1. #72541
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    Something being wrong with SL's writing? Say it isn't so.

    Find me a third person omniscient account calling Illidan an ancient evil that isn't the discredited RPG alignments that predate anything. You could make an argument that he is that in TBC, but it's pretty universally agreed that the characterization of the Illidari trio was dogshit in that hence the walk back. But nothing independent.

    He's introduced that way from the outside perspective of the Wardens and the like, but it's absolutely valid for them to feel that way.

    You also conveniently ignored everything else. Preds isn't actually making a valid argument and you know that - he's trying to invoke more nuance than there actually is because he thinks the Jailer is cool.
    Quit talking like you're an Old God dude. Ersula is fully capable of speaking their mind on things. You trying to ignore my points for some weird asf assumption doesn't help anyone.

  2. #72542
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    It wouldn’t matter to the plan, but she also wouldn’t believe in said plan if every thing the jailer told her was an obvious lie.

    She was already sceptical when he made his pitch if it was obvious he was bullshitting her she never would have joined.
    You're talking like she could just waltz up to Zereth Mortis during Wotlk & fact check everything he said when he's spilling prophecies like "The Legion will invade & A new Titan will die"

  3. #72543
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Christ, this is wretched.
    Not gonna try and read it for a while, what’s wrong with it? Did the gobbos start putting ethics before money or something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    You're talking like she could just waltz up to Zereth Mortis during Wotlk & fact check everything he said when he's spilling prophecies like "The Legion will invade & A new Titan will die"
    She wouldn’t need to go any where to fact check him she was both already on the maw and could see the lack of forsaken and just thinking about it for the second would point out the contradiction of “family’s don’t get to be together” and “you go to hell because your leader did”.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  4. #72544
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuaj View Post
    Quit talking like you're an Old God dude. Ersula is fully capable of speaking their mind on things. You trying to ignore my points for some weird asf assumption doesn't help anyone.
    I'm not really sure what you mean. "Like an Old God?"

    Let them respond to their own addressed points and respond to yours. Nothing was ignored.

    If they're capable of speaking their mind on things, maybe let them do it rather than play defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    Like who, or what ?
    "Who" is, by definition, biased. I can't think of a character meant to be all knowing with zero influenced perspective.

    As far as "what:"

    https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com...review-the-maw

    To be cast into the Maw is to be doomed to a bleak eternity. In this tumultuous, hopeless land, the vilest souls in the cosmos are imprisoned and tormented forever. Should the ancient evil chained here break free, all of reality will be consumed.
    Written by Blizzard Entertainment. Not Bolvar, not the Arbiter, not fucking Algalon or something.

    The original also out of universe press release calls him "vile" but that's up to you.

    It's pretty clear. The Jailer is framed as having at least some fulfillment out of his actions. If he was some impartial beyond morality figure, the aesthetic on anima farming and servitude would be more clinical or similar to Oribos or Zereth workers.

    Not depersonalization and torture devices. Good Lord, the basic aesthetic illiteracy.
    Last edited by Vakir; 2024-06-03 at 05:58 PM.

  5. #72545
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Not gonna try and read it for a while, what’s wrong with it? Did the gobbos start putting ethics before money or something?
    It's basically a story-length version of that one Goblin unionization quest in BFA.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  6. #72546
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Not gonna try and read it for a while, what’s wrong with it? Did the gobbos start putting ethics before money or something?
    That's basically what happens.

    Whole story is Gaz convincing Noggenfogger that workers rights are good actually.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  7. #72547
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Christ, this is wretched.
    I want my time back.

    Also, how does this even matter? Are we going to Undermine to tell goblins to stop polluting?
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2024-06-03 at 05:59 PM.

  8. #72548
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    It's basically a story-length version of that one Goblin unionization quest in BFA.
    Ah goblin unions, how boring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raetary View Post
    That's basically what happens.

    Whole story is Gaz convincing Noggenfogger that workers rights are good actually.
    And so dies goblins being interesting then.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  9. #72549
    Quote Originally Posted by Raetary View Post
    That's basically what happens.

    Whole story is Gaz convincing Noggenfogger that workers rights are good actually.
    And gazlowe simping over thrall. But yeah really nothing noteworthy. Noggenfogger apparently knows what happened to gallywix which is maybe the most interesting part of the story from a lore perspective.

  10. #72550
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Ah goblin unions, how boring.

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    And so dies goblins being interesting then.
    I'm not sure how being a 2D caricature is interesting. Can you explain this?

  11. #72551
    Looks like the devs can't stop pushing their agenda and beliefs into the game.

  12. #72552
    "Let's make the naivety of ethical consumption under capitalism not only canon to the story but a major decision in gutting an entire culture."

    Zzzzz... It's almost like you can have a non-mustache twirling version of that like for example the Ferengi without making them just a costume of cobbled technology without a personality.

  13. #72553
    Quote Originally Posted by Reive View Post
    Looks like the devs can't stop pushing their agenda and beliefs into the game.
    "Cutting corners and getting your workers killed to make a bit of short term profit is bad" being "an agenda" or "belief" is... certainly a take.

  14. #72554
    At this point you have to root for the villains because the "good" guys in wow make everything lame lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    "Cutting corners and getting your workers killed to make a bit of short term profit is bad" being "an agenda" or "belief" is... certainly a take.
    It's a game, no one is getting killed.

  15. #72555

  16. #72556
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    Not depersonalization and torture devices. Good Lord, the basic aesthetic illiteracy.
    The point of this topic is why does the artistry frame some characters as villains while other characters with the same motives as good.

    I'm regretting posing the topic because the only two answers are a toss up between the writers being incompetent or philosophically bankrupt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kereberus View Post
    Hey this is better than the high res photorealistic cinematics they should just do these instead.

  17. #72557
    Quote Originally Posted by Reive View Post
    It's a game, no one is getting killed.
    Weird deflection.

  18. #72558
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    And so dies goblins being interesting then.
    I don't think there is anything wrong with the goblins becoming more effective. We don't really interact with goblin society but it obviously looks bad. I mean do you really want to go to Undermine if its going to look like Crapopolis? I don't know, I don't find architecture defined by refuse collection as interesting.
    But I also would not write a story about changing that and only about that. I'd write a story about goblins being involved in lore in an impactful manner and have this also happen in the background but when this is the entire point of the story, it feels like you just asked a high school student to write about sustainable practices in fiction format.

  19. #72559
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverLion View Post
    I'm not sure how being a 2D caricature is interesting. Can you explain this?
    *wave hand at every goblin ingame*

    Exploring your way to the top in the starting area, unsafe working conditions leading to comical events, goblins finding all kinds of interesting things due to work with no regard for there own lives, making deals with elementals only to back stab them making enemies.

    The goblins being the worse kind of capitalist leads to all kind of great stuff.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  20. #72560
    Quote Originally Posted by Reive View Post
    It's a game, no one is getting killed.
    Really? Cause people are getting killed by the Venture Co.'s industrial practices since vanilla.

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