The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

This is always the funniest and dumbest thing people can bring up. the horde is literally colonialism and always has been.

I know you're the master of whataboutism, but I already said both factions actions are considered normal for a medieval fantasy setting focused on war. Though you are treating the old horde like its the same thing, despite the current horde being started by Thrall, a war orphan who was born into slavery by the alliance. And even then the old horde were conscripted by literal space demons who destroyed their planet & who were only there because they were chasing the Draenei.

Also the founding of Durotar was specifically not colonialism considering it was the expressed purpose of rebuilding the Tauren & Troll's homes who were destroyed by the centaurs & kul tirans, who were actually colonizing the area. The orcs were invited to live there.

Alliance are culturally colonialist. In that their actions aren't any different from the Hordes, but they constantly take the perspective of moral superiority.

[Cheezits]

Its the detail on the buildings/tents and armor.

In bfa there was a certain shine or polish on everything. It looked to new. None of the masks and design were used, only as inspiration. The questing gear was suppose to look somewhat like that. They failed at bringing back that design, which people loved.

It all ended up looking very polished and new, altho the empire is suppose to be old. I liked the mop version way more.

It makes sense for Zul's wacky expedition to have weathered armor, but yeah, it was touched up to make Zandalar look more "grand" to the average customer.

While I have a lot of problems with how BFA did Zandalar, establishing them as a "fancy kingdom" on par with Silvermoon and Suramar (they are the third "magic empire" Horde has under its belt imo, almost a subfaction) was well done and if it means they have to look more garish than Mists, i'll take it.

[Super Dickmann]

It is but the fact that it seems to exclusively be pointed towards the alliance when it’s the horde who actually have a endless stream of doing so makes it so much more so.

Like missing the point is one thing but doing it this hard is just extra silly.

Yes, but there's also no point in engaging with that line of argument, because the people who do it consist 99% of zero-sum race activists waging proxy politics in a video game, which is far from the only place where their positions should be thrown out post-haste.

[Ersula]

Yes, but there's also no point in engaging with that line of argument, because the people who do it consist 99% of zero-sum race activists waging proxy politics in a video game, which is far from the only place where their positions should be thrown out post-haste.

Is it wrong to enjoy the political aspects of fantasy? Or is this a case of people getting extra defensive when others point out the delusions in their established ideology?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Also the founding of Durotar was specifically not colonialism considering it was the expressed purpose of rebuilding the Tauren & Troll's homes who were destroyed by the centaurs & kul tirans, who were actually colonizing the area. The orcs were invited to live there.

you’ve never quested through Durotar have you?

When we arrived, the Razormane quilboars possessed much of the land, and proved a thorn in our sides. Through our efforts we have driven out the largest part of their numbers, but still they remain well-fortified in some areas.

It has gone on long enough, however. For our own protection, we cannot allow the Razormane any hold in our lands. Their camps can be found to the west of here. Look for the brambles and you will find them. Today we drive them from Durotar, tomorrow, perhaps from all of Kalimdor.

Progress


Though they do possess some intelligence and some organization, I find it constantly amazing that the quilboars were able to capture and hold so much territory in Kalimdor. Perhaps they are more crafty an enemy than I give them credit for...

Completion

I will pass along word that the quilboars have been removed from their lairs, and that their structures may be set to fire. The removal of the Razormane from Durotar brings us closer to fully securing the borders of our new homeland

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Encroachment

They literally colonize it explicitly.

Alliance are culturally colonialist. In that their actions aren't any different from the Hordes, but they constantly take the perspective of moral superiority.

were coming off of the hordes like what 5th genocide in recent history after they tried to colonize Kalimdor/the world in BFA, so Mabye the alliance comes off as morally superior because they actually are? Nan that couldn’t be the case.

Like just look at mop remix mate, the horde goes to Pandaria for the express purpose of colonizing and the alliance goes there to find Anduin and then protect heritage sites when Varian shows up.

One of these things are not like the other.

[Lahis]

This is always the funniest and dumbest thing people can bring up. the horde is literally colonialism and always has been.

They tried to colonize Azeroth in WC1/2

Tried to colonize Ashenvale in WC3.

Do colonize Duratar in wow with explicate quest about how they are killing and chasing the quillboars off there land for the horde to claim.

Let the blood elfs join in TBC who lead all the troll Colonizing.

Try to colonize mop with it being the express purpose of them being there.

The iron horde then shows they don’t need the legion to be colonizers.

And then try to colonize the rest of Kalimdor in the war of thorns before expanding to the rest of the world again.

When it comes to colonialism the horde are the bad guys and always have been.

The Horde doesn't colonize, they conquer.

Sure they'll take the land, but they'll also make sure there aren't any pesky natives left to govern over.

[Nymrohd]

Is it wrong to enjoy the political aspects of fantasy? Or is this a case of people getting extra defensive when others point out the delusions in their established ideology?

If you are simply inventing it so you can project whatever you want however your bias flies . . .yes, it is wrong.

[Ersula]

you’ve never quested through Durotar have you?

Only you would find the one instance where they call "thunder bluff" durotar because we were clearly talking about the Orgrimmar. The conflict of the Quillboar & Tauren predates the Horde on azeroth by thousands of years.

If you are simply inventing it so you can project whatever you want however your bias flies . . .yes, it is wrong.

When I say politics I mean the logistics of nations rationalizing their movements based on religion, resources & culture within a fictional setting. When you say politics you are talking about some moral commentary on the real world. We are not the same.

[Super Dickmann]

Is it wrong to enjoy the political aspects of fantasy? Or is this a case of people getting extra defensive when others point out the delusions in their established ideology?

Oh, of course not, but as said, these positions are zero-sum and so engagement is just for sport, no one's convincing each other. A position where the game attempts to discuss colonialism from a modern-day Western sensibility when its entire loop and premise is based around racial conflict will invariably either fall flat on its face or gut said foundation of the franchise and is thus undesirable.

[Alanar]

It makes sense for Zul's wacky expedition to have weathered armor, but yeah, it was touched up to make Zandalar look more "grand" to the average customer.

While I have a lot of problems with how BFA did Zandalar, establishing them as a "fancy kingdom" on par with Silvermoon and Suramar (they are the third "magic empire" Horde has under its belt imo, almost a subfaction) was well done and if it means they have to look more garish than Mists, i'll take it.

Mop version simply looked way more detailed in everything. Something that just wasnt there in bfa. It feels like a completely differnt artstyle almost. You can see it very clearly at their boats. Look at the ToT version boats. They look mean, aggressive, detailed, lots of props. Bfa version.. looks alnost like it was made from plastic, to much polished features. Etc. I see your point, but I am not throwing it at zuls wacky expedition, why it looked differnt. Its just a differnt style as a whole. Its also the zandalari trolls themselves and their armor. Something we dont see anywere else besides tot.

Ye, I personally even with mop in mind still love Zandalar. The Zandalari trolls always intriuged me, because of stories and Ilse of thunder enhanced it. Could it looked better, ofc, but no point in complaining anymore. We knew this for a while, but its nice to look back at it now because of remix. My opinion on this matter is still the same as it was in bfa. But the ToT zandalari were peak design and art style for them imo. I am just happy they kept the upright idle and proud walk. Shame they changed the running animation to look so dumb.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Only you would find the one instance where they call "thunder bluff" durotar because we were clearly talking about the Orgrimmar. The conflict of the Quillboar & Tauren predates the Horde by thousands of years.

The quest text literally says Durotar and I linked it you goomba.

Gar'Thok The orc standing in razor hill giving our quest in Durotar where he mentions removing them from Durotar isn’t talking about thunder bluff.

https://www.wowhead.com/classic/quest=837/encroachment
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/npc=3139/garthok

[Nymrohd]

When I say politics I mean the logistics of nations rationalizing their movements based on religion, resources & culture within a fictional setting. When you say politics you are talking about some moral commentary on the real world. We are not the same.

Here is the thing. You are saying that the Alliance is a colonial culture. How so? Beyond the basic fact that they do not have a colonial structure, what part of their culture is colonial? Were is the Alliance periphery? Where is the core utilizing the periphery's resources? How is their religion a reason for them being considered colonial when they do not practice evangelism or send forth missions in any form? You may think you are doing political theory here but I very much just see bias.

[Ksgrip]

The Alliance to Pandarans in Pandaria. The Alliance to the Trolls historically, The Night elves trying to turn southern Kalimdor into a forest is equally messed up what the Forsaken do, considering ecologically, its not destroyed, its just better suited to the Forsaken specifically. That last thing I assume you're talking about is either warlocks or blood magic, which the Alliance has, not to mention enslaving souls against the natural order was invented by Odyn, a vrykul dogma that evolved into the church of holy light.

The alliance are European imperialist coded based on how they look and what they do. Given the norms of medieval fantasy & various civilizations trying to survive in this chaotic, magical world, the methodology isn't out of the ordinary for any of the major factions. The core difference between the two factions is that the Alliance are extra judgmental about it. They push their culture on everyone because they believe it's better while the Horde accepts different cultural perspectives. Basically, the Alliance is colonialism.Tell that to Nato. Personally I don't think the invasion of Ukraine by Russia was the result of Nato existing, but a lot of people insist that's the reason.

I am outright reporting you because of that crap you just spewed about Ukraine. This is not the place to bring real world suffering and killings.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The Horde doesn't colonize, they conquer.

Sure they'll take the land, but they'll also make sure there aren't any pesky natives left to govern over.

That’s true, the alliance should have taken a note from there book and then people wouldn’t have these silly complaints.

[loras]

This is rather dismissive and pointlessly contrarian for the sake of it.

Blizzard evidently thinks Shadowlands did enough damage to put it as a bullet point in their leaked investor presentation. So clearly its not irrelevant to them.

This.
A dumpster fire of that size is hard to miss, even if you try to dismiss story as being in irrelevant in an RPG. Which is a pretty hot take.

[Aucald]

This thread is for the discussion of future WoW content, not the previous faction conflict and/or which faction does or doesn't represent the idea of colonialism. Let's pivot away from this irrelevant and derailing argument and return to the actual topic of discussion in this thread.

[Cheezits]

Now that we have reached the stage where the twitteroth illuminati can and will force Blizz to change quest text, what do we think isn't going to make it to launch?

[Makabreska]

Now that we have reached the stage where the twitteroth illuminati can and will force Blizz to change quest text, what do we think isn't going to make it to launch?

Why did you feel to create this topic? Are you trying to get prematurely triggered?

[Cheezits]

Why did you feel to create this topic? Are you trying to get prematurely triggered?

Because there is no more future speculation content for the expansion launch to be revealed, so we may as well discuss what is likely to change.

[Joshuaj]

Did anyone else see this?




Turalyon is based.

Oh, by the way, if this was Pre-Lawsuit/Pre-Disney Blizzard, he would have called her the G word (aka "Greenskin").

WoW players play their own game challenge (impossible)

Her skin isn't green, dude.