The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

The irony, it is palpable.

Oh I guess it is my filter blocking people with less than 20 posts

[Joshuaj]

The irony, it is palpable.

Never said I didn't feel similar though?

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Y'all definitely have a habit to be sure. Regardless, I'm kinda surprised that a lot of the Earthern stuff looks kinda Progenitor-y. It is possible Blizzard could have retconned the First Ones, but it's likely just a coincidence VIA architecture.

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An Outlands expansion seems likely, but the Eredar making their capital there seems crazy to me. I know the heritage quest showed that the land isn't entirely dying but it would feel weird if they just went back and ditched Azeroth.

I kinda wanna explore more areas of the Nether, like Xoroth, Rancora, etc. That would be cool to see.

[allegrian]

We have finally an answer to earthen allegiance to each faction. As I predicted, they are not pollitcally affiliated with neither, and you're just an adventurer individual who joins them to learn about them and bring back some knowledge to the earthen society.

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...76605825990968

It's a nice way to approach neutral races and they could do that with the elf unification in midnight so they can become their own faction in canon.

[Joshuaj]

That is really cool to see

[Cheezits]

It's a nice way to approach neutral races and they could do that with the elf unification in midnight so they can become their own faction in canon.

Yeah I really hope they do this with Thalassian Elves. They start off in a revamped area in QT and then they can join the Sin'dorei (Horde) or the Quel'dorei (Alliance), or RP as a neutral party.

Earthen DK is currently disabled and so still a mystery on their lore. I'm kind of hoping for a new post-SL DK intro now.

Maybe Pelagos sends you back at your own request? The Ebon Blade/Kyrians/Valkyr picks you up in the Veil because you refuse to move on?

[Raetary]

Dude returned just in time, there's a new Progenitor Spider NPC:
https://www.wowhead.com/beta/npc=220...genitor-spider

And with the Awakening Machine sharing aesthetic traits with Oribos/Zereth Mortis, guess more FOs content is coming sooner than later.

[Lahis]

Shattrath is now a multi-racial city. It used to be the capital of the Draenei civilization, but since TBC, it's become the capital of all the free races of Outland. You have Ogre, Arakkoa, Orcs, and Blood Elves in the city. It's grown beyond just the Draenei.

I do expect Shattrath to be rebuilt as a new multi-racial hub. Also, one of the only Wins of WOD was the Arakkoa world-building, so imagine a Revamped Shattrath with a fully-built Arakkoa district, wouldn't that be a nice hub?

I loved the feeling of Shattrath, a safe haven of refuge for all the free races of a shattered world, the TBC nostalgia remains strong.

The new Eredar capital is very strongly implied to be build on Azeroth, on either Azuremyst or Bloodmyst. They called Azeroth their home in the Heritage questline.

Sure, if Outland gets a revamp, Shattrath would get a facelift and update showing how it has developed since TBC, but it won't be the brand new Eredar city.

[Cheezits]

Dude returned just in time, there's a new Progenitor Spider NPC:
https://www.wowhead.com/beta/npc=220...genitor-spider

And with the Awakening Machine sharing aesthetic traits with Oribos/Zereth Mortis, guess more FOs content is coming sooner than later.

Considering its color, this is probably directly related to the ghost spider you can find in Ferim's cave that taunts you with some foreboding warning. It looked identical (and the mount it gives you has a similar warning description)

https://www.warcraftmounts.com/mount.php?mountid=1430

These tarachnids move with a purpose unknown to others, answering only to a higher calling. Whatever that may be, it appears to include routine assistance to mortals who need a ride. For now.

[Ersula]

We have finally an answer to earthen allegiance to each faction. As I predicted, they are not pollitcally affiliated with neither, and you're just an adventurer individual who joins them to learn about them and bring back some knowledge to the earthen society.

I'm fine with them wanting to learn about the factions this way, but the fact that joining one means you will inevitably be involved in violent confrontation with the other, at least by accessory, makes the "not politically affiliated" part seem crazy. In practice, you're either a spy or a sympathizer; you have to be one or the other.

[Vakir]

I think the worldsouls arent Titans.

If worldsouls are influenced more by order, they become titans.

If worldsouls are influenced equally by ALL the forces, they become "first ones" ot the seventh force

In fact, maybe each Titan is order + a little bit of another force. For example, Eonar is order + life

I actually am OK with this. It reconciles many things retroactively.

The only issue I have is that they explicitly set Zovaal and the other Eternals up as "Titan++" which creates this bizarre hierarchy disconnect where created enforcers are orders of magnitude more threatening than actual origins.

This is what happens when you keep inventing new action figures to hype as way cooler than your old ones ad infinitum, Blizzard.

Dude returned just in time, there's a new Progenitor Spider NPC:
https://www.wowhead.com/beta/npc=220...genitor-spider

And with the Awakening Machine sharing aesthetic traits with Oribos/Zereth Mortis, guess more FOs content is coming sooner than later.

Womp womp.

It'd probably work better for me if it wasn't a highly ordered group utilizing machine installations...contrasting with an already existing ordered group utilizing machine installations. Even their "planet of hats" is redundant.

[Cheezits]

I actually am OK with this. It reconciles many things retroactively.

The only issue I have is that they explicitly set Zovaal and the other Eternals up as "Titan++" which creates this bizarre hierarchy disconnect where created enforcers are orders of magnitude more threatening than actual origins.

This is what happens when you keep inventing new action figures to hype as way cooler than your old ones ad infinitum, Blizzard.

And this is why they are doing fewer interviews. Titan++ doesn't make sense when we (almost) kill one in a raid fairly simply, when we have yet to scratch a single Titan that wasn't a puppet/zombie without direct Titan interference backing us up.

Devs say stupid shit (Kul Tirans aren't big because Drust) that are fact checked by the game (yes they are), but because it's an official statement, it gets used as evidence even when said devs are gone.

[Lahis]

What makes you say that? I was looking forward to buying them after buying all the Chronicle books.

They are too afraid to add anything new, despite the whole premise of the series. It just describes the zones as they are ingame and handwaves some explaination why they haven't changed at all since Cata/TBC/WLK

[Super Dickmann]

We have finally an answer to earthen allegiance to each faction. As I predicted, they are not pollitcally affiliated with neither, and you're just an adventurer individual who joins them to learn about them and bring back some knowledge to the earthen society.

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...76605825990968

It's a nice way to approach neutral races and they could do that with the elf unification in midnight so they can become their own faction in canon.

Cop-out, much like the dracthyr bit, but what gets me about Earthen in general is that these cop-outs are wholly unnecessary. The gameplay merge is already here for most major points of content. There is no reason to artificially create reasons to slot aesthetically or culturally ill-fitting races into factions which are already barely functional hodgepodges. But to not do so at all and make it preference means you skimp out on means that after they've given up on racial differentiation they cut out cultural one as well, because it turns political allegiance into what colour the NPC prefers to wear. Pandaren were handled much better, even down to Ji very much not getting what he paid for when enlisting, Dracthyr at least had superficially different organisational wings of the same group, this is just nothing, despite the Unbound/Oath-aligned Earthen distinction being right there.

[Ersula]

I actually am OK with this. It reconciles many things retroactively.

The only issue I have is that they explicitly set Zovaal and the other Eternals up as "Titan++" which creates this bizarre hierarchy disconnect where created enforcers are orders of magnitude more threatening than actual origins.

This is what happens when you keep inventing new action figures to hype as way cooler than your old ones ad infinitum, Blizzard.

If they build eternal one's bodies in Zereth Mortis & implant world souls into them, as explicitly portrayed in the Sepulcher, the most logical assumption would be that they build Titan bodies in Zereth Ordus & implant world souls into them there.

No living being in this franchise has been restricted to using a single form of magic based on their alignment. Eonar being Order-aligned but using nature magic isn't any more unusual than the Winter Queen using nature magic, or a High Elf using Fire magic.

[Cheezits]

Cop-out, much like the dracthyr bit, but what gets me about Earthen in general is that these cop-outs are wholly unnecessary. The gameplay merge is already here for most major points of content. There is no reason to artificially create reasons to slot aesthetically or culturally ill-fitting races into factions which are already barely functional hodgepodges. But to not do so at all and make it preference means you skimp out on means that after they've given up on racial differentiation they cut out cultural one as well, because it turns political allegiance into what colour the NPC prefers to wear. Pandaren were handled much better, even down to Ji very much not getting what he paid for when enlisting, Dracthyr at least had superficially different organisational wings of the same group, this is just nothing, despite the Unbound/Oath-aligned Earthen distinction being right there.

At some point, it's just Video Game. The Earthen you selected on the Horde side of the character screen has to go into the Horde portal. What do you do- block off the other portal? Only make one portal? Or do you have Random Lady tell you to go into that portal?

I think the Obsidian Warders/Dark Talons are some of the worst and flimsiest faction justifications ever and it makes me yearn for the ridiculous stupid plot for why the Bilgewater exclusively joined the Horde. While the Huojin and Tushui are FINE, I would much rather have "come up with your own reason" and an NPC railroading you into a certain portal because Video Game over a joke of a psuedo-faction for a completely neutral race.

[Super Dickmann]

I actually am OK with this. It reconciles many things retroactively.

The only issue I have is that they explicitly set Zovaal and the other Eternals up as "Titan++" which creates this bizarre hierarchy disconnect where created enforcers are orders of magnitude more threatening than actual origins.

Ditto agreed on @KainneAbsolute's premise being good and better than both the SL and the original Chronicle version. When it comes to this bit though, it's not like this was ever reflected in the content. The Bald Man had to spend a whole expansion and multiple overlapping plot devices along with manually hammering the world soul in a place of power to do what N'zoth could do by passively existing in its vicinity and Sarg has stabbed a planet. So it's just an empty hype statement, best not consdiered any more than Outland being a Death Titan (Afrasiabi) or the 'the people we meet in the Shadowlands are gestalt beings of all their possible selves' (Danuser).

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At some point, it's just Video Game. The Earthen you selected on the Horde side of the character screen has to go into the Horde portal. What do you do- block off the other portal? .

No, this explanation works only if there's actual faction gameplay thing keeping you from doing content with your friends. But it doesn't, because you can do groups, guilds and all instanced content cross-faction. There's no gameplay impetus to force ill-fitting races to join a faction that doesn't make sense for it. The whole thing about the individual choice of every race waters each race down into a useless lump, because if anyone can be anything and the message of the last three fuckmothering expansions is 'Be Lawful Good, hug it out, be nice to everyone, all material, racial or political differences are just the result of bad vibes' and any group can adopt this message then everyone ends up the same. The result of this is the current Horde cast or that end of DF cinematic where all the blandos are so interchangeable they finish each other's sentences. Differentiation is good.

[Ersula]

It would have been better just to have the Oathsworn join the Alliance & the Unbound join the Horde. I don't understand why people are like "I'm glad they're not Pidgeon holing us into one of these Earthen factions" but yet they are Pidgeon holing your Earthen character being a new baby earthen instead of thousands of years old. People think that's better?

[Joshuaj]

I actually am OK with this. It reconciles many things retroactively.

The only issue I have is that they explicitly set Zovaal and the other Eternals up as "Titan++" which creates this bizarre hierarchy disconnect where created enforcers are orders of magnitude more threatening than actual origins.

This is what happens when you keep inventing new action figures to hype as way cooler than your old ones ad infinitum, Blizzard.



Womp womp.

It'd probably work better for me if it wasn't a highly ordered group utilizing machine installations...contrasting with an already existing ordered group utilizing machine installations. Even their "planet of hats" is redundant.

This is a misconception. Only Zovaal was stated to be "Titan++" level, and there's another version of the interview that's more accurate, which simply has Zovaal as a Titan level threat. The Eternal Ones at their prime are at the same level as the Titans at their prime. However, in SL, they are heavily weakened, which is why they're mostly fodder (except for the Primus somewhat, and Denathrius, though he's not a fighter and was seemingly lenient throughout most of the fight against him).

Why do you think the Titans in Antorus were so weak compared to Sargeras? Being weakened or drained by some external/internal effect can make anyone seem less powerful in comparison.

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If they build eternal one's bodies in Zereth Mortis & implant world souls into them, as explicitly portrayed in the Sepulcher, the most logical assumption would be that they build Titan bodies in Zereth Ordus & implant world souls into them there.

No living being in this franchise has been restricted to using a single form of magic based on their alignment. Eonar being Order-aligned but using nature magic isn't any more unusual than the Winter Queen using nature magic, or a High Elf using Fire magic.

We don't know if the things in Zereth Mortis are specifically "world souls" tho. They're just "Titan level" souls, which at best gives them a connection to world souls.

[Cheezits]

It would have been better just to have the Oathsworn join the Alliance & the Unbound join the Horde. I don't understand why people are like "I'm glad they're not Pidgeon holing us into one of these Earthen factions" but yet they are Pidgeon holing your Earthen character being a new baby earthen instead of thousands of years old. People think that's better?

Some people like character-lore restrictions and some people don't. The theme of the KA Earthen is, yet again, "Azeroth = Freedom" so their whole schtick is that the new ones are super free to do whatever, just like the Dracthyr (which was kind of foreshadowing for what happens with the Aspects, go figure). This will happen again with the Harronir (who have been revealed to have super strict rules and regulations against helping outsiders, which of course will be broken) and probably with the Ascended Nerubians if they become playable (they are created through void infusion, so again, lol freedom/choices/chaos, and also now Queenless). For whatever reason they are going full steam on the FREEDOM train and that is now Azeroth's main theme and all creatures she directly touches.

The Oathsworn and the Unbound seem like they were an early concept for Huojin/Tushui 2.0 (complete with colors to match at Blizzcon) but it looks like they ditched it. Nothing is stopping you from RPing your Earthen as an Old Earthen, just like nothing is stopping you from RPing your Darkspear as a Farraki at the barbershop. It's the option with the most Choice, it just isn't as cool a story (for some).

Game vs Story.

[Joshuaj]

Ditto agreed on @KainneAbsolute's premise being good and better than both the SL and the original Chronicle version. When it comes to this bit though, it's not like this was ever reflected in the content. The Bald Man had to spend a whole expansion and multiple overlapping plot devices along with manually hammering the world soul in a place of power to do what N'zoth could do by passively existing in its vicinity and Sarg has stabbed a planet. So it's just an empty hype statement, best not consdiered any more than Outland being a Death Titan (Afrasiabi) or the 'the people we meet in the Shadowlands are gestalt beings of all their possible selves' (Danuser).

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No, this explanation works only if there's actual faction gameplay thing keeping you from doing content with your friends. But it doesn't, because you can do groups, guilds and all instanced content cross-faction. There's no gameplay impetus to force ill-fitting races to join a faction that doesn't make sense for it. The whole thing about the individual choice of every race waters each race down into a useless lump, because if anyone can be anything and the message of the last three fuckmothering expansions is 'Be Lawful Good, hug it out, be nice to everyone, all material, racial or political differences are just the result of bad vibes' and any group can adopt this message then everyone ends up the same. The result of this is the current Horde cast or that end of DF cinematic where all the blandos are so interchangeable they finish each other's sentences. Differentiation is good.

What Zovaal did was something N'Zoth could NEVER do. I don't know why you would say that. There are definitely connections, but the process itself effected things on different levels. N'Zoth transcended dimensions and dream-like barriers to try and reach Azeroth's soul, and had he claimed her, all of "reality" would be turned into the Black Empire, which is probably just talking about the physical multiverse in this sense, but idk fully. What Zovaal tried to do to Azeroth was basically use her power to activate the Progenitor's machinery at the heart of Eternity, and conduit that power across the other Cosmic Hearts, essentially dominating and recreating the cosmology entire, which includes our physical reality.