The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[milkmustache]

God I hate Shadowlands lore. What a trainwreck.

A thought on some recent NPC appearances in the last alpha build: I'm still confused (although not opposed in any means) about Gorgonna and Geya'rah's involvements here, but I did a little thinking. Between Orwenya and the Harronir's visual similarity to Gorgrond and Botani structures along with the Genesaurs we've seen in the Ringing Depths (although have they been confirmed to be there, or were they just press still placeholders?), perhaps Geya'rah serves as a voice against the dangers of chaotic nature (along with Light zealotry obviously).

I'd like to hear others thoughts on this to divert away from the previous conversation. Not sure if spoiler tags are necessary.

[Cheezits]

God I hate Shadowlands lore. What a trainwreck.

A thought on some recent NPC appearances in the last alpha build: I'm still confused (although not opposed in any means) about Gorgonna and Geya'rah's involvements here, but I did a little thinking. Between Orwenya and the Harronir's visual similarity to Gorgrond and Botani structures along with the Genesaurs we've seen in the Ringing Depths (although have they been confirmed to be there, or were they just press still placeholders?), perhaps Geya'rah serves as a voice against the dangers of chaotic nature (along with Light zealotry obviously).

I'd like to hear others thoughts on this to divert away from the previous conversation. Not sure if spoiler tags are necessary.

I saw one thing on Twitter that said that there are some tensions between Geyarah and Turalyon for obvious reasons. So it may be partially to build up that.

[milkmustache]

I saw one thing on Twitter that said that there are some tensions between Geyarah and Turalyon for obvious reasons. So it may be partially to build up that.

That definitely makes sense. I think it's going to be beneficial to have a lot of characters wary of the Light.

I wonder if they're setting Gorgonna up to take a leadership role of the Orcs on Azeroth, as Thrall is kinda just a neutral character.

[Joshuaj]

SLs really not THAT complicated. It just didn't get the build up or clarification it needed.

Honestly? That would be cool, seeing Geya'rah serve as the foil to things that are uncontrolled, since she herself has seen what uncontrolled powers result in.

[KainneAbsolute]

Why would they want to make Azeroth a Zereth? And isn't the point of a Zereth that it's the origin point of something? Unless Azeroth serves as the Dark Beyonds starting point, making a Zereth is practically useless.

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Also, World Trees such as Elun'ahir are inherently bad to the Titans as they see Life's influence as "chaotic" in nature, which makes sense considering Life serves an opposing function to Order.

I'm sorry, it was posted to a previous post. Saying A-zereth would mean not the absence of zereth but the absence of the influence of the other 6 forces. The opposition of the trees can confirm this. Maybe they wanted Azeroth as pure being (maybe they think a pure being is order).

[Joshuaj]

I'm sorry, it was posted to a previous post. Saying A-zereth would mean not the absence of zereth but the absence of the influence of the other 6 forces. The opposition of the trees can confirm this. Maybe they wanted Azeroth as pure being (maybe they think a pure being is order).

...Hm...uhuh. I'm a lil confused, but maybe it'll happen? Idk. I don't think so, but I've been wrong before.

[huth]

The 5-man fight wasn't the end of the story. That's a key factor. The context for this is whether we'll altogether lose at the very end of Midnight. I don't see it, myself.

And neither is Midnight the end of the story. The heroes don't win in act 2.

[milkmustache]

And neither is Midnight the end of the story. The heroes don't win in act 2.

Not to say that we're bound to lose to the Void in Midnight, because I agree with you saying heroes winning in act 2 isn't how that works, but I think there's far more context to what TLT will be that may determine what our outcome vs the Void truly means. We could win, but it could set other things into motion, whatever the "vast conspiracy" is, which is ultimately a far larger loss.

[Khaza-R]

Azeroth = A Zereth has to be stupidest fan theory I've seen across in any franchise, ever.

Not to say that we're bound to lose to the Void in Midnight, because I agree with you saying heroes winning in act 2 isn't how that works, but I think there's far more context to what TLT will be that may determine what our outcome vs the Void truly means. We could win, but it could set other things into motion, whatever the "vast conspiracy" is, which is ultimately a far larger loss.

The way Metzen phrased Midnight at BlizzCon makes this somewhat hard to believe. He said we would "make our stand with the forces of Light and banish the Shadow forever". So unless there's some plot twist there where us siding with the Light is actually the wrong move, then I don't see the bad guys winning in Midnight.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

God I hate Shadowlands lore. What a trainwreck.

A thought on some recent NPC appearances in the last alpha build: I'm still confused (although not opposed in any means) about Gorgonna and Geya'rah's involvements here, but I did a little thinking. Between Orwenya and the Harronir's visual similarity to Gorgrond and Botani structures along with the Genesaurs we've seen in the Ringing Depths (although have they been confirmed to be there, or were they just press still placeholders?), perhaps Geya'rah serves as a voice against the dangers of chaotic nature (along with Light zealotry obviously).

I'd like to hear others thoughts on this to divert away from the previous conversation. Not sure if spoiler tags are necessary.

Is chaotic nature even a possible threat?

It was apparently only a thing on draenor because they had an insane amount of spirit which is the opposite of Azeroth and even then things were apparently fine once the spore mounds were taken care of.

[Houle]

That wasn't Steve Danuser in that interview... Published WoW fiction is always going to be more canon that a random dev's comments.

Idk what video you watched dude, but in the one i linked its Steve Danuser lol. Go watch it again.

And even if that werent enough (it is), i also linked an ingame quest which said the same thing he said: The LKs did their own thing.

Ingame events, especially ones that came out more recently and are thus more up to date, will always be "more canon" than older additional short stories.

It really gets me that people don't take this into account, when the LKs being puppets of the Bald Man was such an atrocious plot point that even in an expansion full of unforced error after error and massive retcons, they made sure to have the Bald Man, the descriptions of items and quests all explicitly scream that no, Arthas and Ner'zhul did all this stuff on their own and even Bolvar just turned more evil from the hat and wasn't a puppet.

I mean, Ersula seemingly disagrees lel

But yeah, its quite funny that not even the SL writers dared to go THAT far.

[Joshuaj]

Azeroth = A Zereth has to be stupidest fan theory I've seen across in any franchise, ever.



The way Metzen phrased Midnight at BlizzCon makes this somewhat hard to believe. He said we would "make our stand with the forces of Light and banish the Shadow forever". So unless there's some plot twist there where us siding with the Light is actually the wrong move, then I don't see the bad guys winning in Midnight.

I actually have a way they can connect the Azeroth Zereth stuff without the obvious "she is A-Zereth" weirdness.

Simple. Instead of being the last Titan, she was actually the first child of the Progenitors, hence why her name is so similar to the Zereths outside of coincidence, because she was the first child the Progenitors named, and based her name off the Zereths she is fundamentally linked to.

This explains why she is important, it gives a perfect connection between her and the Progenitors, it explains the whole "she is not the last, but the first" line, and it could possibly explain what the Titans conspiracy is.

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Cause I always found her being the final Titan...strange to say the least. Especially with her potential being so high, as well as the fact that she has the voice of a grown woman, etc. I really don't think she is as young as we originally believed.

[Vakir]

And neither is Midnight the end of the story. The heroes don't win in act 2.

Correct, but we established that. I feel like you're entering into this conversation without the context for the last 15 posts in it. My point is we're more likely to get a Pyrrhic victory or have some other negative consequences (like Sargeras stabbing the planet despite a win over the actual last boss) without explicitly failing against the final fight of Midnight.

TLT seems to be about bigger potatoes and probably a consequence of Midnight. Why else would the Titans return in the first place and why would the conspiracy be the bigger focus?

Not to say that we're bound to lose to the Void in Midnight, because I agree with you saying heroes winning in act 2 isn't how that works, but I think there's far more context to what TLT will be that may determine what our outcome vs the Void truly means. We could win, but it could set other things into motion, whatever the "vast conspiracy" is, which is ultimately a far larger loss.

Right, this.

[Joshuaj]

Correct, but we established that. I feel like you're entering into this conversation without the context for the last 15 posts in it. My point is we're more likely to get a Pyrrhic victory or have some other negative consequences (like Sargeras stabbing the planet despite a win over the actual last boss) without explicitly failing against the final fight of Midnight.

TLT seems to be about bigger potatoes and probably a consequence of Midnight. Why else would the Titans return in the first place and why would the conspiracy be the bigger focus?



Right, this.

My theory is that we either beat Dimensius or we banish him (Hopefully we fight and kill him), but before his defeat, he either nearly consumes Azeroths world soul, or he nearly corrupts it.

[THEORACLE64]

Anduin not wanting to hold Wrathion back from his wishes, and Wrathion realizing the Isles weren't the homecoming he was expecting and that his place is amongst mortals and dragons..

Man that moved something in me.

And Anduin referencing his time in the Tavern in Pandaria with Wrathion, and realizing he neglected him as a friend for too long

Because despite him being a chaotic, conniving, sneaky lil' sh*t; he only had the best of intentions for Azeroth as a whole, and Anduin's family just so happened to be stuck on the tracks as the outcome-train came rolling in hot.

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Who is Vaephera? Is that Alleria?

Stormwind’s hottest couple is finally heading for that reunion!

[Nibelheimy]

It's actually poetic the last build we get any sort of story content until post-raid, we go back to SL talk.

I'm done talking about it other than I would like a prequel book that gets into the characters of the Eternal Ones. It would sell like shit and contain probably massive spoilers for the rest of WoW so it won't happen, but I think there is some potential there.

I feel like a certain someone who left is back among us.

[Joshuaj]

I feel like a certain someone who left is back among us.

I'm not Voldemort. You can say my name...

[Vakir]

My theory is that we either beat Dimensius or we banish him (Hopefully we fight and kill him), but before his defeat, he either nearly consumes Azeroths world soul, or he nearly corrupts it.

Gut feeling remains:

Partial corruption happens at the last minute. The Titans pull a Reply Code Omega but return themselves and they don't trust us to manage Azeroth. Shove her in a prison, fulfilling the logo. We stop the Pantheon, Azeroth is revealed to actually be a tabula rasa, the Titans had actually been enforcing Order on many unborn worlds, some having been formed themselves in that way, under their twisted version of "protection." We break the constant cycle of external forces trying to claim her, for now.

(How Illidan and Sargeras still chilling in the Seat without them sealing it would work, I do not know.)

For the love of god, the next 20 years hopefully focus on something else.

[Joshuaj]

Gut feeling remains:

Partial corruption happens at the last minute. The Titans pull a Reply Code Omega but return themselves and they don't trust us to manage Azeroth. Shove her in a prison, fulfilling the logo. We stop the Pantheon, Azeroth is revealed to actually be a tabula rasa, the Titans had actually been enforcing Order on many unborn worlds, some having been formed themselves in that way, under their twisted version of "protection." We break the constant cycle of external forces trying to claim her, for now.

(How Illidan and Sargeras still chilling in the Seat without them sealing it would work, I do not know.)

For the love of god, the next 20 years hopefully focus on something else.

I would actually like this a lot, and I think the conspiracy would be akin to this, but with a greater Azeroth connection, primarily in regards to why Azeroth's so important, and why the First Ones gave the Titans specifically the gift of entering the Beyond, etc.

Wouldn't be shocked if the Titans were kinda binding Azeroth in a way already, primarily in a secret plan known as "protocol stasis" or summ like that lol

[Vakir]

I would actually like this a lot, and I think the conspiracy would be akin to this, but with a greater Azeroth connection, primarily in regards to why Azeroth's so important, and why the First Ones gave the Titans specifically the gift of entering the Beyond, etc.

Wouldn't be shocked if the Titans were kinda binding Azeroth in a way already, primarily in a secret plan known as "protocol stasis" or summ like that lol

Still not a First Ones fan, but a way to maybe reconcile it so long-time lore people that don't like the change and people actually interested in the new Zereth stuff win is that the First Ones trusted the Titans with said gifts and the Titans did something duplicitous with them and either abused said power or usurped them/imprisoned them elsewhere.

Without the chance to send a message that something is off, the various automa continued with business as usual which is why everything we've run into is so damn rigid and why the First Ones just seem like a rehash of the watchmaker god archetype out of Deism, full deus otiosus. They have no idea that their purpose has been completely hijacked. In truth, the forces we thought were "Gods" for 20+ years are actually false pretender gods, and they can (hopefully) just keep anything else related to the First Ones a mystery for the foreseeable future, but we know that they are out there - somewhere.

I personally liked the idea that the Titans were dead back when we thought they were 100% our makers in Chronicle 1, but that ship sailed, and it's a tall order to believe the Titans could have killed them. So, betrayed and imprisoned somewhere in the cosmos it is. The more we reveal too much too soon, the less interesting it is.

Azeroth can be the seventh force which is just untapped potential without being bound by a specific alignment or philosophy. She's important because she has a lot of it. Bing bang boom, that leaves most open elements accounted for.