The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[micwini]

So what is your opinion?

What Needs to be explained for “how this character's looks make sense within the existing framework of Warcraft lore”?

My opinion is that characters' looks should make sense within the confines of the lore and not be about the latest (mostly american) political trend. Im not from america and it just looks even more obvious and stupid from the outside.
Apparently to the other poster. Im fine with different skin colors as long as they are not dark. Simply not true. It could have been a green elf, a yellow elf, a blue elf with yellow dots. It doesn't make sense when you then compare them to other members of their same species.
I have just as much issues with purple eyes on blood elves, green hair on humans, etc. as I have with this, but just because this specific example is a touchy subject, people lose their shit when you critique it. Like seriously: Imagine them adding mag'har orcs with white people skin tone. That would be equally as stupid.

As mentioned: If they turn out to be from a gigantic diverse continent in the end: Whatever, but currently it is just the latest token character. I mean, regardless of opinion I think everyone here is smart enough to acknowledge that.

[Darkarath]

My opinion is that characters' looks should make sense within the confines of the lore and not be about the latest (mostly american) political trend. Im not from america and it just looks even more obvious and stupid from the outside.
Apparently to the other poster. Im fine with different skin colors as long as they are not dark. Simply not true. It could have been a green elf, a yellow elf, a blue elf with yellow dots. It doesn't make sense when you then compare them to other members of their same species.
I have just as much issues with purple eyes on blood elves, green hair on humans, etc. as I have with this, but just because this specific example is a touchy subject, people lose their shit when you critique it. Like seriously: Imagine them adding mag'har orcs with white people skin tone. That would be equally as stupid.

As mentioned: If they turn out to be from a gigantic diverse continent in the end: Whatever, but currently it is just the latest token character. I mean, regardless of opinion I think everyone here is smart enough to acknowledge that.

How cool would be that most of the Arathi Empire population are black people? Like House Velaryon of House of the Dragon. I think that it is about time that WoW increases their human diversity and cultures besides giving players customization options.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

As mentioned: If they turn out to be from a gigantic diverse continent in the end: Whatever, but currently it is just the latest token character. I mean, regardless of opinion I think everyone here is smart enough to acknowledge that.

So excluding the half elf part, isn’t the eastern kingdom that diverse continent?

The Arthi come from there originally and we have had black people there since wow launched with them being in classic even if there was only one crappy opinion.

[Makorus]

My opinion is that characters' looks should make sense within the confines of the lore and not be about the latest (mostly american) political trend. Im not from america and it just looks even more obvious and stupid from the outside.
Apparently to the other poster. Im fine with different skin colors as long as they are not dark. Simply not true. It could have been a green elf, a yellow elf, a blue elf with yellow dots. It doesn't make sense when you then compare them to other members of their same species.
I have just as much issues with purple eyes on blood elves, green hair on humans, etc. as I have with this, but just because this specific example is a touchy subject, people lose their shit when you critique it. Like seriously: Imagine them adding mag'har orcs with white people skin tone. That would be equally as stupid.

As mentioned: If they turn out to be from a gigantic diverse continent in the end: Whatever, but currently it is just the latest token character. I mean, regardless of opinion I think everyone here is smart enough to acknowledge that.

Sorry, but once again, how can't humans or elves in WoW be black? What makes it stupid? You always dance around the topic.

[micwini]

How cool would be that most of the Arathi Empire population are black people? Like House Velaryon of House of the Dragon. I think that it is about time that WoW increases their human diversity and cultures besides giving players customization options.

It would still be an "oh of course..." moment, but that would be a better way to do it. Because it makes sense.

So excluding the half elf part, isn’t the esteem kingdom that diverse continent?

The Arthi come from there originally and we have had black people there since wow launched with them being in classic even if there was only one crappy opinion.

You mean the eastern kingdoms? If so, yes. If people gather from all over, it makes sense for there to be a mix. Not sure if I got your reply correct because it seemed to be struck by some autocorrects :P

[Santandame]

Agreed.

If Warbands are well implemented, and eventually expanded, which it is the idea by Blizzard own words, I can guarantee you that I will play WoW even more (which may not be healthy... ).

My hope is that in the future Warbands will cover almost every reputation (they have already stated that some special ones will not be included), quests (hopefully with the integration of a New Game + feature or something similar)and professions (which are basically account-wide now, but it is very inconvenient that learned recipes are not shared).

I agree that they are much welcome addition that will improve the playability of the game. I’m all for them. I just think it’s disingenuous to list it as a feature of the expansion in a bid to prop it up against the features added in previous expansions.

We were asking for this back in BfA and Ion gave his usual lawyer speak in defence of why it’s not in game and why it won’t be added anytime soon. It’s something that could have, and should have been dropped in a minor patch. Not the selling point of an expansion.

Don’t get me wrong, I think their inclusion is brilliant. I’m glad they will be a thing. I think the next expansion looks decent enough. But War Bands have clearly been held back to slap on an expansion feature list to say “look what we’re giving you in this new expansion” which is fine. It’s just disingenuous to compare them to the likes of Mythic+, Islands, Delves, Torghast, Garrisons, Dragonriding, Warfronts etc.

[micwini]

Sorry, but once again, how can't humans or elves in WoW be black? What makes it stupid? You always dance around the topic.

You keep replying with statements or opinions that I don't have (classic strawman argument). Im not dancing around anything. I cannot argue an opinion that I do not have. You are trying to get me to say something, give an argument or imply an opinion that I simply do not have.
You think I hate people with dark skin and you should have deduced by now that it is not the case. I take issue with how the character looks. This time it happens to be a touchy subject because it is dark skin. You wouldn't care if I made a similar comment about the latest weird eye color that doesn't make sense.

I also have never said they can't, I said it doesn't make sense within the established lore.

And you have yet to explain why it makes sense for faerin to look like she does. The only one dancing around is you.

I said it doesn't make sense and since, you've not replied once why it DOES. It's hard to discuss if you don't give a counterargument.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You mean the eastern kingdoms? If so, yes. If people gather from all over, it makes sense for there to be a mix. Not sure if I got your reply correct because it seemed to be struck by some autocorrects :P

blasted phone…

So I don’t quite get it, I’m not on the Beta is there like no other black people as part of the expedition? Because her being black doesn’t really need a lore explanation if wow has had black humans as part of the humans since classic.

[micwini]

blasted phone…

So I don’t quite get it, I’m not on the Beta is there like no other black people as part of the expedition? Because her being black doesn’t really need a lore explanation if wow has had black humans as part of the humans since classic.

Like I said: If they afterwards seem to come from another large diverse continent, it would make much more sense. The issue is the reason for the look and that it doesnt make sense right now. Not the look itself. I need to repeat that last bit constantly so I don't get heckled.

It's way easier to argue my points when it's about eye color or some trait that isn't this one specific thing. Like a missing arm can always be explained by "I lost my arm in Battle of the X or Y". That makes a character.

[Santandame]

How cool would be that most of the Arathi Empire population are black people? Like House Velaryon of House of the Dragon. I think that it is about time that WoW increases their human diversity and cultures besides giving players customization options.

Which would feel a bit odd that the majority of the Arathi in Hallowfall are white.

My preferred option would be that Avaloren is a super continent and we explore it over the course of several expansions. A continent with several different cultures of humans, white, black, eastern etc each with their own customs, architecture spread out over the land and what not but that would be a pipe dream to ask.

I'm still holding out hope to eventually get Tel'Abim as a setting which focuses primarily on a middle eastern theme with deserts, magical arabian inspired cities, djinn/ifrit etc.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Like I said: If they afterwards seem to come from another large diverse continent, it would make much more sense. The issue is the reason for the look and that it doesnt make sense right now. Not the look itself. I need to repeat that last bit constantly so I don't get heckled.

It's way easier to argue my points when it's about eye color or some trait that isn't this one specific thing. Like a missing arm can always be explained by "I lost my arm in Battle of the X or Y". That makes a character.

Ok let’s take this step by step as I don’t understand what’s happening.

If she came from a diverse continent it wouldn’t be a problem.

She comes from the Arhai empire which is made up of humans and elfs.

Said empire comes from the eastern kingdoms.

The eastern kingdoms is a diverse continent.

Is there a problem any where in this chain? If there isn’t a problem shouldn’t the first issue be fixed as by following said chain she would be from a diverse continent?

[Santandame]

Ok let’s take this step by step as I don’t understand what’s happening.

If she came from a diverse continent it wouldn’t be a problem.

She comes from the Arhai empire which is made up of humans and elfs.

Said empire comes from the eastern kingdoms.

The eastern kingdoms is a diverse continent.

Is there a problem any where in this chain? If there isn’t a problem shouldn’t the first issue be fixed as by following said chain she would be from a diverse continent?

I think it would have worked better to establish the Eastern Kingdoms as a diverse setting to begin with. Black humans living in Stranglethorn Vale for example with their own towns and cities, separate from the rule of Stormwind with their own culture. Of course have have black, eastern etc humans in Stormwind too. But Stormwind does very much feel like a very white nation.

[Izalla]

Nerubians being used instead of Qiraji just seems bizarre to me. We haven't seen the Qiraji since Classic. They have some of the coolest, most unique and exotic models in the game - just imagine those updated to reflect the modern art style? With Khaz Algar being set in the South, which is where the Qiraji were based, it just felt like they'd be most fitting. I'd have thought Nerubians would have been held back for the return to Northrend with The Last Titan. Its just a very odd decision in my opinion.

The only thing I can think of is that Blizz laments scrapping Azjol Nerub from Wrath, so with us getting the first and presumably only underground expansion, they thought now was the time to do it. But to that I just say again, why not wait until The Last Titan? New Northrend is going to need some new zones, Azjol Nerub would have been perfect.

They updated some of the models in BFA because they were used for Silithus, but they didn't see much use.

[Makorus]

You keep replying with statements or opinions that I don't have (classic strawman argument). Im not dancing around anything. I cannot argue an opinion that I do not have. You are trying to get me to say something, give an argument or imply an opinion that I simply do not have.
You think I hate people with dark skin and you should have deduced by now that it is not the case. I take issue with how the character looks. This time it happens to be a touchy subject because it is dark skin. You wouldn't care if I made a similar comment about the latest weird eye color that doesn't make sense.

I also have never said they can't, I said it doesn't make sense within the established lore.

And you have yet to explain why it makes sense for faerin to look like she does. The only one dancing around is you.

I said it doesn't make sense and since, you've not replied once why it DOES. It's hard to discuss if you don't give a counterargument.

All you do is say "It doesn't make sense within the established lore", but you never say what that actually means. Why does it not make sense within the established lore? Where in Chronicles does it say that humans are only white?

And you have yet to explain why it makes sense for faerin to look like she does.

Because it does? Humans can have black skin tones since Shadowlands. Black humans were retconned to have been existing since Vanilla. There were clear Asian NPCs as well. Arguably, there was a dark skincolour since Classic. There have been black characters in lore and Hearthstone since before Shadowlands.

[Jolly Roger]

Warbands isn’t a feature comparable with Delves. It’s something that should have been in the game for years (account wide progress etc) and is usually something that would have been added in a minor patch in previous expansions. A new fancy loading screen isn’t content.

they are comparable when they are both new features

what system in a minor patch is comparable to warbands which make 90% of the game account bound and cross server?

[Izalla]

Yes! Forgot about that one:


I like one of the theories in this thread (that the quote above came from); that she's a literal Harbinger/cleanup-crew for the Void. If you are a Void entity and you see her, you should be scared - because that means you messed up.

Like the Wolf from Pulp Fiction haha

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I think it would have worked better to establish the Eastern Kingdoms as a diverse setting to begin with. Black humans living in Stranglethorn Vale for example with their own towns and cities, separate from the rule of Stormwind with their own culture. Of course have have black, eastern etc humans in Stormwind too. But Stormwind does very much feel like a very white nation.

I’d disagree that they should be split into there own culture as there’s no reason for wow humans to split along skin colour, but ya I wouldn’t disagree that SW is lacking in even if there have always been some Asian and black people in it.

[Makorus]

they are comparable when they are both new features

what system in a minor patch is comparable to warbands which make 90% of the game account bound and cross server?

Arguably Timewalking and the scaling technology it implemented.

[micwini]

Ok let’s take this step by step as I don’t understand what’s happening.

If she came from a diverse continent it wouldn’t be a problem.

She comes from the Arhai empire which is made up of humans and elfs.

Said empire comes from the eastern kingdoms.

The eastern kingdoms is a diverse continent.

Is there a problem any where in this chain? If there isn’t a problem shouldn’t the first issue be fixed as by following said chain she would be from a diverse continent?

They dont come from EK, they come from somewhere else. the ones in EK come from there also iirc. I also haven't kept up much so I wouldnt know the details.

[Izalla]

For me the explanation is cynical and simple; they now have made the models and the architecture so they can use them for Northrend.

They already had a few updated qiraji from Silithus, you'd think they would just keep updating and expanding on those what with the renewed importance of the sword. Not like they couldn't modify and reuse Madraxxus stuff for Northrend