The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Makorus]

I am glad Xalatath is not an Old God. We really, really, really need to move past Old Gods at this point. It's like if we fought random Infernals for like 10 expansions in a row and they expect us to fear the Burning Legion.

[Nymrohd]

I think it would have worked better to establish the Eastern Kingdoms as a diverse setting to begin with. Black humans living in Stranglethorn Vale for example with their own towns and cities, separate from the rule of Stormwind with their own culture. Of course have have black, eastern etc humans in Stormwind too. But Stormwind does very much feel like a very white nation.

If color skin diversity is the issue, all you need to do is have diverse skin colors among Vrykul clans. You could have had the Vrykul clans themselves be homogeneous but then the humans who came from all the clans and mingled immediately would be diverse from the start.

[Phunkle]

Can someone tell me what's up with the placed called Rootlands? I've seen it brought up a couple of times in this thread, is this some sort of datamined location?

[Sondrelk]

Can someone tell me what's up with the placed called Rootlands? I've seen it brought up a couple of times in this thread, is this some sort of datamined location?

One of the zones (ringing depths I want to say) has a very suspicious area blocked off by roots, along with the Harronir evidently being primarily located somewhere else. The area blocked off by roots also leads to an unused area on the map that is the perfect location and size to have a zone.
The Rootlands is just a speculation shorthand for whatever zone would be set in this area.

It's not confirmed, but almost everything points to it being a location eventually. Similar to how more or less everyone expected the area west of the Ohn'ahran plains to have a zone eventually.

[Cheezits]

One of the zones (ringing depths I want to say) has a very suspicious area blocked off by roots, along with the Harronir evidently being primarily located somewhere else. The area blocked off by roots also leads to an unused area on the map that is the perfect location and size to have a zone.
The Rootlands is just a speculation shorthand for whatever zone would be set in this area.

It's not confirmed, but almost everything points to it being a location eventually. Similar to how more or less everyone expected the area west of the Ohn'ahran plains to have a zone eventually.

The roots are sticking out of the northwest chasm where Hallowfall meets Azj Kahet. AK is also where the two Harronir camps are located, on that western end of the zone.

Alternatively, the Venture Company area is on the far east side of AK, in the Niffen village. We don't see their tunnel however.

There is a small pit in the village that could be used for the Brawlers Guild but it is VERY small so I'm not sure.

[Marlamin]

Can someone tell me what's up with the placed called Rootlands? I've seen it brought up a couple of times in this thread, is this some sort of datamined location?

The name comes from some internal dev map references to 11RTL Rootlands as well as there being a decided upon size for a zone called Rootlands on an early (incomplete) dev map that we can't directly identify.

[Cheezits]

The name comes from some internal dev map references to 11RTL Rootlands as well as there being a decided upon size for a zone called Rootlands on an early (incomplete) dev map that we can't directly identify.

snip

Interesting, per those notes it would be about the size of Ringing Deeps (Earthenworks), which is the smallest zone (20).

If this stays the same then I would think it's not going to be a major focus (megadungeon area) and we may get a bigger Undermine.

[Varodoc]

I am glad Xalatath is not an Old God. We really, really, really need to move past Old Gods at this point. It's like if we fought random Infernals for like 10 expansions in a row and they expect us to fear the Burning Legion.

Wow, I think this might be one of the worst comparisons I have ever seen. I feel the need to congratulate you for coming up with this post.

Imagine comparing the Old Gods to "random Infernals", hilarious.

[Phunkle]

The roots are sticking out of the northwest chasm where Hallowfall meets Azj Kahet. AK is also where the two Harronir camps are located, on that western end of the zone.

Alternatively, the Venture Company area is on the far east side of AK, in the Niffen village. We don't see their tunnel however.

There is a small pit in the village that could be used for the Brawlers Guild but it is VERY small so I'm not sure.

Can you show me the place on the map so that I can check it out on beta? I can't seem to find it just by directions alone, I'm afraid

[Raetary]

Can you show me the place on the map so that I can check it out on beta? I can't seem to find it just by directions alone, I'm afraid

It's the root-y area around Wildcamp Or'lay:

[username993720]

Because it does? Humans can have black skin tones since Shadowlands. Black humans were retconned to have been existing since Vanilla. There were clear Asian NPCs as well. Arguably, there was a dark skincolour since Classic. There have been black characters in lore and Hearthstone since before Shadowlands.

You know what's funny?
There are so many ethnicities in real-life, yet americans think the world is comprised of whites, blacks and asians. Moreover, for some reason, americans think all blacks, whites and asians are the same, like there aren't multiple different countries with different people in Europe, Africa and Asia.

[Cheezits]

I have always been confused about the "there doesn't need to be a reason for POC humans" argument. No, I guess there doesn't HAVE to be, but there is definitely some lore potential there that would help flesh out the universe. Much more than the weird "they came from Stranglethorn lol" ideas that have been toyed with by Traveler.

I also don't think that encouraging a lore explanation makes you racist. Maybe DEMANDING one, sure, but imo it would be cool if there were islands and areas of Azeroth where asian and black humans came from.

It also doesn't have to be "black people come from wow africa asian people come from wow asia" if people are scared of that. Pandaria already nipped the latter in the bud unless the new scare is WoW Japan (people seem insistent this will never happen because China but idk)

[Nymrohd]

I have always been confused about the "there doesn't need to be a reason for POC humans" argument. No, I guess there doesn't HAVE to be, but there is definitely some lore potential there that would help flesh out the universe. Much more than the weird "they came from Stranglethorn lol" ideas that have been toyed with by Traveler.

I also don't think that encouraging a lore explanation makes you racist. Maybe DEMANDING one, sure, but imo it would be cool if there were islands and areas of Azeroth where asian and black humans came from.

Here is the thing, all humans come from Vrykul. They all landed in Tirisfal and then spread from there and there hasn't be anywhere near enough time for significant differentiation to make sense.
So it makes more sense to just make the Vrykul themselves diverse.

[Cheezits]

Here is the thing, all humans come from Vrykul. They all landed in Tirisfal and then spread from there and there hasn't be anywhere near enough time for significant differentiation to make sense.
So it makes more sense to just make the Vrykul themselves diverse.

That would also work and would be pretty cool, though I can hear the screams from boomers already when a black and asian vrykul are retconned into Northrend.

[Samin]

I mean, some characters were literally retconned to be Black/Asian. The wide-spread adding of Black/Asian characters certainly happened in Shadowlands. I am not saying it's a bad thing or that they haven't existed. I just find it incredibly laughable to need a lore reason to have black humans in a video game. It's just a thinly-veiled dog whistle to be racist.

If anything the game needed a lore reason why there are so many "white" characters and there just wasn't a good one, so they started fixing the discrepancy.

Here is the thing, all humans come from Vrykul. They all landed in Tirisfal and then spread from there and there hasn't be anywhere near enough time for significant differentiation to make sense.
So it makes more sense to just make the Vrykul themselves diverse.

Given that Vrykul and Humans are ultimately the result of the Curse of Flesh - an ailment created by creatures of the void, void being all about "possibilities", it kind of makes sense if the Curse also introduced more variation instead of just making things fleshy and weak(er)

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I have always been confused about the "there doesn't need to be a reason for POC humans" argument. No, I guess there doesn't HAVE to be, but there is definitely some lore potential there that would help flesh out the universe. Much more than the weird "they came from Stranglethorn lol" ideas that have been toyed with by Traveler.

I also don't think that encouraging a lore explanation makes you racist. Maybe DEMANDING one, sure, but imo it would be cool if there were islands and areas of Azeroth where asian and black humans came from.

It also doesn't have to be "black people come from wow africa asian people come from wow asia" if people are scared of that. Pandaria already nipped the latter in the bud unless the new scare is WoW Japan (people seem insistent this will never happen because China but idk)

I think Terry Pratchett got it right with Discworld.

Racism was not a problem on the Discworld, because—what with trolls and dwarfs and so on—speciesism was more interesting. Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green.

Humans in wow have always covered white black and Asian living among each other with no separation, there’s no reason to make up some new kingdom or culture where all the black or Asian people came from there magic mutants who only one step removed from being robots they don’t make any actual sense so they don’t need to explain where different skin colours come from it’s just a result of said magic.

[Makorus]

Wow, I think this might be one of the worst comparisons I have ever seen. I feel the need to congratulate you for coming up with this post.

Imagine comparing the Old Gods to "random Infernals", hilarious.

That's right, Infernals are probably harder to take care off than the Old Gods.

[Ersula]

I have always been confused about the "there doesn't need to be a reason for POC humans" argument. No, I guess there doesn't HAVE to be, but there is definitely some lore potential there that would help flesh out the universe. Much more than the weird "they came from Stranglethorn lol" ideas that have been toyed with by Traveler.

I also don't think that encouraging a lore explanation makes you racist. Maybe DEMANDING one, sure, but imo it would be cool if there were islands and areas of Azeroth where asian and black humans came from.

It also doesn't have to be "black people come from wow africa asian people come from wow asia" if people are scared of that. Pandaria already nipped the latter in the bud unless the new scare is WoW Japan (people seem insistent this will never happen because China but idk)

You know how most titan-forged in Northrend are made from black rock? And then most that come from the main landmasses are light-colored rock? There you go.

[Makabreska]

Ok, raid testing starts this week.

3-4 bosses tested instead of normal 2 each evening. They speed things up.

[FossilFree]

Race is actually a meaningless pseudoscientific concept irl. It's no different than other 19th century quackery like phrenology, where the shape of your skull somehow dictates your behavior. In fact, the idea of "race" comes directly from phrenology (which is now seen in the same way as astrology, palm reading, tarot, etc.). However, genetic tests show humans just don't fit into neat little boxes that are perfectly separated from each other, with no overlap, where everyone inside a box is exactly the same.

We as a species are actually much more closely related than other species, due to a population bottleneck where we nearly went extinct roughly 50,000 years ago. Having a different body shape or color is next to meaningless when genes say that is your distant cousin. Think of it like this, if a redhead is born into a family of brunettes, is the redhead child a different "race" from their siblings? They technically fit the requirements of a "race," as they have a set of physical traits that are different from others but are shared among redheads. Now expand that idea out across billions of people and across time. Or for another example, how blood type B has origins in Asia. Is every European with type B or AB blood actually an Asian instead of European? At what point do we decide that this is all arbitrary, nitpicking nonsense? We are all just a bunch of mutts in the end. Really, science should cleave nature at its faultlines, not chop it up into boxes of our choosing.

Ethnicities are a reality, but those are a culturally-based social construct centered around language, art, music, religion, etc., not some sort of separate species.