The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Jastall]

Here me out
Legion ends at Tomb with Illidan opening the Argus portal. Pre-expansion event is Legion invasions Redux with even more zones. Storyline has Velen reach out to A'dal who brings Tempest Keep to Azeroth. We use Tempest Keep to get to Argus and it serves as the expansion capital
First zone is a combination of Antoran Wastes and Krokuun. Army of Light has a massive encampment trying to gain back the Xenedar which is the first dungeon. The reason the Krokul still exist is sustainable soul farming (the Eredar just allow them to be around in case they need more souls for their engines so they never fully cull them). Brox is alive and he is the Krokul war leader cause the orcs need SOME engagement in this xpac! At end of zone storyline we reunite X'era inside Tempest Keep, Illidan kills her. We get A'dal to tell us how this is not their way and what X'era did was wrong.
Second zone is Eredath. Instead of killing the Void Ethereals we ally with them (they betray us in a patch).
Third zone is the Halls of the Boundless Reach, the place with Portal Keeper Hazabel. instead of being in Antorus it becomes a small zone in its own floating shard of Argus. We have the full might of the Light and Void assisting us in attacking the Legion there so we can cut down reinforcements. This is more of a leveling scenario than a zone proper, Tempest Keep will also move to this area once we secure it.
This unlocks the rest of the expansion zones; Xoroth and Rancora. Xoroth will be a firelands-like zone and Rancora is a jungle so they look quite different to Antoran Wastes. As expansion content we unlock the ruins of Nathreza (which I guess would look like Revendreth?) and a massive Eredar city with Suramar like mechanics that would look like a lush paradise beneath a massive Echodome like the ones ethereals use in Netherstorm; think Shattrath but in red, gold and black, the Sargerai colors.

Invasion points can be an expansion mechanic like Island Expeditions where we use the Halls to reach Legion worlds for resources (and maybe an ally or two). KJ is still alive and I'd have Velen's wife be the main expac villain having replaced him as a Triumvir. Raids would be an entry tier with two small raid locations in Rancora and Xoroth, then the Citadel of the Nathrezim in Nathreza, the new Palace of the Triumvirate and finally Antorus. Antorus would not be demons except for Shivara, it will all be Sargeras' keepers and constellar.

In theory it works, in practice I think it would feel too disjointed to go from planet to planet like this. Again, this was a criticism of Shadowlands and it's not any better in your scenario, I think. Not to rain on your parade because I personally would have liked an Argus + Legion expansion, but I don't think it was workable just after a Broken Isles + Legion expansion. Plus what we got was quite good, it wasn't like BfA which got through faction war/Zandalari/Kul Tiras + Najzatar + Black Empire in a single expansion, where any of those ideas would have worked as separate xpacks and themes.

[Padwarle]

I really hope that once the time comes for pandaren heritage armor, it's set on a present day Wandering Isle with Master Shang Xi's tree fully grown. I would love that.

[Darkarath]

The wailing about Remix is seriously unreal.

It has been out for a week. It is going to be live for 3 months. The one currency system works perfectly. The problem is that people wants to get everything ASAP without putting the least effort.

I have not improved a single piece of my gear. I do not even have all the pieces of gear. I have not put a single gem (stats gems, I of course use skills gems) in my gear because I just like to wait until I have all of them ready at max level. I have not farmed anything. Just questing. The first days I could die if I pulled too many enemies, but since the hotfixes I kill everything easily. I am a warlock at max level, in case that someone is interested.

The most "difficult" time might be when you reach max level, but threads are literally raining everywhere when you do so and very quickly you are overpowered again.

It is an experiment, BTW, and they have been very quick reacting to feedback (although some mistakes should not have been there in the first place). Overall, I think that this is a huge success, I am looking forward for what twist they create when they do the next one. The same thing in a different expansion would be cool but meh, hopefully they will surprise us again.

[Nymrohd]

I really hope that once the time comes for pandaren heritage armor, it's set on a present day Wandering Isle with Master Shang Xi's tree fully grown. I would love that.

I mean player Pandaren are from the Wandering Isle so yeah, I'd hope for something similar. Though I would love if it also involves the rest of Pandaria with possibly restoring the Peak of Serenity. And at the end have the August Celestials all arrive at the Wandering Isle and deliver a blessing.

Also at the end let Pandaren have permanent access to the Isle.

[Scyth]

The wailing about Remix is seriously unreal.

It has been out for a week. It is going to be live for 3 months. The one currency system works perfectly. The problem is that people wants to get everything ASAP without putting the least effort.

I have not improved a single piece of my gear. I do not even have all the pieces of gear. I have not put a single gem (stats gems, I of course use skills gems) in my gear because I just like to wait until I have all of them ready at max level. I have not farmed anything. Just questing. The first days I could die if I pulled too many enemies, but since the hotfixes I kill everything easily. I am a warlock at max level, in case that someone is interested.

The most "difficult" time might be when you reach max level, but threads are literally raining everywhere when you do so and very quickly you are overpowered again.

It is an experiment, BTW, and they have been very quick reacting to feedback (although some mistakes should not have been there in the first place). Overall, I think that this is a huge success, I am looking forward for what twist they create when they do the next one. The same thing in a different expansion would be cool but meh, hopefully they will surprise us again.

Some players just want to get everything immediately and never log in again. Honestly makes it sound like they are suffering when playing WoW lol

That said, the state in which Remix is now is the state in which it should have released.

I've played it a decent amount and still enjoying it tbh. It's a breath of fresh air.

[Foolicious]

Argus, the headquarters of BL, was the last minute addition in expansion that was meant to finally deal with BL?

I didn't really have time to answer in time, but yes. While i can't prove anything and things change all the time in game development there are just too many things that coincide with leaks that spelled out the original plan for legion. But here are a few key parts that make me think it makes sense.

So the plan could have looked like Broken isles->Taldranath->Tomb of sargeras.

With Taldranath being a proper introduction to azshara and looking like nazjatar in bfa because its elven ruins raised from the sea by guldan.
Tomb ends with kil'jaeden dead, the avatar of sargeras destroyed and the portal destroyed/absorbed to free n'zoth which would lead us into a azshara/n'zoth expansion. Which still kinda happened.
This would expain why in bfa the assumed position of n'zoths prison moved from the broken shore to the maelstrom, why the naga were in the tomb of sargeras and some whispers of xal about the tomb. Like hinting that n'zoths prison is under there.

And for the legion; We killed both commanders and we closed the portal. The concept of argus the world soul constantly rebirthing demons isn't introduced and Sargeras can't reach us without a portal. So the legion isn't destroyed, but defeated still.

Then there are the rumours that someone at blizzard wanted sylvanas to have a much bigger role so the whole thing had to change to give her a bigger role in the next expansions.

It just makes to much sense for me personally that argus and antorus was not in the original concept of legion.

[Treegdar]

I didn't really have time to answer in time, but yes. While i can't prove anything and things change all the time in game development there are just too many things that coincide with leaks that spelled out the original plan for legion. But here are a few key parts that make me think it makes sense.

So the plan could have looked like Broken isles->Taldranath->Tomb of sargeras.

With Taldranath being a proper introduction to azshara and looking like nazjatar in bfa because its elven ruins raised from the sea by guldan.
Tomb ends with kil'jaeden dead, the avatar of sargeras destroyed and the portal destroyed/absorbed to free n'zoth which would lead us into a azshara/n'zoth expansion. Which still kinda happened.
This would expain why in bfa the assumed position of n'zoths prison moved from the broken shore to the maelstrom, why the naga were in the tomb of sargeras and some whispers of xal about the tomb. Like hinting that n'zoths prison is under there.

And for the legion; We killed both commanders and we closed the portal. The concept of argus the world soul constantly rebirthing demons isn't introduced and Sargeras can't reach us without a portal. So the legion isn't destroyed, but defeated still.

Then there are the rumours that someone at blizzard wanted sylvanas to have a much bigger role so the whole thing had to change to give her a bigger role in the next expansions.

It just makes to much sense for me personally that argus and antorus was not in the original concept of legion.

Isn't it basically confirmed by Blizz that Argus wasn't in the original plan? At least I always interpreted it that way. Think it was during the Legion alpha/beta when we were first seeing that thal'dranath wasn't actually a thing in the game compared to the annoucement. In an interview to quell fears coming off of WoD and its mountain of cut content Ion said that Thaldranath was originally gonna be a patch zone with a sort of elven ruin vibe but they changed plans to something "much cooler". Always assumed the change was us going to Argus.

[Polybius]

Isn't it basically confirmed by Blizz that Argus wasn't in the original plan? At least I always interpreted it that way. Think it was during the Legion alpha/beta when we were first seeing that thal'dranath wasn't actually a thing in the game compared to the annoucement. In an interview to quell fears coming off of WoD and its mountain of cut content Ion said that Thaldranath was originally gonna be a patch zone with a sort of elven ruin vibe but they changed plans to something "much cooler". Always assumed the change was us going to Argus.

Yep, they decided we had enough elven ruins in Azsuna and Suramar.

Unrelated but I think the challenge weapons originally intended to have unique challenges for each one, or challenge appearances were swapped at one point. I say this because an unused Hunter order hall cave has the same aesthetic as the mage tower appearance.

[Lahis]

I have not put a single gem (stats gems, I of course use skills gems) in my gear because I just like to wait until I have all of them ready at max level.

You realize you can remove the gems at any moment? Without losing them? These are not normal sockets that consume gems.

You have been gimping yourself without any good reason.

[huth]

I didn't really have time to answer in time, but yes. While i can't prove anything and things change all the time in game development there are just too many things that coincide with leaks that spelled out the original plan for legion. But here are a few key parts that make me think it makes sense.

Should be noted that "last minute" may well still mean that the decision was made before Legion released.

[Makorus]

I didn't really have time to answer in time, but yes. While i can't prove anything and things change all the time in game development there are just too many things that coincide with leaks that spelled out the original plan for legion. But here are a few key parts that make me think it makes sense.

So the plan could have looked like Broken isles->Taldranath->Tomb of sargeras.

With Taldranath being a proper introduction to azshara and looking like nazjatar in bfa because its elven ruins raised from the sea by guldan.
Tomb ends with kil'jaeden dead, the avatar of sargeras destroyed and the portal destroyed/absorbed to free n'zoth which would lead us into a azshara/n'zoth expansion. Which still kinda happened.
This would expain why in bfa the assumed position of n'zoths prison moved from the broken shore to the maelstrom, why the naga were in the tomb of sargeras and some whispers of xal about the tomb. Like hinting that n'zoths prison is under there.

And for the legion; We killed both commanders and we closed the portal. The concept of argus the world soul constantly rebirthing demons isn't introduced and Sargeras can't reach us without a portal. So the legion isn't destroyed, but defeated still.

Then there are the rumours that someone at blizzard wanted sylvanas to have a much bigger role so the whole thing had to change to give her a bigger role in the next expansions.

It just makes to much sense for me personally that argus and antorus was not in the original concept of legion.

So they changed the expansion to make Sylvanas have a much bigger plot (she doesn't, she is literally the B plot of a zone that's completely irrelevant after 7.0 and she replaces Vol'jin who has done nothing at that point and is hardly even plot development at that point, and also doesn't have any ties to the BL storyline of Legion) and that she would be relevant in the next expansion (which they could have done regardless)?

The rest of the post is just shitty fanfiction lmao.

[Nathanyel]

You realize you can remove the gems at any moment? Without losing them? These are not normal sockets that consume gems.

I heard gems even get placed back in your inventory when you scrap items they were socketed into, so unless you actively delete, sell or trade them (the latter only for stat gems) you cannot lose them.

[Darkarath]

You realize you can remove the gems at any moment? Without losing them? These are not normal sockets that consume gems.

You have been gimping yourself without any good reason.

Oh yes, I know.

I just like to see my collection of gems in my inventory. At some point I will use them, but meh, I do not really need them, honestly.

Now that I think about it, I just cannot bother with gems unless they give something really cool. Last time I use them in my gear was probably... Cataclysm?

[Nymrohd]

Oh yes, I know.

I just like to see my collection of gems in my inventory. At some point I will use them, but meh, I do not really need them, honestly.

Now that I think about it, I just cannot bother with gems unless they give something really cool. Last time I use them in my gear was probably... Cataclysm?

Are you not using the prismatic gems or not even the meta and tinkers???

[Darkarath]

Are you not using the prismatic gems or not even the meta and tinkers???

Yes, as I have already stated, I use and like the gems that give me skills. Those I use. The other ones I am just collecting them at the moment. When I have an adequate blue piece of gear for each slot I will socket them.

Weird I guess, but I am just too lazy with gems.

[Lahis]

Now that I think about it, I just cannot bother with gems unless they give something really cool. Last time I use them in my gear was probably... Cataclysm?

So you haven't done any group content in 13 years.

- - - Updated - - -

I heard gems even get placed back in your inventory when you scrap items they were socketed into, so unless you actively delete, sell or trade them (the latter only for stat gems) you cannot lose them.

I accidentally scrapped items with meta and cogwheel gems in them and I did lose them. But since those two were now the only two I were missing I soon got them back from boss drops.

[Darkarath]

So you haven't done any group content in 13 years.

Exactly. I do not raid, Mythic + or PvP. I want to eventually get into PvP, but I always have just too much stuff to do in WoW. It is a big game

[Makorus]

So you haven't done any group content in 13 years.

- - - Updated - - -



I accidentally scrapped items with meta and cogwheel gems in them and I did lose them. But since those two were now the only two I were missing I soon got them back from boss drops.

Nope, you never lost gems when you scrapped gear they were in. I've been doing that since Day 1.

[huth]

Yes, as I have already stated, I use and like the gems that give me skills. Those I use. The other ones I am just collecting them at the moment. When I have an adequate blue piece of gear for each slot I will socket them.

Weird I guess, but I am just too lazy with gems.

Then you're missing like 50% of your characters power. That is absolutely not a valid play option in Remix.

[Santandame]

So they changed the expansion to make Sylvanas have a much bigger plot (she doesn't, she is literally the B plot of a zone that's completely irrelevant after 7.0 and she replaces Vol'jin who has done nothing at that point and is hardly even plot development at that point, and also doesn't have any ties to the BL storyline of Legion) and that she would be relevant in the next expansion (which they could have done regardless)?

The rest of the post is just shitty fanfiction lmao.

Most of what they said was assumptions and their own belief but anyone with half a brain cell could work out that the original plan for Legion did not include Argus or Antorus, and at some point prior to release that changed. It’s never been outright confirmed from a Blizz rep that “Argus replaces Thal’Dranath” but it was pretty much spelled out to us.

Based off how things were projected to us during Legion’s development, the patch plan seemed to be: launch - Nighthold - Thal’Dranath - Broken Shore + Tomb. At some point prior to release Blizzard had the idea to go with something different and “much cooler” than Thal’Dranath. Considering Broken Shore + Tomb was always intended to be patch content in the game, same with the Nighthold, then the only possible replacement for Thal’Dranath could have been Argus.

As for the Sylvanas stuff, I’ve never heard anything like that so can’t comment.

If I had to make a guess for what Thal’Dranath was going to be - then an educated one would have been Naga related. We know it was primarily Elven ruins. We got a lot of Naga + Azshara content during levelling as well as the Fathom Dweller secret chain. I can only assume it would have been a mix of the continuation of Azsuna’s storyline involving Azshara, Farondis, the sea giants etc as well as some Old God shenanigans as hinted by Drak’thul as well as possibly playing into Azshara x Sargeras. I imagine the Naga content we got in Tomb was originally planned for Thal’Dranath too.