The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Santandame]

This is a time of resolutions and ultimatums.

If you don't get Undermine in TWW, you are NEVER getting Undermine.

If you don't get Forest Trolls and Ethereals in Midnight, you are NEVER getting Forest Trolls and Ethereals.

Better start praying for Undermine, clock's ticking.

Pretty much.

Undermine came along with either a South Seas expansion or an underground expansion. We have the underground expansion, and we’re not getting South Seas for a very, very, very long time if ever at this point. After The World Soul saga, Avaloren, Kalimdor and the return of the Legion seem to be the most likely concepts to go with. Undermine doesn’t fit there.

[Makorus]

Some people would rather not play the core fantasy of a race for the sake of their own character and RP. Player agency matters most.

The Dracthyr lore is that they are draconic soldiers, not that they are all Evokers. They have been shown to have warriors and the other classes make sense to have.

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My question- why don't the devs just say "we don't have the resources to do this"? Doesn't XIV usually handle questions in that way? Are they scared of what the audience might do if they started talking honestly in game dev terms?

Not every Dracthyr is an Evoker, but Evokers are *specifically* Dracthyr.

[Santandame]

This is a time of resolutions and ultimatums.

If you don't get Azshara in Cataclysm, you are NEVER getting Azshara.

That’s a pretty poor comparison. Cataclysm was ostensibly a Deathwing expansion. It was marketed as such and Azshara had no presence in the expansion aside from briefly appearing during a quest in Darkshore. There were plenty more, better suited potential opportunities for Azshara to show up in an expansion than Cataclysm.

[Varodoc]

Pretty much.

Undermine came along with either a South Seas expansion or an underground expansion. We have the underground expansion, and we’re not getting South Seas for a very, very, very long time if ever at this point. After The World Soul saga, Avaloren, Kalimdor and the return of the Legion seem to be the most likely concepts to go with. Undermine doesn’t fit there.

Yeah, people need to understand that WoW isn't going to last 50 years lol.

The South Seas are done. BfA was the South Seas expansion, introducing two major naval island-kingdoms, Kul Tiras and Zandalar, as well as a major sea-based villain, Azshara and the Naga. And also introducing their underwater kingdom of Nazjatar.

TWW will be the Underground expansion. With TWW, the Underground/Dwarf theme is done.

It's only logical that Undermine will either come in TWW or never come up again.

In the same vein, since Midnight is both a Void and Quel'Thalas expansion, if you're not getting Etherals and Forest Trolls in that expansion, then they will never come up again.

It's not really that difficult to understand.

[Xilurm]

I always pick race-class that make sense for me. In my perfect WoW every race would have options only to limited amount (with lore of each deepened and explained), but it's not even like this ship sailed years ago - it was simply never there, combos like Gnome Warrior exist since start. Other people playing weird combos doesn't bother me though.

Same here. I even go far enough to make it specific to gender too. Like Druid male Night Elf and Hunter and Priest female Night Elf.

Something that bothers me slightly about my current Priest main is that it's just about the light. The fantasy of "priestess of Elune" isn't even there because that somehow belongs more to the druids than anything. Not to mention that the title High Priest isn't called High Priestess on female characters which makes me not wanna use it.

[Ersula]

Not every Dracthyr is an Evoker

Yes they are. They were literally made that way.

Same here. I even go far enough to make it specific to gender too. Like Druid male Night Elf and Hunter and Priest female Night Elf.

That seems so far removed from realism. Nothing is stopping the people in this setting from being a Hunter, or a Warrior, or in a magical setting, even a mage or warlock. They are simple, martial vocations. Vocations, classes, etc, are not genetic, they are skills. It makes sense to restrict it so say, Evoker, Demon Hunter or Crypt Lord, etc, but why are we limiting the internal logic of jobs people can have?

He said undead, not forsaken. And yes, all DKs are undead, that's the only option.

In that instance undead is a state of being, not a player race, and therefor not comparable to the prospect of other races learning how to be an Evoker.

You can say only Drakthyr can be evokers because of their innate abilities, but it makes as much sense as them essentially "turning off" their flight & breath powers in order to be Warriors, priests, etc.

I just don't understand how people will say class/race restrictions are good, then when they make Hero Classes, classes in which the race restrictions actually make sense, suddenly everyone is on board with getting rid of those. Getting rid of race restrictions for normal classes & keeping them for Hero Classes makes sense....but for some reason WoW is doing the opposite? What are we doing here, Ion?

Yeah, people need to understand that WoW isn't going to last 50 years lol.

Ultima Online & Everquest are still running & getting updates.

[Xilurm]

That seems so far removed from realism. Nothing is stopping the people in this setting from being a Hunter, or a Warrior, or in a magical setting, even a mage or warlock. They are simple, martial vocations. Vocations, classes, etc, are not genetic, they are skills. It makes sense to restrict it so say, Evoker, Demon Hunter or Crypt Lord, etc, but why are we limiting the internal logic of jobs people can have?

I just really like the Night Elven culture of WC3.

[Chickat]

Are the underground zones actually on top of each other? The continent maps shows all of them adjacent to each other.

Its kind of like a 3 step staircase. Very small decline into the next zone but the zones are mostly beside eachother.

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Yes, it’s essentially elf-players looking for another elven-style race to RP with. It’s annoying watching Blizzard kowtow to their every whim.

I just want to be able to see my armor.

[Zardas]

That’s a pretty poor comparison. Cataclysm was ostensibly a Deathwing expansion. It was marketed as such and Azshara had no presence in the expansion aside from briefly appearing during a quest in Darkshore. There were plenty more, better suited potential opportunities for Azshara to show up in an expansion than Cataclysm.

And yet people on this very forum were adamant that we would be getting Azshara. In fact, more believed that she would be the end boss, and not Deathwing : https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-be-final-boss

Yeah, people need to understand that WoW isn't going to last 50 years lol.

And why would that be ?

The South Seas are done. BfA was the South Seas expansion, introducing two major naval island-kingdoms, Kul Tiras and Zandalar, as well as a major sea-based villain, Azshara and the Naga. And also introducing their underwater kingdom of Nazjatar.

TWW will be the Underground expansion. With TWW, the Underground/Dwarf theme is done.

It's only logical that Undermine will either come in TWW or never come up again.

In the same vein, since Midnight is both a Void and Quel'Thalas expansion, if you're not getting Etherals and Forest Trolls in that expansion, then they will never come up again.

It's not really that difficult to understand.

In 50 years, all those expansions will belong in a museum, and we could totally see another take on the south seas, the underground, the void, and whatever else they have already done.

I just don't understand how people will say class/race restrictions are good

I, at least, never said that. You, however, said that people would rather play a class designed around the idea of a dragon with a class that's not a dragon, and you still haven't explained why that would be the case.

[Raetary]

https://twitter.com/DraevianArt/stat...296137/photo/1

A mention of Freya that isn't an obscure in-game booklet or a 3rd party source.

Her time to finally do something is nigh!

[Chickat]

I deleted the comment because i saw a list yesterday but i don't know if it's official

edit: found it

https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaks...see_more_than/

'Starfield: Shattered Space

Age of Empires II

Age of Mythology

Microsoft Flight Sim 2024

Indiana Jones and the Great Circle

Diablo IV: Vessel of Hatred

World of Warcraft: The War Within

Towerborne

Avowed

DOOM: The Dark Ages

Gears of War 6

Fable

South of Midnight

Thats a stacked list. If thats true, they win Summergames/E3 whatever you want to call it this year.

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I can't imagine people want to play Drakthyr that much. People would vastly prefer Evoker on any other race than a Drakthyr anything.

I like Dracthyr if I can see my armor.

[zeir]

I hope they announce an expanded plunderstorm br, droppping the pirate theme and coming to gamepass. Anything else will be boring.

[Santandame]

And yet people on this very forum were adamant that we would be getting Azshara. In fact, more believed that she would be the end boss, and not Deathwing : https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-be-final-boss

That doesn’t support your point like you think it does. If a small sample size of people thought that Azshara would be the end boss of Cataclysm after a cinematic detailing Deathwing bursting forth from Deepholm and laying havoc to the world, a cinematic that doesn’t feature Azshara in the slightest then that’s a foolish thought train.

She was never going to be the main antagonist of Cataclysm. I have no idea how anyone could come to that conclusion. Whilst she certainly would have fit with that expansion theme, there’s much better, more fitting expansion ideas for her to be a feature in. Blizzard evidently thought so too.

It’s in no way comparable to Undermine being omitted from the underground expansion. As has already been said, it’s the most logical, fitting place for it to show up.

Could Undermine show up in an Avaloren expansion? Or one focused on Northern Kalimdor featuring Yrel invading and taking over Azuremyst or Denathrius returning with the Legion and laying siege to Nordrassil? I mean, it’s possible in the sense that anything is possible - but why would it?

Be realistic. If we don’t get Undermine in The War Within, we are almost certainly never going to get it. It’s a very minute chance that we do, if we were to after this expansion. Which is a shame. I’m of the opinion Undermine should have been a capital city or a zone for an expansion. But alas, here we are.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I can't imagine people want to play Drakthyr that much. People would vastly prefer Evoker on any other race than a Drakthyr anything.

Or they could add customization options to Dracthyr to make them not look like thin tumblr scalies and more like the strong beastmen everyone wanted. That would raise the number of active Evoker characters, much like how adding a straight posture option raised the number of Orc players.

[justwatching]

I never even considered trying Evoker because of those horrible models. It's probably the one class I'll never play.

[Nightshade711]

Or they could add customization options to Dracthyr to make them not look like thin tumblr scalies and more like the strong beastmen everyone wanted. That would raise the number of active Evoker characters, much like how adding a straight posture option raised the number of Orc players.

Hell, even if they looked like they did in the Legacies cinematic they’d be so much better.

[Eldryth]

That doesn’t support your point like you think it does. If a small sample size of people thought that Azshara would be the end boss of Cataclysm after a cinematic detailing Deathwing bursting forth from Deepholm and laying havoc to the world, a cinematic that doesn’t feature Azshara in the slightest then that’s a foolish thought train.

She was never going to be the main antagonist of Cataclysm. I have no idea how anyone could come to that conclusion. Whilst she certainly would have fit with that expansion theme, there’s much better, more fitting expansion ideas for her to be a feature in. Blizzard evidently thought so too.

I assume that those theories probably came from people clinging to the initial leaks. Cataclysm was leaked before the official announcement- on this site, in fact. The leak got just about everything right... except for the fact that it had Deathwing and Azshara sharing the villain role and causing the Cataclysm together.

I don't know whether that was just outright wrong or if it was changed early on, but I could see how people would cling to it and expect Azshara to come into focus later, especially with Vashj'ir ending on a cliffhanger (that was resolved offscreen 3 expansions later).

[huth]

In that instance undead is a state of being, not a player race, and therefor not comparable to the prospect of other races learning how to be an Evoker.

So is being an Evoker. It's not something you learn. It's something you are born/created as. Only Dracthyr can be Evokers.

[Zardas]

That doesn’t support your point like you think it does. If a small sample size of people thought that Azshara would be the end boss of Cataclysm after a cinematic detailing Deathwing bursting forth from Deepholm and laying havoc to the world, a cinematic that doesn’t feature Azshara in the slightest then that’s a foolish thought train.

She was never going to be the main antagonist of Cataclysm. I have no idea how anyone could come to that conclusion. Whilst she certainly would have fit with that expansion theme, there’s much better, more fitting expansion ideas for her to be a feature in. Blizzard evidently thought so too.

It’s in no way comparable to Undermine being omitted from the underground expansion. As has already been said, it’s the most logical, fitting place for it to show up.

Could Undermine show up in an Avaloren expansion? Or one focused on Northern Kalimdor featuring Yrel invading and taking over Azuremyst or Denathrius returning with the Legion and laying siege to Nordrassil? I mean, it’s possible in the sense that anything is possible - but why would it?

Be realistic. If we don’t get Undermine in The War Within, we are almost certainly never going to get it. It’s a very minute chance that we do, if we were to after this expansion. Which is a shame. I’m of the opinion Undermine should have been a capital city or a zone for an expansion. But alas, here we are.

What it shows is that people can't see very far in the future. For people back in the day, Cata was THE "sea expansion" with a whole underwwater zone and plenty of older zones being destroyed by the fury element. They couldn't forsee that years later we would see another take on this theme and actually get Azshara. Just like, right now, you believe that this is THE "underground expansion" and that we won't ever see another take on it. You can't forsee that, maybe in 50 years, we might have another shot at it.

[Varodoc]

What it shows is that people can't see very far in the future. For people back in the day, Cata was THE "sea expansion" with a whole underwwater zone and plenty of older zones being destroyed by the fury element. They couldn't forsee that years later we would see another take on this theme and actually get Azshara. Just like, right now, you believe that this is THE "underground expansion" and that we won't ever see another take on it. You can't forsee that, maybe in 50 years, we might have another shot at it.

This is historical revisionism.

I have literally never seen anyone call Cataclysm the "sea expansion".

Cataclysm is as much a "sea expansion" as Legion is a sea expansion.