The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

Which is a shame too, because not being able to bring that bit up is a major reason why Alex is so incorrigibly shallow. The game has gotten away with mild body horror previously, especially with the cartoonish style helping out and in terms of text, even the descriptions of what the gnolls do to the bodies they chew on could easily have the same level be applied to some draconic cannibalism.

How to bring that up and have her forgive them? I am sorry but that is just not believable and it would make her completely alien, as if she is compelled to care for all life magically and thus HAS to forgive them. Which is not the truth or else the other Aspects would not have been corrupted so easy; unless of course she is the apex of the Keepers' experiment with Order infusion which makes her obedient to her cause on such a level that she does not even notice which would probably be amazing if true and then she understood what they did to her and bit Tyr's head off (gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss but this time literally anyone?). But that won't happen either.

[Super Dickmann]

How to bring that up and have her forgive them? I am sorry but that is just not believable and it would make her completely alien, as if she is compelled to care for all life magically and thus HAS to forgive them. Which is not the truth or else the other Aspects would not have been corrupted so easy; unless of course she is the apex of the Keepers' experiment with Order infusion which makes her obedient to her cause on such a level that she does not even notice which would probably be amazing if true and then she understood what they did to her and bit Tyr's head off (gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss but this time literally anyone?). But that won't happen either.

Of course it's alien, it also already happened in War Crimes, which is my point earlier in the thread - she says that she still loves them despite what they did to her. It killed any prospective drama for her character in its crib. The way to go for it would be to have her actually be open to "a what was it all for" style reasoning when Ras goes for it given both what happened to her, her fellow Aspects and dragons in general. As is, because all of these things were handwaved away to her non-reaction, she has no arc or character.

[Syegfryed]

Dude, have you ever played in group content with friends? Many times people were locked to specific faction and race that they didn't really like that much, because the guild or just playing with friend required it.

That is how the game was and im completely fine with it.

Well, i could even give the hand for crossfaction groups, but they didn't stop there did they? so i think it was bs.

I don't play only horde, i play mainly horde, but currently i have 5 horde on lvl 70 and 3 lvl 70 alliance toons and my realm(crossrealm with others too) that was actually close to being dead, actually has "high" population now.

Yeah, because the game has run dry, you can't possible think wow is pulling the same numbers now it did years ago, in a time they could mantain two factions and there was enough people to play both.

What do you mean by that?
Another thing you didn't even play the new expansion but you sure have a lot to say about it and how wow in certain places is close to dead, it's a little weird.
Im not the big fan of latest patch, but the game itself has the best reception right now since legion.

I didn't play the new zone, but i still play the game though? i just didn't buy DF and the game is a walking corpse in my region.

Faction war doesn't make sense anymore, because Alliance and horde always team up together to fight the evil that wants to destroy azeroth, there's been plenty of quests about and how mindless faction war destroys Azeroth.

Teaming up, in a broad sense way because it snot that the faction join hand hugged in the battlefield, but because the heroes face the threads is HARDLY a reason to say there is no reason for then to fight anymore, is like saying USA and Russia are the best of buddies because they "team up" to defeat germany in the past. Hell, Horde and alliance "team up" to face the lich king and constantly skirmish with each other in northrend, EVEN IN THE FINAL RAID, that is belivable and what made the game great.
How the game is presented, how the lore is made, it will always make sense to be conflict and war, because the races, the clans/tribes/kingdoms, do not think about "herp derp we can't destroy azeroth with our mindless fight" they think of resource, survival and revenge

It's not new expansion thing, but it's something that was happening since wrathgate, factions fighting with each other was just stupid when instead they should be fighting for their home that might be destroyed, like they do now.

And they will always be fighting for their home, even in smaller scale, outsiders, invaders, usurpers, and most of the times those, are the opposite faction after big threats are dealed with it

If you yourself, would actually follow the lore you would know that, it's weird asking for another HvsA fights/war..

Im not asking for another expansion about war, because bfa clearly showed they can do that to save their lives, im saying there should not be peace, there should be always, cold war, and skirmishes happening in the world, because that is what makes sense. Dragonflight would be much better imo, if it was like MOP, having sidequests for exploration to grab resources with skirmishes along the way, Honestly those were one of the most fun and engaging quests back in the day

This was one of the pillars of warcraft that they killed, it was made the game different from the others, since people love tribalism and compeition, like football teams, they will try to resurrect later when it start to hurt

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How to bring that up and have her forgive them? I am sorry but that is just not believable and it would make her completely alien, as if she is compelled to care for all life magically and thus HAS to forgive them

I mean, what there is to forgive now? most if not all the ones who did that to her are dead now, its more like " i don't have ill intentions towards your entire race because this clan/people did this to me"

[huth]

That's old-Blizz.
This is nu-Blizz. It's fluffy and caters to a younger demographic that doesn't care about events in prior expansions. Horde, Alliance, are jarringly dismissed without any storied reason.

As opposed to old-Blizz which kept making up nonsensical stories to keep a conflict going that made no sense from the start with how WC3 ended and invariably had it result in unsatisfying non-conclusions.

Letting go of the conflict did not require much effort. It has been a stupid story that had to be kept going artificially for a long time. They should never have hard divided the factions to begin with, that was the biggest mistake.

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How to bring that up and have her forgive them? I am sorry but that is just not believable and it would make her completely alien, as if she is compelled to care for all life magically and thus HAS to forgive them. Which is not the truth or else the other Aspects would not have been corrupted so easy; unless of course she is the apex of the Keepers' experiment with Order infusion which makes her obedient to her cause on such a level that she does not even notice which would probably be amazing if true and then she understood what they did to her and bit Tyr's head off (gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss but this time literally anyone?). But that won't happen either.

There is that questline in Waking Shores that suggests there is at least a little of this at play. The Red Flight's charge is to protect all life, even the Dragonmaw.

[Foolicious]

The description for the fight with the infinite Tyr seems to indicate he does though?

"With the true timeline now altered by Murozond's rise"

He kinda does for a moment while playing through the Dungeon. When we are faced with the decision to go after deios or iridikron we choose the incarnate. When chromie returns us to our timline we find the world ruled by the infinites. Thats where we meet tyr and kill him before returning to the Prior Point in time and choose to kill deios to prevent murozonds rise and restore our Timeline to how it was.

Im still unsure what this means for murozond going forward though. They need to rewrite existing Lore if Killing deios would mean murozond never came to be.

[huth]

He kinda does for a moment while playing through the Dungeon. When we are faced with the decision to go after deios or iridikron we choose the incarnate. When chromie returns us to our timline we find the world ruled by the infinites. Thats where we meet tyr and kill him before returning to the Prior Point in time and choose to kill deios to prevent murozonds rise and restore our Timeline to how it was.

Im still unsure what this means for murozond going forward though. They need to rewrite existing Lore if Killing deios would mean murozond never came to be.

Murozond is an inevitability. This just isn't how it happens.

[Scyth]

I'm just going by 3 things
1. BfA items which consistently provide hints to plotpoints in the future
2. The roles of the incarnates being similar to that of guldan
3. The prediction post that correctly guessed multiple expansion themes

Yes DF has Elemental influence but we aren't fighting elementals, we are fighting Elemental flavored dragons. The incarnates can essentially become even stronger than they currently are just by existing in those realms and currently it seems that iridikron is aiming to power him and his siblings up to a point beyond peak aspects which the planes would help them achieve.

I could see a zone in the elemental planes tbh, assuming Incarnates make it out of DF, similar to how we are most probably going to get Emeral Dream in 10.2.
It's still possible we go there during this xpac though.

Also whilst elemental powered dragons are the main villains in DF, we are still often fighting elemental forces. Idk I still am not convinced we will get an Elemental expansion after this. I'm happy to be pleasantly surprised though and will most certainly enjoy that more than a Pirate-themed xpac lol

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Second "elementaly" themed expansion in a row would be disappointing for me, there's a lot of elemental influence both in some zone areas and quests, enemies in DF.

Hopefully both wont happen, pirate or elemental and we will get something new.

[Varodoc]

Why would anyone want a "Pirate" expansion? That sounds like complete filler, boring and unoriginal idea.

As for the Elementals... people here know that the Elementals were slaves of the Old Gods, Yes? They are not impressive enough to carry their own expansion, but when the Old God inevitably resurfaces, they might take part of the spotlight, as they did in Cataclysm.

[Frood]

Why would anyone want a "Pirate" expansion? That sounds like complete filler, boring and unoriginal idea.

Okay, but what if they were void pirates?

[Varodoc]

Okay, but what if they were void pirates?

They're pirates... We've seen eldritch horrors and literal space gods, who gives a fuck about pirates? This is the same problem people had at the start of BfA, the huge disconnect between fighting man'ari and dreadlords on Argus, only to go back to worthless quillboar in Stormsong Valley.

Besides, BfA Alliance experience was oversaturated with pirates everywhere. Even the main villain for the Alliance, Lady Ashvane, was nicknamed "Pirate Queen" during development. Pirates had a huge presence in Kul Tiras and I'm sure that some of those pirates were corrupted by the Void, as the Void also had a huge presence in Kul Tiras.

Unoriginal idea, it has already been done before.

Jaina being too concerned with pirates to go to Lor'themar's wedding is insufficient set-up for an expansion, especially when compared to other (and better) expansion concepts.

[huth]

Why would anyone want a "Pirate" expansion? That sounds like complete filler, boring and unoriginal idea.

For the same reason you want an Old God expansion.

[Revamp Man]

Second "elementaly" themed expansion in a row would be disappointing for me, there's a lot of elemental influence both in some zone areas and quests, enemies in DF.

Hopefully both wont happen, pirate or elemental and we will get something new.

The elemental influence is in like 3 areas and its mostly just lava

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Why would anyone want a "Pirate" expansion? That sounds like complete filler, boring and unoriginal idea.

As for the Elementals... people here know that the Elementals were slaves of the Old Gods, Yes? They are not impressive enough to carry their own expansion, but when the Old God inevitably resurfaces, they might take part of the spotlight, as they did in Cataclysm.

Elemental forces aren't enough for an expansion because they had a master

Someone tell the devs the current expansion can't happen because the bad guys had masters in the past

[Frood]

They're pirates... We've seen eldritch horrors and literal space gods, who gives a fuck about pirates? This is the same problem people had at the start of BfA, the huge disconnect between fighting man'ari and dreadlords on Argus, only to go back to worthless quillboar in Stormsong Valley.

Besides, BfA Alliance experience was oversaturated with pirates everywhere. Even the main villain for the Alliance, Lady Ashvane, was nicknamed "Pirate Queen" during development. Pirates had a huge presence in Kul Tiras and I'm sure that some of those pirates were corrupted by the Void, as the Void also had a huge presence in Kul Tiras.

Unoriginal idea, it has already been done before.

By that logic, Legion would never have been a thing. We had already fought the Burning Legion and Kil'jaeden once. The elemental lords already had their turn in Cataclysm. Besides, if void elves can be a thing, why can't void pirates? Many eldritch themes have a strong connection to the sea. Not sure the same can be said for blood elves.

We only saw one execution of the pirate theme. We're still missing the tropical, swashbuckling aspect. Throw in some bananas, guild ships and a new old god that eats gold... presto, you've got yourself a classic.

[Nightshade711]

I mean surely we wouldn’t get a “pirate” expansion.
At most pirates would be patch content, not a “big bad” or main focus of an xpac.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Pirates are very low grade theme. I'd rather deal with cosmic stuff then that.

[Frood]

I mean surely we wouldn’t get a “pirate” expansion.
At most pirates would be patch content, not a “big bad” or main focus of an xpac.

So true! I think what people are referring to is more of a sea-themed expansion. Perhaps Azshara would be the main villain, but there could still be room for pirates as a major plot device or overarching theme, like you suggest. Maybe it just ends up being called a 'pirate' expansion, because that's what people typically associate with seafaring in WoW.

[Santandame]

Think the people shitting on the idea of a pirate fleet as major antagonists for a story just lack imagination and are unable to look past the more cartoony aspects of pirates we’ve seen in media before, as opposed to looking at other pirate media out there which is a lot darker.

[huth]

The elemental influence is in like 3 areas and its mostly just lava

So you forgot about Raszageth (Storm/Wind), Iridikron (Earth) and Vyranoth (Ice/Water) already?

[Varodoc]

By that logic, Legion would never have been a thing. We had already fought the Burning Legion and Kil'jaeden once. The elemental lords already had their turn in Cataclysm. Besides, if void elves can be a thing, why can't void pirates? Many eldritch themes have a strong connection to the sea. Not sure the same can be said for blood elves.

We only saw one execution of the pirate theme. We're still missing the tropical, swashbuckling aspect. Throw in some bananas, guild ships and a new old god that eats gold... presto, you've got yourself a classic.

Imagine comparing the Burning Legion, literally the greatest physical threat in Warcraft, to pirates.

The second part of your post is also flawed, pirates are unworthy and undeserving of so much screentime and attention from Blizzard.