The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

It's an Earthen Mech tho. It says so in the description. It even resembles the various dwarf heritage armors.

I'm aware. I'm simply pointing out that if you look at the design of that mech, there are LF Warframe elements incorporated into it, along with clear Dwarves attributes.

Except none of those playable heroes corresponds to Augmentation. Destruction corresponds to Deathwing. Preservation has Alexstrasza & Chromie's abilities.

Deathwing (Black)= Scalecommander, Alexstraza (Red) = Flameshaper, Chromie (Bronze) = Chrono Warden.

The question was if a new class can pull from the larger lore beyond a 30 year old rts & a dead moba, and clearly it can & will.

With hero talents it would be way too myopic to base a tech class on just goblin & gnomes technology. I think if they came with mech & mini-bot customization in a "Goblin, Gnome, Forsaken, Elf, Draenei, Generic Alliance & Generic Horde" options it would cover everything. For instance;

It certainly can, but I think people tend to overextend exactly how Blizzard constructs a class. Look at Demon Hunters for example; Using your argument here, we should have Nightborne and Void Elf Demon Hunters and a 3rd spec, yet we don't. We don't because while WoW and WC in general expands concepts beyond their original point, classes tend to remain rather close to their core idea from the franchise character they're based upon.

Thus, the technology class isn't going to be much different from the only tech-based franchise character in Warcraft; Monte Gazlowe.

[Eldryth]

They actually do, one of the early Bastion Campaign quests implies that before the Anima Drought, you were free to fail or abort your training as a Kyrian and return to Oribos, to presumably either get assigned to another Covenant, or go to your religion's afterlife.
That fire slug's mate couldn't been elsewhere for just about any reason, Zovaal just told Sylvanas that it wasn't either one's choice.

There was also that stuff Danuser brought up in an interview about Durotan's afterlife which clashes with everything the Jailor claimed.

Supposedly he's in some eternal hunting ground with his wolves, and Draka can join him there after she finishes her duties in Maldraxxus. So if that's accurate, not only can families be together to begin with, but you can also change afterlives later on to join them and even retire from important roles.

[Nymrohd]

There was also that stuff Danuser brought up in an interview about Durotan's afterlife which clashes with everything the Jailor claimed.

Supposedly he's in some eternal hunting ground with his wolves, and Draka can join him there after she finishes her duties in Maldraxxus. So if that's accurate, not only can families be together to begin with, but you can also change afterlives later on to join them and even retire from important roles.

I think it's clear Zovaal just lied constantly. He knew he could arrange for some of his "predictions" to come true and he was manipulating someone that was clearly suicidal.

[Ersula]

Deathwing (Black)= Scalecommander, Alexstraza (Red) = Flameshaper, Chromie (Bronze) = Chrono Warden.

But none of those hero talent trees share abilities or talents with those HoTS characters. For example Scalecommander isn't about Deathwing: It has a talent that references the Black dragonflight but everything else in that tree is Azure & Ruby themed. So they're not based on Hots characters, they're based on the larger WoW lore, like I said.

It certainly can, but I think people tend to overextend exactly how Blizzard constructs a class. Look at Demon Hunters for example; Using your argument here, we should have Nightborne and Void Elf Demon Hunters and a 3rd spec, yet we don't. We don't because while WoW and WC in general expands concepts beyond their original point, classes tend to remain rather close to their core idea from the franchise character they're based upon.

Because Demon Hunter is a Hero Class. If this prospective class is a "hero class" it's probably going to be very specific when it comes to customization, but if its supposed to be a normal class (like you said) it has to be more general. Especially when they said they intend all non-hero-classes to be eventually available to all races.

I think it's clear Zovaal just lied constantly. He knew he could arrange for some of his "predictions" to come true and he was manipulating someone that was clearly suicidal.

Was Danuser even in charge of anything? Or ever knew what he was talking about? Inconsistencies & contradictions everywhere. Because the Quest narrative lady already explained Durotan's soul was within his weapon carried by Thrall, consistent with existing Orc spirituality: Which also set up Saurfang & Varian reaching out for Anduin from within Shalamayne.

I guess it makes sense WoW lore is created on the fly by several people who don't talk to each other.

[Joshuaj]

I think it's clear Zovaal just lied constantly. He knew he could arrange for some of his "predictions" to come true and he was manipulating someone that was clearly suicidal.

People tend to forget that the Jailer is quite literally Warcraft's version of the Devil. Ya know, someone who's infamous for their lying?

[Ksgrip]

Yeah, you haven't really said why you think like that though? Dangerous is a really strong word in this context. Is him being a "white saviour" your only excuse?

If he chooses not to try and save "indigenous" species as you say, then he's just awful, because if you can save someone but choose not to, you might as well be killing them yourself.

If Blizzard chooses to use someone else to save them, then wouldn't that mean it wasn't his choice in the first place? So how exactly is he "dangerous"? And outdated how? Because he's a strong man?

He/she definitely has a toxic unexplainable hate for the character and we can all infer why. Old religious man bad even if he is a hero

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Allegory, not satire. Alleria is definitely queer-coded. Both in terms of her appearance and in terms of her backstory. I hope you at least won't argue with this.

Jesus you have some problems to work through. Queer coded my guy, leave twitter it is rotting your brain.

[milkmustache]

Was Danuser even in charge of anything? Or ever knew what he was talking about? Inconsistencies & contradictions everywhere. Because the Quest narrative lady already explained Durotan's soul was within his weapon carried by Thrall, consistent with existing Orc spirituality: Which also set up Saurfang & Varian reaching out for Anduin from within Shalamayne.

I guess it makes sense WoW lore is created on the fly by several people who don't talk to each other.

Didn't we just find out that WoW only recently got it's own dedicated narrative team of sorts? Whereas before the narrative team was spread out across all of Blizzard's IPs. Hopefully that steers the course and prevents anything similar to Shadowlands lore era again

[Ksgrip]

This gotta be satire, right?

How is this kind of speech even allowed here? What is this level of idiocy we are seeing from Bauma

[Joshuaj]

What a tone-deaf thing to say. Alleria has been trapped in a loveless and sexless marriage for a thousand years. Her husband doesn't even try to understand her. And her son just admitted in a recent short story that he has little in common with her. The people of Quel'Thalas fear her and the Alliance doesn't trust her. She's all alone.

And Alleria is not some broodmare who needs to have children so she won't feel lonely. I hope her story becomes a beautiful allegory of a homosexual woman finally coming out and leaving her loveless heterosexual marriage behind. This would be a much more empowering story arc than her simply returning to a man who doesn't understand her. They just don't belong to each other.

...What????

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Whatchu talkin bout blud?

[Nymrohd]

How is this kind of speech even allowed here? What is this level of idiocy we are seeing from Bauma

I mean it's an out-there opinion but it isn't exactly offensive.

[Makabreska]

I see there is some hard fanfic going on right now. Always entertaining to see peeps trying to insert their fantasies into video game stories and then going bonkers when they ultimately do not happen.

[Ersula]

What a tone-deaf thing to say. Alleria has been trapped in a loveless and sexless marriage for a thousand years. Her husband doesn't even try to understand her. And her son just admitted in a recent short story that he has little in common with her. The people of Quel'Thalas fear her and the Alliance doesn't trust her. She's all alone.

And Alleria is not some broodmare who needs to have children so she won't feel lonely. I hope her story becomes a beautiful allegory of a homosexual woman finally coming out and leaving her loveless heterosexual marriage behind. This would be a much more empowering story arc than her simply returning to a man who doesn't understand her. They just don't belong to each other.

Alleria & Turalyon's marriage was portrayed as really healthy in Legion. Whatever has caused their rift it isn't that.

If I had to assume it's just that his role as high king of the alliance has made him extremely busy.

[Vakir]

It's obvious bait. That being said, anything "other" automatically defaulting to analysis as queer allegory when examined earnestly really needs to stop. It's the first thing people went to with Bones and All when it way more clearly resembled addiction.

But yeah. Alleria just learned how to do some cool shit and did so voluntarily knowing the risks.

[Ksgrip]

Alleria & Turalyon's marriage was portrayed as really healthy in Legion. Whatever has caused their rift it isn't that.

If I had to assume it's just that his role as high king of the alliance has made him extremely busy.

The more supported explanation is that she chose to distance herself from her family and calling it loveless is dumb as fuck since in all their stories it is said and shown that they love each other a lot. Anyway Bauma has a narrative

[Ersula]

It's obvious bait. That being said, anything "other" automatically defaulting to analysis as queer allegory when examined earnestly really needs to stop. It's the first thing people went to with Bones and All when it way more clearly resembled addiction.

But yeah. Alleria just learned how to do some cool shit and did so voluntarily knowing the risks.

I mean, "queer theory" is an entire academic theorum that revolves around interpreting queer allegories where they didn't exist in the auteur's intentions. She can interpret the story any way she wants, but I think if any of the WoW writers were smart enough to know the phrase "queer allegory" the writing would be a lot better than it is.

[Teriz]

But none of those hero talent trees share abilities or talents with those HoTS characters. For example Scalecommander isn't about Deathwing: It has a talent that references the Black dragonflight but everything else in that tree is Azure & Ruby themed. So they're not based on Hots characters, they're based on the larger WoW lore, like I said.

Uh that tree completely revolves around Deep Breath; An ability where you're flying around the screen setting ground target on fire. When you're not doing that, you're summoning black dragons to attack targets from the sky (via those ruby and azure abilities) which in turn reduces the cooldown on your deep breath ability so you can fly above and set folks on fire again. Deathwing HotS also had bombardment attacks and a flying ability where he flew across the screen setting ground targets on fire.

Both come from this;

Because Demon Hunter is a Hero Class. If this prospective class is a "hero class" it's probably going to be very specific when it comes to customization, but if its supposed to be a normal class (like you said) it has to be more general. Especially when they said they intend all non-hero-classes to be eventually available to all races.

The Monk class wasn't a hero class, yet it was completely Pandaren-themed and almost entirely based on Chen Stormstout. There was zero Scarlet, Argent, Crimson, Brightblaze, or Auchenai Monk influence on that class despite those types of monks being all over WoW long before MoP.

[Cheezits]

The Monk class wasn't a hero class, yet it was completely Pandaren-themed and almost entirely based on Chen Stormstout. There was zero Scarlet, Argent, Crimson, Brightblaze, or Auchenai Monk influence on that class despite those types of monks being all over WoW long before MoP.

Hero classes seem to be usually tied to unique customizations but I think it's more telling that the hero classes actually lock the playable character into specific lore arrangements: even if you RP it away, the playable DK, DH or Evoker has a very specific lore story that explains who they are and why they have those powers.

Monks are based on Chen and Pandaria but they don't have that unique lore. They are just random guys that were likely trained by a Panda via the class trainers in the starting zones, but nothing locks you into that.

The next class, be it a Void thing or a Tinker/Mechanic thing, will also probably not be a hero class because the racial background is too diverse for it to just be "Arthas/Illidan/Neltharion soldiers". If it's a Void class it COULD be Dimensius soldiers from K'aresh but I feel that class would be extended to a lot of races that have used the void before, as opposed to a single Ethereal-locked class.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Nonsense. I don't hate all men, I just find men like Turalyon outdated and therefore dangerous. And you know this, because we have discussed this several times. There is absolutely nothing toxic about it. And I'm not the only one here who thinks so.

First off, I find it a bit concerning that you'd conflate danger and mere semi-obsolescence. It's a ridiculous notion rooted in a kind of accelerationist/futurist thought that hasn't historically gone over very well. Second, the thing about your whole "white savior" narrative is that it's not applicable to this case: he's not a guy from some advanced society going to save a bunch of caricature backwater tribals who worship fire, he's a guy from a much less advanced society picked up and uplifted by a hyperadvanced society of people smarter, older, stronger, and literally, physically whiter than him on every level who understand his religion better than he does. He's not a white savior, he's an Isekai protagonist: someone vastly underqualified who happens to wind up in charge anyway because he's someone the audience can connect with better.

In this case, the audience can connect with him because — regardless of the audience member's race — he's human. He is the familiar guy who gets to have all the cool stuff because the audience wants to root for something that looks like an ape-creature from planet Earth instead of more tentacle-goats who've lived long enough that shoving the information in their brain in a human brain would make the latter pop like a zit.

[Ersula]

Monks are based on Chen and Pandaria but they don't have that unique lore. They are just random guys that were likely trained by a Panda via the class trainers in the starting zones, but nothing locks you into that.

Exactly. I was about to say they created that lore at the same time they added monk, so the only argument that furthers, is that they can pull a class out of their butts based on anything they want.

[Cheezits]

Exactly. I was about to say they created that lore at the same time they added monk, so the only argument that furthers, is that they can pull a class out of their butts based on anything they want.

Of course. That is why Evoker exists instead of Dragonsworn, which already existed but had little to zero lore and clearly wasn't cool enough for Modern Blizz to make the new class. Same concept just dolled up.

MOP Monk is the same thing in that it's a tweaked up version of the original monk, of which there were a few before that, but given cool Fantasy Asia powers. Artificer will probably be a similar tweak up of Tinker (made "more badass" and given additional lore)