the Shadowlands early on and enforced the "cycle", maybe with help from Elune and her fellow gods + Lightlords. Who are pretty clearly all conspiring together.

The True Timeline is definitely the singular one Light wants. I expect that reveal any day now.

Ironically, both SL, DF and the KA Earthen story are very similar- Azeroth (and her champions) busting up a forcibly Ordered society and offering it freedom. Though, as per the recent changes to the text for the Earthen Paladin mount, I think they are going with "Order isn't actually the worst thing ever lol" and its more the enforcement/brainwashing that is the issue.

[Xilurm]

I'm not even saying this in a troll way when I say that I think the longterm plan is for a reveal that the First Ones are the Titans, either through a timeloop or direct descendants/new bodies for old souls. Their similiarites are wayyyy too blatant. I know most people think that the idea was just the writers are shit and wanted Titans 2.0 but I think it is a deliberate choice that they do the EXACT same thing (order things and use robots to enforce their will)

Too many hopeful things in this thread makes me think they will just leave it as it is lol.

But yeah, I'd love it if Denathrius was the real mastermind, and if the Titans weren't replaced by the First Ones in terms of being above everything else when it comes to the cosmological chart.

[Varodoc]

By the way, I'm calling it now, the first expansion after the World Soul Saga will be Outland Revamp with Rebuilt, Multi-racial Shattrath City as main hub and Denathrius as the main villain, leading the Legion remnants with his coven of Nathrezim.

It's funny, but after 10 years of Azeroth-centric expansion, I'll enjoy a Cosmic expansion set in Outland.

[Super Dickmann]

If Chronicles IV reveals that the First Ones are the Titans, I would love to see the mental breakdown of a certain poster around these parts.

You know as well as I he'll pivot to gushing about how large and tumescent Dimensius's starry rod is.

[milkmustache]

Yeah, the way Oribos and the "four main realms" are set up is incredibly Dream-like (another pinched off pocket realm that is forcibly ordered by a robot) and feels like Titans got into the Shadowlands early on and enforced the "cycle", maybe with help from Elune and her fellow gods + Lightlords. Who are pretty clearly all conspiring together.

The True Timeline is definitely the singular one Light wants. I expect that reveal any day now.

Ironically, both SL and the KA Earthen story are very similar- Azeroth (and her champions) busting up a forcibly Ordered society and offering it freedom. Though, as per the recent changes to the text for the Earthen Paladin mount, I think they are going with "Order isn't actually the worst thing ever lol" and its more the enforcement/brainwashing that is the issue.

It really feels like the ending of the Saga is going to be something along the lines of Azeroth being unclaimed by the Titans or any other force, and instead stating that hte balance between them all is the only thing that ensures others existences, something something. So Order having bad aspects but not totally being bad is believable. Especially with the connection we see between Freya and Elune, it seems that the ones who are interdependent with other forces are being given a more sympathetic light in the writing.

Too many hopeful things in this thread makes me think they will just leave it as it is lol.

But yeah, I'd love it if Denathrius was the real mastermind, and if the Titans weren't replaced by the First Ones in terms of being above everything else when it comes to the cosmological chart.

I feel like this is the route to go once we finish the big cosmic war. Let them skirmish, let rogue breakouts be the threats. Denathrius has ambitions, so he hops from Shadowlands to Fel, or even moreso to the Twisting Nether and Void. He's a threat, we attack. Arathi in Avaloren utilize the Light in a zealous way, we need to fight that. Just examples, but so on and so on.

[Cheezits]

By the way, I'm calling it now, the first expansion after the World Soul Saga will be Outland Revamp with Rebuilt, Multi-racial Shattrath City as main hub and Denathrius as the main villain, leading the Legion remnants with his coven of Nathrezim.

It's funny, but after 10 years of Azeroth-centric expansion, I'll enjoy a Cosmic expansion set in Outland.

An Outlands expansion seems likely, but the Eredar making their capital there seems crazy to me. I know the heritage quest showed that the land isn't entirely dying but it would feel weird if they just went back and ditched Azeroth.

[Sondrelk]

[/IMG]
Classic Deathwing is heroic, Shadowflame is mythic.

Well that's good. I hoped it would turn out this way for sure. The Deathwing, Blue, and Void themed ones were definitely the ones I want the most, so good to see I can get those.

Still a shame so many great transmogs are hidden behind Elite though. Though I suppose I should be happy we at least still get the Mythic appearance after the season has ended.

[Varodoc]

An Outlands expansion seems likely, but the Eredar making their capital there seems crazy to me. I know the heritage quest showed that the land isn't entirely dying but it would feel weird if they just went back and ditched Azeroth.

Shattrath is now a multi-racial city. It used to be the capital of the Draenei civilization, but since TBC, it's become the capital of all the free races of Outland. You have Ogre, Arakkoa, Orcs, and Blood Elves in the city. It's grown beyond just the Draenei.

I do expect Shattrath to be rebuilt as a new multi-racial hub. Also, one of the only Wins of WOD was the Arakkoa world-building, so imagine a Revamped Shattrath with a fully-built Arakkoa district, wouldn't that be a nice hub?

I loved the feeling of Shattrath, a safe haven of refuge for all the free races of a shattered world, the TBC nostalgia remains strong.

[Sondrelk]

That'd be the easy take and also one I hope they don't do, even if it may save them a lot of headaches. What they were incompetently pawing at in ZM was actually interesting in so far as it was more a riff on a plane of concepts, fate etc. than the machinery of otherwise understandable people with familial relations as in the Titans. But it's also not something the game can handle all too well and SL's handling of it means I figure we're far unlikely to see much of it going forward.

I just wonder how they are going to design the future Zereths.
ZM was neat in Shadowlands since it was so jarring to have an idyllic "normal" zone. But is that going to be the norm for every one? Because I fear that will get old after a while having each Zereths be effectively the same proto-flora.

[Murlocos]

Chronicle 4 has so much ground to cover that it'd be a miracle if it were totally comprehensive regarding the myriad issues spawned from recent expansions. WoD is the easiest one to brush over seeing as everything interesting and good about it was already covered in Chronicle 2 only leaving the story where nothing relevant happens other than setting up Gul'dan to start Legion.

Depending on how much they have to rely on plot summaries to squeeze everything in, I agree that reading between the lines when it comes to stuff like how they treat the SL cosmology will likely be necessary. That also goes for how and if they'll address the actual state of the world, given that Legion up through the beginning of SL was blowing it up to hell and back and then left us in nice ambiguous states like wondering how much of the world was eaten by the Scourge outbreak in 10.0, how we went from tense armistice to characters casually hanging out in opposing faction capitals in a few years, etc.

It may be a nice early test of whether they have something to tell or if we're still doing decision paralysis because they aren't sure if they'll want to use a character or city or zone in a year or six months or a month down the line.