The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

We have an in-universe reason that the Titans wrote a book that talks about the "world of Warcraft" in its contents? Do tell me that one.

But no, I'm actually referring to facts in the book contradicted by the information put out immediately after in Antorus that the Titans would be aware of.

This is, of course, ignoring that it was pitched as a lore bible to clarify things before they went back on it.

Calling it "the world of warcraft" just means the Titans see Azeroth as a world where wars are typically forged, which is true.

Also, have you ever taken into account that MAYBE Chronicle Volume 1 had no way of documenting the whole Titan spirit thing? I always liked the theory that the Legion stole the Titan spirits during their assault on Ulduar early 7.0.

Besides, Chronicle does release before Legion, so Blizzard could always add that as an in-universe reason for why it was never talked about.

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This map is way better than any of the DF ones. I like how it connects to the other two zones as well. Wonder if there's a way to get to the Priory on ground, even though the gap doesn't seem to be that large.

It's okay.

[Cheezits]

Sadly I don't expect another Remix after this fiasco. Just the name alone is pretty tainted, even if they fix what people want (easy max-level gearing).

[Ersula]

Sadly I don't expect another Remix after this fiasco. Just the name alone is pretty tainted, even if they fix what people want (easy max-level gearing).

What are you talking about. Remix is easily the most popular version of WoW at the moment. Not to mention its essentially evergreen, auto-pilot content for each expansion once this test screening is finished. I hope they give us another remix immediately since I'd rather level my Earthen in timerunning than timewalking.

[Cheezits]

What are you talking about. Remix is easily the most popular version of WoW at the moment. Not to mention its essentially evergreen, auto-pilot content for each expansion once this test screening is finished. I hope they give us another remix immediately since I'd rather level my Earthen in timerunning than timewalking.

Most popular in a dead filler season is not really good merits for how well it is doing. They absolutely lost the plot with the hardcore fan community- all social media threads of the post saying they don't plan to reduce bronze costs are overwhelmingly negative. Way beyond the point that an experimental mode should be garnering for World of Warcraft in a delicate time period for its growth.

[Kiivar86]

Tainted? Man people are being so dramatic about this whole thing. Yeah they've made some stupid mistakes but you'd think it was utterly ruined.

[Scyth]

Most popular in a dead filler season is not really good merits for how well it is doing. They absolutely lost the plot with the hardcore fan community- all social media threads of the post saying they don't plan to reduce bronze costs are overwhelmingly negative. Way beyond the point that an experimental mode should be garnering for World of Warcraft in a delicate time period for its growth.

Those who are negative tend to be very vocal whilst the people enjoying the event are more than happy to continue playing it without voicing their opinions. Social media is a cesspit so I wouldn't take anyone's opinion on there as serious lol

They obviously should have done more testing before releasing this but at the end of the day I am fairly confident this will end up being a very successful event for them and will most definitely return in the future.

[Vakir]

Wouldn't it make more sense if the Black Empire expac simply took place BEFORE Shadowlands then?

That's the point. They didn't do that and instead discarded N'Zoth extremely fast in favor of another mastermind archetype villain with absolutely no build-up as opposed to one that had since Cataclysm, and the Old Gods themselves before that.

Danuser's justification in 8.3 was that you don't want to show the cosmic horror monster too often, which is true and valid, but they had a means of doing SL without showing the Jailer every 3 seconds, which means it was equally possible with the Black Empire.

The only thing not made redundant by yet another "long con created by a manipulator behind the scenes" is the Sylvanas angle, which is well established as a mess in terms of motivation and really could have been tabled. We already were introduced to and familiar with N'Zoth. There was a lot of build and it was wasted on an anti-climax.

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Calling it "the world of warcraft" just means the Titans see Azeroth as a world where wars are typically forged, which is true.

The sheer fucking cope. IT'S CAPITALIZED. As a proper title of the franchise.

You can't possibly, actually believe this.

Also, have you ever taken into account that MAYBE Chronicle Volume 1 had no way of documenting the whole Titan spirit thing? I always liked the theory that the Legion stole the Titan spirits during their assault on Ulduar early 7.0.

Besides, Chronicle does release before Legion, so Blizzard could always add that as an in-universe reason for why it was never talked about.

Or...follow me on this...it's hackery and they messed up.

I don't know why we need to cram the square block in the circle hole when it's really clear that they're just bad at clarifying and making consistent their setting.

[Joshuaj]

That's the point. They didn't do that and instead discarded N'Zoth extremely fast in favor of another mastermind archetype villain with absolutely no build-up as opposed to one that had since Cataclysm, and the Old Gods themselves before that.

Danuser's justification in 8.3 was that you don't want to show the cosmic horror monster too often, which is true and valid, but they had a means of doing SL without showing the Jailer every 3 seconds, which means it was equally possible with the Black Empire.

The only thing not made redundant by yet another "long con created by a manipulator behind the scenes" is the Sylvanas angle, which is well established as a mess in terms of motivation and really could have been tabled. We already were introduced to and familiar with N'Zoth. There was a lot of build and it was wasted on an anti-climax.

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The sheer fucking cope. IT'S CAPITALIZED. As a proper title of the franchise.

You can't possibly, actually believe this.



Or...follow me on this...it's hackery and they messed up.

I don't know why we need to cram the square block in the circle hole when it's really clear that they're just bad at clarifying and making consistent their setting.

I know it's BS out of universe, I'm namely just trying to find a means of justifying it in-universe however.

Also, wasn't Ion the person that tried to explain why the Black Empire was a patch and not it's own expansion?

[Seasz]

Questing through Cataclysm again and oh boy. The frat bro culture stench was really all over the game back then

A complete polar opposite to how queer and "woke" Dragonflight feels

[Vakir]

Also, wasn't Ion the person that tried to explain why the Black Empire was a patch and not it's own expansion?

I believe it was Danuser on the "you don't wanna show the monster too much" which remains accurate, I think Ion explained it more from a theming POV not being sustainable.

TBC and Wrath being their own expansions torpedoed any future rhetoric about "X isn't diverse enough" for future expacs. The argument when TBC was announced was "what? It's a destroyed world! The datamined Outland is just one zone with lots of mushrooms and ruins!" and they threw that out and made it an extremely varied set of biomes, kind of devaluing the whole "orcs no longer have their own planet" schtick, considering it's still semi-intact many years later into the Sadfang cinematics.

And then Wrath, everyone was like "but it would just be snow and zombie zones!" and then they fleshed out a bunch of other cultures and went more into biomes reflected in other colder climates. The RTS did not 1:1 reflect the broader gameplay, and that is always fine.

Emerald Dream, Black Empire, Argus, they could've easily been their own expansion-wide stories, albeit with Argus I do think it would get a bit fatigued (like Mists -> WoD and orcs).

[Lady Atia]

Actually I find Shadowmeld pretty useful. Well it was more useful in earlier expansions, because now the problem occurs less but...

It is great when you get stuck in combat. It happens less now, but it still happens for me. Then I use Shadowmeld and I'm out of combat. It's actually great when I cannot mount because I'm stuck. And it isn't some raid-OP, so it should be left as it is. Also, it is a thing that was in lore since W3, so that is another argument.

You can literally interrupt M+ boss abilities (like Rezan's nomnom) with it, and also if everyone has it you can use it for easier skip runs without a rogue.

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I believe it was Danuser on the "you don't wanna show the monster too much" which remains accurate, I think Ion explained it more from a theming POV not being sustainable.

TBC and Wrath being their own expansions torpedoed any future rhetoric about "X isn't diverse enough" for future expacs. The argument when TBC was announced was "what? It's a destroyed world! The datamined Outland is just one zone with lots of mushrooms and ruins!" and they threw that out and made it an extremely varied set of biomes, kind of devaluing the whole "orcs no longer have their own planet" schtick, considering it's still semi-intact many years later into the Sadfang cinematics.

And then Wrath, everyone was like "but it would just be snow and zombie zones!" and then they fleshed out a bunch of other cultures and went more into biomes reflected in other colder climates. The RTS did not 1:1 reflect the broader gameplay, and that is always fine.

Emerald Dream, Black Empire, Argus, they could've easily been their own expansion-wide stories, albeit with Argus I do think it would get a bit fatigued (like Mists -> WoD and orcs).

This. Same with Shadowlands - the problem was the content draught and initial shitty covenant system, not the setting per se. They also had to bring Sylvanas back to our side aswell, which made the whole plot a bit weird. I still think the whole expansion would have been beloved if they had set up the Jailer as early as Legion, had Sylvanas as our "Magni" of the Expansion alongside Bolvar (which she would have saved in the cinematic from becoming dominated by Zooval), aswell as quicker raid tiers (maybe even with a smaller Thros tier before the SoD) and the covenant system that we got with Zereth Mortis instead of the "choose between cosmetics and power and you can't mix" shit from the beginning.

[allegrian]

I'd like future remixes to allow old characters in, my main and alts feel trapped outside pandaria remix and I don't really want to create alts of the same class..

[Lady Atia]

I'd like future remixes to allow old characters in, my main and alts feel trapped outside pandaria remix and I don't really want to create alts of the same class..

Slowly scrolls through the list of my 45 lvl 70 characters.

But, why not?

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Bad news on the elite set front via the token - currently the colouration is from the normal gladiator set:



Lets just hope that you can climb good with Battleground Blitz than. Well, atleast I won't feel forced to level tons of characters of the same class at the start of TWW.

[Nymrohd]

Emerald Dream, Black Empire, Argus, they could've easily been their own expansion-wide stories, albeit with Argus I do think it would get a bit fatigued (like Mists -> WoD and orcs).

If Argus was its own expansion, would we really have had too many demons in Legion? Because the intro campaign was not at all demon heavy and neither were Nighthold and Tomb of Sargeras. Broken Shore was I guess. And I did make my post about how much visual variety was possible in an Argus expansion.

I do wonder how you'd do the same for a Black Empire expac. For me I'd want both Black Empire as well as Legion to be expansions that utilize the entire world of Azeroth but I fully realize something like that would not be popular.

[micwini]

It's not massively useful. But I am sure that most players have had at least one time where they wanted to use their Hearthstone, but couldnt.

It's not like racials are meant to be game defining like they tend to be in other RPGs. They are mostly there for flavor.

I mean yeah, but humans went in 10 years from PvP trinket as racial and 10% more rep to remove 1 stun and this HS bullshit. Meanwhile, horde racials have been untouched except for the blood elf aoe silence (which turned into aoe offensive magic dispell, still insanely useful).
why would anyone pick gnome over nightelf/dwarf I wouldn't say. Especially now that almost every race can be every class and the most powerful races are the only ones that can pick the classes that are still locked (druid, pala, shaman).
They're messing up more than fixing.

[Nymrohd]

For the Diplomacy replacement I just think that having a Profession racial that improves all professions like +Resourcefulness is just the most obvious choice for Humans who very much are the jack of all trades of WoW. Does another race already have that?

[micwini]

This.
It's an RPG.

Unless you're playing at the extreme top level of play, the advantages don't matter, and said advantages are also fun to take advantage of when you do.

Screw races being actually unique and fun though because some dude's mad you can cheese a mechanic in some esports mode in a roleplaying game.

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Shadowmeld is meta in PvP and PvE.
Entroipic Embrace is solid in both and Spacial Rift is solid in PvP and lack of pushback on spells is extremely good in PvP.
Stoneform is meta in PvE and great in PvP.
Human racial is still meta in PvP.

But go off, I guess.
Alliance is fine now.

With the same reasoning they shouldnt have changed the racial. By this principe: Who cares if humans gain 10% more renown?

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For the Diplomacy replacement I just think that having a Profession racial that improves all professions like +Resourcefulness is just the most obvious choice for Humans who very much are the jack of all trades of WoW. Does another race already have that?

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=291442/jack-of-all-trades

Kul Tirans exist. Literally named "Jack of all trades"

[Xilurm]

Questing through Cataclysm again and oh boy. The frat bro culture stench was really all over the game back then

A complete polar opposite to how queer and "woke" Dragonflight feels

Imagine if social media wasn't a thing. Nobody would be seeing things other people want us to see. Wild.

[Nymrohd]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=291442/jack-of-all-trades

Kul Tirans exist. Literally named "Jack of all trades"

Hehe yeah it was way too obvious for them to not have already picked it. But I am saying just give Resourcefulness which is useful for all crafting skills. Or alternatively give something that works with the new Inspiration mechanic. The changes to the profession system absolutely have made it easy to create profession racials.

And yeah personally I don't think Diplomacy is more broken now that you have Warbands than it was already. Just keep it around.

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Imagine if social media wasn't a thing. Nobody would be seeing things other people want us to see. Wild.

Or you can just opt out of it?

[Makabreska]

Sadly I don't expect another Remix after this fiasco. Just the name alone is pretty tainted, even if they fix what people want (easy max-level gearing).

"M+ changes were terribly received, Blizz will defo revert it."

"Blizz allows Twitter to write it's story"

"Remix is a fiasco, they wont try again"

Dude, what is wrong with you lately? You trying to push a narrative?