The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

I imagine a void class of some sorts will also be a major possibility for Midnight. I think having void abilities mainly behind a single class's talent in it's key expansion would be a missed opportunity for RPers or players with more interest in it, but I'm fully stumped to how they would go about it.

If it's a thing I think it will 100% be a Void Paladin equivalent in that it it is a priest in plate armor using a melee weapon championing their faith. But this time its purple/blue and leaning more on full-DPS/destruction as opposed to the healing vibes of HPal.

What the name and lore will be I'm not sure but just "Void Paladin" conceptually is what I expect. Could even be called Harbinger.

[milkmustache]

If it's a thing I think it will 100% be a Void Paladin equivalent in that it it is a priest in plate armor using a melee weapon championing their faith. But this time its purple/blue and leaning more on full-DPS/destruction as opposed to the healing vibes of HPal.

What the name and lore will be I'm not sure but just "Void Paladin" conceptually is what I expect. Could even be called Harbinger.

I wonder where Elune ties into this because a darker void themed melee unit could totally have a Night Warrior spec, sepecially with the Void Elf paladin in Telorgus being titled "Weilder of the Eclipse".

Although now that I think more on it, I'm getting the feeling that Spellbreaker may be the class to fit with the Elven theme. Could have a void spec called something like Mana Eater which sort of dark-heart-absorbs enemy spells and uses them to augment allies.

[Cheezits]

I believe you go off the rails when you start pulling in everything that has a hint of tech in it. Again, it's like saying every race should be a Demon Hunter, or the Monk class should be based on Pandaren, Auchenai, Argent, Crimson, and Brightblaze Monks. In the end, the DH class is essentially a playable version of Illidan, and the Monk class is a playable version of Chen. Based on that precedent, it stands to reason that the tech class will be a playable version of Gazlowe.

Artificer over Tinker has been discussed enough that I don't want to start the argument. However, there is a point that if it's Artificer, there will LIKELY be a reduction in how unique the mechanical elements are because as you said there are too many tech races.

I don't think that will stop Blizzard, however. I can see there being one Mech or backpack bot that is customizable like the dragons/delve mount, with some racial flavor, but not a unique mech or backpack for each race. Which would annoy some people but not as much as a Goblin/Gnome only race would. Evoker being locked to Drac has already annoyed lots of people even though if it was a multi-race class it would have little to zero customization because Blizzard isn't going to put that much work into it (no horns and scales for Pandas/Kul Tirans)

[Teriz]

This kind of leans credit into the idea that Tinker/Articifer has some real possibilities at the moment. A combination of Earthen and Undermine engineers could be the pandaren monks in this case.

I still think that a Tinker class would fall further into the Druid/Paladin individual racial art sets catagory depending on the races available. It's certainly a toss up on how to approach it.

I largely agree.

I imagine a void class of some sorts will also be a major possibility for Midnight. I think having void abilities mainly behind a single class's talent in it's key expansion would be a missed opportunity for RPers or players with more interest in it, but I'm fully stumped to how they would go about it.

TBF, you have a Void-based race, Spriest spec, and two hero talent trees dedicated to Shadow/Void. You can go pretty deep into Void gameplay if you want. I'm not really seeing void-based gameplay someone is missing out on.

[Vakir]

I mean, "queer theory" is an entire academic theorum that revolves around interpreting queer allegories where they didn't exist in the auteur's intentions. She can interpret the story any way she wants, but I think if any of the WoW writers were smart enough to know the phrase "queer allegory" the writing would be a lot better than it is.

I'm aware of that. The problem is when the overwhelming popular consciousness is to default to it because it's in vogue. It's not just here.

It's like if everything immediately jumped to being Marxist in interpretation. It's tired. There's a difference between "X-Men can be read as an allegory for the treatment of LGBTQ+ people" and it drowning it out as THE read and the fact that other marginalized groups were already there. It's why I'm glad '97 clearly took aim at the "white replacement" conspiracy nonsense because it's something different and novel.

But yeah, I don't think anyone at Blizzars is aiming particularly high. The closest confirmed attempt in interview was Golden trying to base Jaina in BFA around "depression," the equivalent of a fucking writing lay-up.

[Teriz]

Artificer over Tinker has been discussed enough that I don't want to start the argument. However, there is a point that if it's Artificer, there will LIKELY be a reduction in how unique the mechanical elements are because as you said there are too many tech races.

I don't think that will stop Blizzard, however. I can see there being one Mech or backpack bot that is customizable like the dragons/delve mount, with some racial flavor, but not a unique mech or backpack for each race. Which would annoy some people but not as much as a Goblin/Gnome only race would. Evoker being locked to Drac has already annoyed lots of people even though if it was a multi-race class it would have little to zero customization because Blizzard isn't going to put that much work into it (no horns and scales for Pandas/Kul Tirans)

I frankly see it as a Shaman/Paladin/Druid style class where each race has unique models for their summonables and forms, yet all share the same ability graphics. Kind of like how Druids, Shaman, and Paladins have unique forms, totems, and mounts for each race.

I also agree that Blizzard shouldn't limit the class to only Goblins and Gnomes, but at the same time they shouldn't expand it to every race because then it becomes generic. Again, Druid/Shaman/Paladin is the happy medium it should aim for.

[milkmustache]

I frankly see it as a Shaman/Paladin/Druid style class where each race has unique models for their summonables and forms, yet all share the same ability graphics. Kind of like how Druids, Shaman, and Paladins have unique forms, totems, and mounts for each race.

I don't love the idea of it being locked to a few races, but this really is the biggest block in Tinkers' introduction as a class.

It's no coincidence that the three classes mentioned are the three standard classes (barring hero) that are yet to be fully available to all races. It boils down to the individual art assets, and I think that Tinker's assets would almost out perform the mentioned classes in theory if we use Dracthyr customization options as a new standard across the board.

EDIT: I should mention that I'm operating in the belief that Blizzard fully intends to open these 3 classes to all races, which makes the current discussion a bit more of a headscratcher as to how they do Tinker.

So it's a question of where do they go? Introduce it to a handful of races and continue limiting classes, maybe this time claiming it's a hero class as well, or go crazy on art assets and open to all, even if it's a loser fit?

[Cheezits]

EDIT: I should mention that I'm operating in the belief that Blizzard fully intends to open these 3 classes to all races, which makes the current discussion a bit more of a headscratcher as to how they do Tinker.

Unlike Tinker, which would drop in a new expansion and needs all its assets introduced in a single expansion, they are dripfeeding Paladin/Shaman/Druid to the point that it probably won't happen for years. We may see a Belf/Helf paladin swap in Midnight plus Nelf and Forsaken paladins, but other than that?

Then with Shaman there is no effort to add them or add a universal totem in DF or TWW, so that will probably take even longer.

[milkmustache]

Unlike Tinker, which would drop in a new expansion and needs all its assets introduced in a single expansion, they are dripfeeding Paladin/Shaman/Druid to the point that it probably won't happen for years. We may see a Belf/Helf paladin swap in Midnight plus Nelf and Forsaken paladins, but other than that?

Then with Shaman there is no effort to add them or add a universal totem in DF or TWW, so that will probably take even longer.

Yea, that one stumped me to the point that I wonder if maybe they backpedaled on purpose? Maybe there is another class in the pipeline that requires significant individual racial based art assets that would just complicate things based on those three.

DF was a literal perfect opportunity to gain all 3 classes for all races, so it's massively confusing why that never happened despite being telegraphed.

[Ksgrip]

I'm aware of that. The problem is when the overwhelming popular consciousness is to default to it because it's in vogue. It's not just here.

It's like if everything immediately jumped to being Marxist in interpretation. It's tired. There's a difference between "X-Men can be read as an allegory for the treatment of LGBTQ+ people" and it drowning it out as THE read and the fact that other marginalized groups were already there. It's why I'm glad '97 clearly took aim at the "white replacement" conspiracy nonsense because it's something different and novel.

But yeah, I don't think anyone at Blizzars is aiming particularly high. The closest confirmed attempt in interview was Golden trying to base Jaina in BFA around "depression," the equivalent of a fucking writing lay-up.

Seriously this whole conversation is so stupid. Why is this kind of discussion even allowed here. Identity politics don’t belong to a forum like this and the only thing it spawns is toxic debate.

Anyway I wonder if he/shel will come here mouthing foul when that nonsensical interpretation is confronted with reality

[Makabreska]

Alpha/beta patch hype?

[Ersula]

DF was a literal perfect opportunity to gain all 3 classes for all races, so it's massively confusing why that never happened despite being telegraphed.

You know it takes them at least 2 years to add something after they foreshadow it. "Khaz Agar" showed up right on time in the 10.0 pre-patch.

he/she

just say they like a normal person

[milkmustache]

You know it takes them at least 2 years to add something after they foreshadow it. "Khaz Agar" showed up right on time in the 10.0 pre-patch.

You're right, but these all seemed a bit more straight forward, almost like it should have been included in the expansion mindset from the beginning. It's oone thing to plan TWW and drop a Khaz Algar lore tidbit early on to fuel speculation.

It's another to have an expansion with an introductory foe be a large army of shamans, an expansion long questline about the idol of Paladins, and a patch in the home of druids while extending rogues and priests to all races, just to not finish the job on the last 3 classes.

[Vakir]

The delay on base classes for all is 100% because of paladin mounts and druid forms. It's inevitable.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I honestly don't get the Xal'atath obsession. There is no depth there. I guess it is just the voice acting together with them making her an elf?

The talking dagger was introduced in Legion at a time when WoW was almost out of established villains. Arthas gone, Deathwing gone, Garrosh gone, Sargeras about to be gone. The only thing left with Azshara. So players began scraping the bottom of the barrel to find new things to look forward to. The talking dagger had some flavor text and youtubers like Belluar grasped onto that and pushed her really, really hard as the next "big villain". Given how the last decade of expansion villains have been handled, I expect her to be yet another disappointment.

[Ersula]

The delay on base classes for all is 100% because of paladin mounts and druid forms. It's inevitable.

But in the context of how the idea was introduced, they had every reason to just make generic Tyr's guard mounts. 10.2 came with new generic forms for Druid. Nobody actually uses the racial forms anymore. It would be insane to make racial forms now.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Literally copy and paste every expansion new "sexy edgy waifu" And you will profit from a large number of fans of aesthetics and dominance.

The hardcore fans were talking about Xala'tath before she got a character design. People aren't into her for her aesthetic value like people liked Sylvanas pre-Legion. It's all about the promise of a good, threatening story arc. It was the mystery box people were excited for.

[Teriz]

I don't love the idea of it being locked to a few races, but this really is the biggest block in Tinkers' introduction as a class.

It's no coincidence that the three classes mentioned are the three standard classes (barring hero) that are yet to be fully available to all races. It boils down to the individual art assets, and I think that Tinker's assets would almost out perform the mentioned classes in theory if we use Dracthyr customization options as a new standard across the board.

EDIT: I should mention that I'm operating in the belief that Blizzard fully intends to open these 3 classes to all races, which makes the current discussion a bit more of a headscratcher as to how they do Tinker.

So it's a question of where do they go? Introduce it to a handful of races and continue limiting classes, maybe this time claiming it's a hero class as well, or go crazy on art assets and open to all, even if it's a loser fit?

Frankly, I don't believe that Druid, Shaman, or Paladin will ever be available for all races. Those were always the more "specific" classes in classic WoW, and they were always limited to far less races than the other classic classes.

The same really applies to Demon Hunters and Evokers. Again, far too many race-specific assets for that to be expanded to other races. Hell, they haven't even expanded Demon Hunters to other Elven races yet.

With a technology class, I think we're looking more at a Druid situation where while its a base class, its going to be highly limited racially speaking.

[Xilurm]

The hardcore fans were talking about Xala'tath before she got a character design. People aren't into her for her aesthetic value like people liked Sylvanas pre-Legion. It's all about the promise of a good, threatening story arc. It was the mystery box people were excited for.

She was called "knaifu" way before she got a physical form. It was her voice.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Is there some sort of implication that Xal'atath will use the Dark Heart on the player characters/main NPCs?

It might just be some RP stuff happening during the fight like the sigils at the end of Sanctum of Domination, or maybe it will be a game mechanic like controlling Socrethar's mech.