The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Abraxan]

Did the Jailer say that? I know Azeroth is a world where a lot of things have happened, hence why Anima supplements there are so high, but that's not enough for him to be amped up. Besides, other worlds likely went through a bit also.

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And the plans can work with it. Just means Zovaal wanted to establish a clear foundation so that, once he starts taking action, his goals will be easier to reach overall.

I think in the sylvanas book, based on the wowpedia page. I didn't read sylvanas, so not sure if what wowpedia says is totally accurate:

He also noticed that out of all the souls he judged, those who came from the world of Azeroth had the greatest potential and strongest wills.[24]

[Xi Jinping]

I'm surprised people speculate over SL story. It's clearly boring and unrelated

[Raetary]

Here's my speculation for 10.2:

primalists want to 'unleash' the emerald dream to overwrite our ordered reality. I think the new zone will be the tree area west of ohnaran planes, after the primalists there successfully bring the dream into/over reality. Or we just go into the dream to stop the primalists there

The dream, and the new tree, manifesting on Azeroth is an outcome that we literally helped work towards, and want to happen, and know will happen as per Merithras abd Alex' vision.

The primalists are the ones that want to invade and destroy it, as they literally did the first time round in the green dragon related quests.
Iridikron wanting to manifest the dream is also quite contradictory when its a titan-made (at least partially) construct that is anti-thetical to their goal of turning Azeroth back into the primal elemental landscape that it once was and could become again, as we saw in the primalist timeline we visited.

[Abraxan]

The dream, and the new tree, manifesting on Azeroth is an outcome that we literally helped work towards, and want to happen, and know will happen as per Merithras abd Alex' vision.

The primalists are the ones that want to invade and destroy it, as they literally did the first time round in the green dragon related quests.
Iridikron wanting to manifest the dream is also quite contradictory when its a titan-made (at least partially) construct that is anti-thetical to their goal of turning Azeroth back into the primal elemental landscape that it once was and could become again, as we saw in the primalist timeline we visited.

Oh yeah the titans used it as a blueprint/testing ground or right? Not sure why I forgot that. I had been thinking it was like azeroth pre-titan influence.

Also, I was unclear whether we (night elves) want the tree to come out of the dream, or whether we want the tree to remain in the dream to become their new home.

[Varodoc]

Related to your point, another frustrating thing about the jailer, aside from everything else.. his characterization could have been adjusted slightly and greatly improved the story (imo).

I have no idea why they tried to make him a "master planner" who arranged a perfect -nearly impossible to believe- sequence of events. Planning meticulous sequences of events seems more in-line with the void or the light, which both care a great deal about shaping the flow of events.

Death doesn't have to plan for anything to achieve its goal, all death has to do is wait. We all die someday.

Cut the convoluted story beats and retconning. Make the jailer a very simple villain: He has waited and grown more powerful over the decades that we have been funneling mortal souls into the SL with our seemingly bottomless appetite for war. Now he's able to pierce the veil and directly attack Azeroth, to do whatever it was he wanted to do with the world soul.

The villains in this expansion are much better-written, even if they might be less "ambitious" conceptually. There are no grand 5000 IQ masterplans, no complex "i just wanted to save you!!!" motives; just a bunch of crazy dragons who want to destroy everything. This is much simpler storytelling, but also much more understandable and effective.

It also helps that the Primate Incarnates are way more unique and original in terms of design and personality than the Jailer.

The Jailer looks so generic that people literally mistook him for some random NPC when his model was datamined. He certainly looked much more mysterious and menacing in the concept arts and Teaser, when he looked more like Aman'thul: a regal and elegant being who is truly ancient and patient. Not this bald nipple man who looks like a random mob.

The Primal Incarnates look so much more unique than the Jailer, truly they are a great improvement in terms of design. They might not have a 5000 IQ "omgg i just wanted to save you from what is to come!!!" masterplan, but they look badass and that's all that matters.

And we see that the Primal Incarnates are objectively better-received by the Community than the Jailer.

Cut the convoluted story beats and retconning. Make the jailer a very simple villain: He has waited and grown more powerful over the decades that we have been funneling mortal souls into the SL with our seemingly bottomless appetite for war. Now he's able to pierce the veil and directly attack Azeroth, to do whatever it was he wanted to do with the world soul.

They should have scrapped this horrible villain and made Denathrius the main villain of Shadowlands. Denathrius is ambitious and wants ultimate power, he would have started the anima crisis in order to become the most powerful Eternal One at the expense of the other realms. Denathrius is a simple villain; like Azshara, he's not some misguided "omgg i just wanted to save you all" villain, he just wants pure power.

Blizzard knows that Denathrius is much more popular and beloved than the Jailer. That's why the Jailer is destroyed, while Denathrius is freed by his underlings. Denathrius could possibly take over the remnants of the Legion through his Nathrezim. Denathrius is ambitious; like Azshara, he seeks ultimate power, he doesn't care about anything else. He will return, but the Jailer will never.

[Abraxan]

The Tree is basically staying in the Dream rn to mature, so that once it's ready, it can come back to Azeroth as a fully grown World Tree! One that is blessed by both the Winter Queen and Elune!

And yeah, the Dream was utilized by beings of Order, namely Freya using G'hanir, to attune Azeroth with it, and create many types of Azerothian Blueprints for experimentation and whatnot.

Alright then ignore my other post.. Makes sense the primalists would want to destroy it as another example of titan meddling then.

Do we know what happens definitively in dawn of the infinite? I haven't watched the full dungeon playthrough yet and haven't seen any big posts about it.

I'm still thinking avaloren will be a full blown expansion and not patch zone, and I think probably just one more major patch 10.3 next year.

[Varodoc]

Making Denathrius the Villain would suck, especially when you consider the fact he was supposed to be a one-off villain lol

An irrelevant point to bring up, the Primal Incarnates are the main villains of DF and yet they are also "one-off" villains. They will never appear again after this expansion. Raszageth is already destroyed and the other 3 are doomed as they oppose the players. The next expansion will be about concepts that don't have anything to do with Primal Incarnates, such as Light vs. Void or Avaloren.

Why is it bad to have a self-contained story? We don't need every villain to be the centre-piece of some conspiracy spanning across different expansions... having one-off villains like the Primal Incarnates is good writing.

Besides, Denathrius will obviously return in the future and it wouldn't even surprise Me if it will happen in 11.0. In addition to this, Denathrius' minions, the Nathrezim, have allegedly infiltrated every Cosmic field; so, even if 11.0 has to do with the Light or the Void (concepts that typically wouldn't be associated to Denathrius), he can still return, along with his Nathrezim puppets.

And I will tell you more, there is even the possibility that Denathrius will return in Dragonflight, if they make patch about Emerald Dream. Because there is someone in the realm of Life who is treacherous (source of this is Il'gynoth's whispers, which have typically been reliable in many ways), and we know that the Nathrezim sent infiltrator to the realm of Life, so we could see Denathrius' infiltrator/Denathrius himself (a cameo) in Emerald Dream patch.

[Telogrus]

I wonder if the reason why the Green DF area is called the "Shady Sanctuary" is because it will soon become very shady with the new World Tree's branches hanging over it

[Hugnomo]

i hate coming in here now i never see anything patch related anymore lol its always the same people talking about lore an random shit unrelated to the patch feels bad zzzz

Sometimes there's nothing new to discuss. This is speculation for future patches/expansion. Lore/gameplay all fits under that as far as I can tell.
It's not people's fault if you come here looking for a topic that's been discussed dozens of pages back. Are people supposed to keep repeating the same thing, or staying silent for your convenience? Like, I don't get it. It's annoying to see people police whatever topic of speculation that some are passionate to discuss, there's mods for that.

On topic, I hope that, considering it seems almost certain 10.2 will be emerald dream related, we will see Vol'jin back in the story, as a loa, with a new model and some story development. Also, if decay is explored in any meaningful way, which makes sense to me as a contrasting yet related theme to life and the emerald dream, I wish the Forsaken had some role in that, further developing their understanding of decay/undeath and how that may shape their ethos as a society and culture.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Sometimes there's nothing new to discuss. This is speculation for future patches/expansion. Lore/gameplay all fits under that as far as I can tell.
It's not people's fault if you come here looking for a topic that's been discussed dozens of pages back. Are people supposed to keep repeating the same thing, or staying silent for your convenience?

I do feel as though one contributing factor is that the topics of discussion are not particularly interesting, nor are they particularly disposed to incite passion. I, as such, shall start a conversation which experience confirms will give us many, many pages of discussion for days to come: let's talk about Sylvanas.

[Telogrus]

I wonder if choosing to go after Deios instead of Iridikron will result in Iridikron becoming too powerful and we have to go back in time again in 10.3 to stop Iridikron from siphoning Galakrond's power, knowing that Murozond will be born as a result

[Telogrus]

I really am starting to think that we will get a 2 boss mini-raid in 10.1.7 where we finish off the last Elder, Igira, and Fyrakk. Season 2 is suposed to be the Black DF's time to shine in DF, so it would make sense that we cap off Season 2 by helping Ebyssian, Sabellian, and Wrathion beat Fyrakk in a mini-raid. The only issue I'd have with it is that the mini raid would only be relevant for 6-8 weeks.

[ChairmanKaga]

And yes, they don't care about the op and topic of the thread. All they want is to discuss old expansions.
Varodoc was banned for a while, and as soon as he came back, he did it again. No respect.

Glad I am not the only one sick of this.

[Nightshade711]

They regularly updated irrelevant old models in previous expansions like in SL 9.1 where they made new models for old world boars.

They've been doing this for several expansions, do you think a revamp is planned? I don't see why they would do that otherwise.

Yeah there’s also a lot of buildings and other scenery assets that’ve been updated behind the scenes too that we still haven’t seen I think.

Definitely think there’s gotta be a world revamp.

[guro-tchai]

Quel'thalas and Amani mountains. the Chronicles artwork of Silvermoon is gorgeous, but the in-game version doesn't compare. there is a plot to be finished there - a people divided due to the Void, which might be featured fairly soon.

[Houle]

You say luck, I say Zovaal was playing his cards well with the possibilities and whatnot. Regardless, the fact remains in that Sargeras didn't stomp on Zovaal's plans, and the events of the Shadowlands happened the way they did anyway.

So, betting everything on the microscopically small chance that some mortals defy all odds and that everything turns out EXACTLY how he needed it to be, with no chance of influencing the outcome himself, is "playing his cards well" in your opinion? Lol. The actual word for that is "gambling". Zovaal basically won the lottery in Legion. Nothing more, nothing less.
And regardless, much like Sargeras, he got stopped. With the small difference that Zovaal got shanked, while Sargeras is still very much alive.

[huth]

So, betting everything on the microscopically small chance that some mortals defy all odds and that everything turns out EXACTLY how he needed it to be, with no chance of influencing the outcome himself, is "playing his cards well" in your opinion? Lol. The actual word for that is "gambling". Zovaal basically won the lottery in Legion. Nothing more, nothing less.
And regardless, much like Sargeras, he got stopped. With the small difference that Zovaal got shanked, while Sargeras is still very much alive.

I think it's less that he was playing well, and more that he just kept playing again and again. What we saw was just the one plan that worked, not the hundreds of failures preceding it.

He had no shortage of time, after all.

[Hitei]

So, betting everything on the microscopically small chance that some mortals defy all odds and that everything turns out EXACTLY how he needed it to be, with no chance of influencing the outcome himself, is "playing his cards well" in your opinion? Lol. The actual word for that is "gambling". Zovaal basically won the lottery in Legion. Nothing more, nothing less.
And regardless, much like Sargeras, he got stopped. With the small difference that Zovaal got shanked, while Sargeras is still very much alive.

That is not what he did. As Huth said, Zovaal's stratagem wasn't some very specific thousand stepped plan that needed to work out perfectly. He just kept doing all sorts of things and kept very close watch on everything around so that when something useful popped up he could snatch it and make use of it.

He didn't plan his entire strategy around Argus and us beating Argus. Argus was there and a dangerous "soul" so he had the Nathrezim plant a trap in it so that if Argus got defeated, or was eventually killed by Sargeras after he was done with him (to prevent the Void taking him) or just finally ran out of strength, it would be a weapon that could harm Oribos.

His plan wasn't to make the scourge and LK so that he could get to Sylvanas so that he could get to Anduin so that he could steal the Sigils. He had the Dreadlords convince the Legion to use the LK and Scourge so that he could spread his influence in the mortal realm. The LK was rather useless to him, but when Arthas was killed, Sylvanas happened to show up so he saw another potential pawn to send more souls his way. When Sylvanas fucked up her own gambit, he had her kidnap a bunch of potential people in hopes that maybe one could be used as a puppet to retrieve one or more of the sigils for him.

None of it was his set in stone plan. The set in stone plan was "slowly build up enough strength to break out of the Maw with Denathrius, Helya and Mueh'zala's help, then attack Oribos and the other covenant realms, take their sigils by force and use them to access Zereth Mortis and take control of reality." You'll note that most of this plan was already near completion before Shadowlands even happens. Revendreth is already under his control, Maldraxxus is down to a 3 v 1 war between Houses and about to be under his control and Bastion is at the start of a civil war to fall under his control. All the other tools just speed up that base strategy: deal a blow to the Arbiter to get even more souls, sneak an agent into Bastion to steal the sigil without having to take the whole region, etc.

He didn't need the arbiter gone or Argus' trap to work. He already had anima flowing in en masse from Revendreth. It just sped everything up.

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Yes it must take time and I'm really sure it will happen one way or another.

How about the changes?

I hope Durotar will have again a forest as the orcs' heritage quests suggest. I wonder what that would look like.

The Barrens could become a single area again with new giraffes.

On the Alliance side, I don't have too many ideas. Surely Gnomeregan reclaimed, Loch Modan dam rebuilt etc.

Do you have other ideas?

I don't get why people really want to fight troggs and kobols in Loch Modan... but the lake is back. Or be back in Westfall, WPL or Durotar but they're more green and have nicer textures.

WoD was 'revamp' done right. If you're going to revamp a zone it shouldn't just be HD, it should be entirely novel, with new terrain and a new aesthetic. The barrens shouldn't just be one zone again, it should be entirely overtaken by Botani survivors and a sprawling new parasitic jungle. Westfall but besieged by the Naga with a reef raised from the sea floor at the coast. Tirisfal but it's a toxic wasteland overrun by oozes and slime horrors pouring out of Lordaeron/UC (already a lost cause).

[ImTheMizAwesome]

How would you guys feel about rebuild ground mount riding? Again, similar to GW2, like dragonriding is.

Better mount idle animation and rider position, being able to sprint on a ground mount, maybe even add some attack skill that dismounts you but deals some dmg to a mob/mobs.

Of course at the beginning you would have special customizable ground mounts and types, like wolf/saber/horse/goat and some frog etc, for example frog like a bunny in gw2, could jump very high.

[Lady Atia]

How would you guys feel about rebuild ground mount riding? Again, similar to GW2, like dragonriding is.

Better mount idle animation and rider position, being able to sprint on a ground mount, maybe even add some attack skill that dismounts you but deals some dmg to a mob/mobs.

Of course at the beginning you would have special customizable ground mounts and types, like wolf/saber/horse/goat and some frog etc, for example frog like a bunny in gw2, could jump very high.

Would be kinda redundant now that we have Dragonriding tbh.