The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Varodoc]

Yeah, actions which were the ultimate result of a Cosmic Conspiracy that Zovaal and Denathrius orchestrated. So, you CAN argue that the stuff with the Legion was actually only there to indirectly aid Zovaal's plans, even if Sargeras never knew? Heh...it's funny how irony kicks in, especially when you consider Sargeras was once considered the ultimate "foe", but is now just some toddler throwing a temper tantrum cause he is afraid of the Dark.

I know that Danuser decided that his OC would be at the head of a multi-millennia-long Cosmic conspiracy. I don't deny that Sargeras was, in a way, a pawn of the Jailer. Mal'ganis literally refers to the Legion as a pawn in SL.

The point is that Sargeras has certainly caused more damage to the physical universe than the Jailer. The Jailer has the POTENTIAL to reshape the entire Cosmos, but he failed. Sargeras might have failed in his invasion of Azeroth but he still caused the destruction of countless other world. The Jailer, afaik, has never caused the destruction of a world.

Even though you clearly think that Sargeras was just an inferior pawn of the Jailer, surely you must recognize that Sargeras caused more destruction to the mortals of the Cosmos than the Jailer. At the very least, you should acknowledge that Sargeras did 99% of the dirty work, while the Jailer was afk in the Maw/non-existent in the lore.

[TheRealDavidTwo]

My personal theory/wish for 11.0 is a scenario I call "Homecoming." This is their big 20th anniversary, 10th expansion, 30th of Warcraft in general. We return to the original continents redesigned as max level content. The actual world may be a bit "smaller" but it's bigger zones. Think Durotar, Barrens, Dustwallow, Thousand Needles, and Tanaris as one big zone. It's set a bit after Dragonflight.

In the lead up to this, things have gone... wrong in Stormwind. Turalyon has become increasingly strict and focused on the Light. No one knows why until one day Yrel's Army of the Light and her Divine Mother arrive. This alternate Xe'ra is aware of what the mortals of Azeroth did in helping Illidan avoid his destiny and she seeks to convert everyone to prevent such blatant disregard happen again.

Turalyon's zealotry reinforced by this sets an ultimatum. Become Lightforged or leave. King Greymane leaves and retakes Gilneas as a place of refuge for all humans who do not wish to be remade. The dwarves close off Blackrock Mountain and Jaina breaks off trade relations with Stormwind. During all of this Azshara returns. She offers aid against this alien invasion and promises an army of Naga to both the Horde and the Alliance.

Both the Horde and the Alliance have faced setbacks from the Army of the Light's invasion. On Kalimdor, Exarch Garrosh appeared and begins to preach to the Orcs and he gains followers despite warnings from the Mag'har. Because of this, they are forced to accept Azshara's aid because they are being pushed back to Orgrimmar and have already lost Stormwind. Everyone knows this aid is coming at a unknown cost, but they are desperate.

With the Naga's help the forces of Azeroth push back and in a climatic battle above Stormwind, a wounded Xe'ra begins to turn into a void Naaru. This is when the betrayal happens. Azshara, having learned from Locus Walker, absorbs the power of the Dark Prime Naaru and becomes massively empowered. The resulting explosion destroys Stormwind and she leaves.

In the aftermath, her Naga are abandoned. Some want to search for her, others have come to appreciate the time they've spent with the other people of Azeroth and finally feel their Queen has gone too far. After all this the story proceeds into the void side of the story as we see the plans set in motion by Azshara, Xal'atath, and Locus Walker take shape.

The key feature of this starting point of course is playable Naga. They'd behave much like Dracthyr do without the ability to fly while in their Naga form. They'll be taught illusion magic by Azshara but it won't be as perfected as hers. Their humanoid illusions will be Night Elves but with fin ears, webbed fingers, and scales. Classes could be all but Paladin, Druid, DK, and Evoker. Give them some special "abilities" and animations for classes that use feet like monk.

Levelling could be faction specific with Horde dealing with southern Kalimdor and the Alliance with the regions of Stormwind and Khaz Modan. There's plenty of breadcrumbs for dungeons. A Botani empowered Wailing Caverns, a new Black Rock Spire with the rogue Dark Irons trying to rebirth Ragnaros. Patch stories could give us updates on Lordaeron and Northern Kalimdor.

Of course Dragonriding is enabled and using their new zoning technology, travel between the two continents is achieved by us flying through giant Kirin Tor portals at multiple points along the coasts.

A lot of these ideas are probably too ambitious, but I really hope for 11.0 we return to the original continents to finally see their story progress. It's been a long time since Cataclysm. The existence of multiple Dalarans show they are fine with the same place existing twice and with Chromie time they don't need to delete the Cata zones. In 12.0 the 11.0 story can become the new levelling story replacing BfA.

TLDR: Old World revamp, playable Naga, Light vs Void.

This is an awesome idea. Good stuff

[Houle]

Heh...it's funny how irony kicks in, especially when you consider Sargeras was once considered the ultimate "foe", but is now just some toddler throwing a temper tantrum cause he is afraid of the Dark.

And Zovaal was presented as the ultimate foe for pretty much one xpac, until it was revealed at the end that he was just a grey guy who was afraid of something else.

Also, Sargeras came * this * close to completely stomping all over Zovaals "plan" (which really was purely based on luck). Zovaal needed Argus to die to knock the Arbiter out, and he needed Azeroths world soul as a battery. If Argus (or anyone before him) killed us, Zovaals entire plan wouldnt have worked. If Sargeras corrupted Azeroth (which he was in the process of doing during the raid), Zovaals plan wouldnt have worked. If Sargeras actually KILLED Azeroth with his last-ditch sword stab, Zovaals plan wouldnt have worked.
It was pretty much pure luck that everything worke dout for Zovaal the way it did.

[Revamp Man]

So you forgot about Raszageth (Storm/Wind), Iridikron (Earth) and Vyranoth (Ice/Water) already?

The zone influence
How much elemental influence do you run into in the zones themselves

[Varodoc]

You say luck, I say Zovaal was playing his cards well with the possibilities and whatnot. Regardless, the fact remains in that Sargeras didn't stomp on Zovaal's plans, and the events of the Shadowlands happened the way they did anyway.

Huh, No, it was pure luck.

He was also lucky as far as the Old Gods are concerned. He was lucky that the heroes travelled back in time to get the Dragon Soul to destroy Deathwing and prevent the Hour of Twilight; he was lucky that the Heart of Azerite, Magni, and MOTHER snapped the heroes out of N'Zoth's mind-control at the last second. If N'Zoth won, Ny'alotha would have been merged with the Chamber of the Heart (the process had already begun in the final phase of the fight as stated in Encounter journal) and the World-Soul would have fallen to the Void.

The Jailer couldn't possibly have known for certain that the heroes would defeat Deathwing, Sargeras, and N'Zoth, it was obviously a gamble. Drop the bias, he's not that smart.

The Jailer was very lucky, he was even lucky that Sylvanas is an idiot who doesn't understand anything. His luck happened to run out in Zereth Mortis.

[Polybius]

That's old-Blizz.
This is nu-Blizz. It's fluffy and caters to a younger demographic that doesn't care about events in prior expansions. Horde, Alliance, are jarringly dismissed without any storied reason. But don't I look kewl in my gear...

11.0, like DF, isn't likely to produce anything that will provoke much thought. It certainly won't resemble much in the way of a coherent story. But I'm sure it'll give some players a chance to show off how well they look in their new fitted armor. ("Is that selfie-camera working?")

Weird take considering HvA never made sense lorewise and mechanically we should’ve had multiple factions for consistency. Despite this they protested against cross faction but sure as hell doubled down on merging factions into two for “player mechanic” reasons.

Blizzard was never known for being consistent, and last year’s scandal only proves how their pigheadedness has held back their game for over a decade, both technical and storywise. Player agency will always be a good thing. There’s plenty of single player games out there if you want to be locked into a premade character.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Also, this should be the NEWS for Blizzard fan sites this week. Have it share time with D4 release.

It's been a bit since this was brought up. I initially didn't bother saying the same on account of how recently it happened,—I figured that the news may not have circulated enough and they may have not had any time or the proper incentives to write on it,—but by now you would expect any number of fan sites to draw attention to this occurrence. It's certainly peculiar how neither Wowhead nor MMO-Champion have bothered to mention this at all.

[Polybius]

The Jailer can very much play with the possibility stuff, especially if we're going to assume he's got guys that can help out with said stuff and whatnot.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, obviously the true answer is luck, but the LORE answer is likely that Zovaal played with the eventualities and whatnot to further his goals, and knew the waiting game would work in his favor.

I really wish they had played more into that. Considering he had the ‘loom’ to control fates, among other domination magics, his power was that of probability and predestination. Instead we got bad one-liners.

Add to that he was ‘created.’ A Death construct, or singularity acting as Arbiter. Unfortunately one powered by ChatGPT.

[huth]

The zone influence
How much elemental influence do you run into in the zones themselves

Waking Shores has Fire, Plains prominently feature Wind and the entire eastern half of Azure Span is frozen over. Zaralek is a cave, has lava and is home to the old laboratory of the Earthbinder.

- - - Updated - - -

I really wish they had played more into that. Considering he had the ‘loom’ to control fates, among other domination magics, his power was that of probability and predestination. Instead we got bad one-liners.

Add to that he was ‘created.’ A Death construct, or singularity acting as Arbiter. Unfortunately one powered by ChatGPT.

Well, we defeat him something like 10 seconds away from wiping out the entire cosmos. Or not, if your damage isn't up to par.

[Nymrohd]

At this point, the Burning Legion is a non-threat. Lacking Sargeras leadership, it is guaranteed to have descended into infighting and accomplishing pretty much nothing.

Pirates might not be threatening to wipe out the universe, but they'd be a much more immediate and relevant threat than the Legion.

Denathrius could take over the Legion tbh. His Nathrezim were a core part of the command structure.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Denathrius could take over the Legion tbh. His Nathrezim were a core part of the command structure.

That is what I have been suggesting for awhile. It would continue Denathrius's story and he can get a new look and get revenge on Azeroth for interfering with him and...a "Return of the Legion" kinda vibe. Not that they'd do that though.

[huth]

Denathrius could take over the Legion tbh. His Nathrezim were a core part of the command structure.

Maybe. I think he lacks the raw power needed to make the Demons respect him, though. He'd probably have better luck with the Void.

Of course, he could also start up a band of space pirates.

[Khaza-R]

I see Denathrius and Azshara both as potentially serving a yet unseen theoretical 7th force.

For Denathrius it makes sense because this Nathrezim have been able to infiltrate the ranks of more than just one cosmic force.

For Azshara its within character. She sees herself as the equal as whoever if the most powerful at the time. She went from Queen to Empress. So what's the next step for her? A bonafide goddess?

[Telogrus]

Would you guys prefer that Blizz add a new row of talents to the talent tree in the next xpac, or that Blizz just gives us 10 extra points to our current trees (with obviously there being some tweaks/reworks to existing talents, with maybe a talent or two added to some specs to add more balance/variety ofc)?

I’d prefer the latter.

[Nymrohd]

Would you guys prefer that Blizz add a new row of talents to the talent tree in the next xpac, or that Blizz just gives us 10 extra points to our current trees (with obviously there being some tweaks/reworks to existing talents, with maybe a talent or two added to some specs to add more balance/variety ofc)?

I’d prefer the latter.

Add an extra row

[Abraxan]

Huh, No, it was pure luck.

He was also lucky as far as the Old Gods are concerned. He was lucky that the heroes travelled back in time to get the Dragon Soul to destroy Deathwing and prevent the Hour of Twilight; he was lucky that the Heart of Azerite, Magni, and MOTHER snapped the heroes out of N'Zoth's mind-control at the last second. If N'Zoth won, Ny'alotha would have been merged with the Chamber of the Heart (the process had already begun in the final phase of the fight as stated in Encounter journal) and the World-Soul would have fallen to the Void.

The Jailer couldn't possibly have known for certain that the heroes would defeat Deathwing, Sargeras, and N'Zoth, it was obviously a gamble. Drop the bias, he's not that smart.

The Jailer was very lucky, he was even lucky that Sylvanas is an idiot who doesn't understand anything. His luck happened to run out in Zereth Mortis.

Related to your point, another frustrating thing about the jailer, aside from everything else.. his characterization could have been adjusted slightly and greatly improved the story (imo).

I have no idea why they tried to make him a "master planner" who arranged a perfect -nearly impossible to believe- sequence of events. Planning meticulous sequences of events seems more in-line with the void or the light, which both care a great deal about shaping the flow of events.

Death doesn't have to plan for anything to achieve its goal, all death has to do is wait. We all die someday.

Cut the convoluted story beats and retconning. Make the jailer a very simple villain: He has waited and grown more powerful over the decades that we have been funneling mortal souls into the SL with our seemingly bottomless appetite for war. Now he's able to pierce the veil and directly attack Azeroth, to do whatever it was he wanted to do with the world soul.

[Abraxan]

Zovaal did wait, he was waiting the whole time. He just had agents bring about a conspiracy so he could further set out his influence. He was waiting the whole time beyond that, however.

As for the Anima stuff, idk if you realize this, but only the worst of the worst souls go the Maw, and if it wasn't bad enough, Azeroth is just 1 planet in the infinite beyond. The amount of Anima that would go to Zovaal would be akin to 1/100ths a droplet of water for the Banished One.

So no, that alternative wouldn't have helped...at all.

Nah I still disagree. He did wait, but he waited for his carefully orchested plan to bear fruit. The emphasis in the game is on how many pieces he put into place, how many events he was behind.

I think blizzard probably did consider his patience as a key part of his character, like you said - he does wait. But the convoluted plans don't work at all with this characterization.

And the "azeroth is one planet" stuff is whatever. The jailer already said souls from azeroth have the most "will", or whatever the exact quote is. It's clear azeroth is special.

Edit - my point being that he doesn't even have to make these grandiose plans, regardless of how long he waits for them to pan out. That doesn't fit the characterization of death. It fits the void/light/order.

[Eeram]

i hate coming in here now i never see anything patch related anymore lol its always the same people talking about lore an random shit unrelated to the patch feels bad zzzz

[Xi Jinping]

pirates and elements theme? no way. Its cosmic next time babe

[Abraxan]

i hate coming in here now i never see anything patch related anymore lol its always the same people talking about lore an random shit unrelated to the patch feels bad zzzz

Here's my speculation for 10.2:

primalists want to 'unleash' the emerald dream to overwrite our ordered reality. I think the new zone will be the tree area west of ohnaran planes, after the primalists there successfully bring the dream into/over reality. Or we just go into the dream to stop the primalists there