The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Reive]

We had peeps saying "X expansion is a filler/patch" since at least WoD, and you are one of these guys who, for some weird reason, tries to spin every piece of news into "WoW is doomed".

So no, no one normal treats you seriously when you say stuff like that. We saw all kind of doomers all those years, and it simple became boring.

you guys like to treat every form of criticism to the game either as trolling or doomposting. there are other posters in this thread that consider tww lacking in terms of features, so i'm not the only one.

a bunch of passive talents or account wide stuff should not be the main selling points of an expansion.

[Varodoc]

you guys like to treat every form of criticism to the game either as trolling or doomposting. there are other posters in this thread that consider tww lacking in terms of features, so i'm not the only one.

a bunch of passive talents or account wide stuff should not be the main selling points of an expansion.

They can't make new features like they used to in Legion-BfA-Sl or all the casual gamers who are also subscribed to r/Daddit will complain that they don't have the time to engage with the new features because they have to take their three kids to three separate schools and only have one hour to play.

[Teriz]

I see much discussion about the features of DF vs TWW. We can only compare their launch features for now, so let's lay down the facts and conclusions will come by themselves:

DF 10.0 --- TWW 11.0
New talent system --- Hero Talents
Dragonriding --- Dragonriding for (mostly) all mounts
New race --- New allied race
New class --- Delves
Revamped professions --- Warbands
Revamped interface --- New BG
World events (hunts, iskaara cooking...) --- New ones?

I guess that some of these cannot be considered full features, but more or less they cover every new element.

1. The hero talents are an expansion of the existing talent system introduced in DF. I wouldn't consider that a new feature either. We were going to get 10 additional talent points anyway, Blizzard simply found a new way to implement those 10 additional talents. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, but considering it on par with a brand new talent system is ridiculous.

2.Dragonriding for additional mounts was implemented in Dragonflight. It's not a new feature, but instead a continuation of something we were already getting.

3. An allied race is simply not comparable to a completely new race. Earthen are essentially dwarves with a new model and new racials. Dracthyr were a completely new model and unlike any previous class we had. They were also the first new race completely attached to a new class.

4. Comparing Delves to a new class is laughable. Delves are essentially Scenarios 2.0.

5. I'll give you Warbands as a legitimate new feature.

In the end, the point still stands; TWW is lacking in new features compared to Dragonflight.

Now, for fun, and since we love speculating, let's compare the patch features of DF vs what TWW might bring:

DF patch cycle --- TWW patch cycle
Trading Post --- TW revamp/expanded?
Upgrade gear system revamp --- Archeology revamp?
New spec --- New class? (unlikely)
Follower dungeons --- Follower raids?
Plunderstorm --- New PvP event?
WoW Remix --- TBC Remix?
--- New allied race/s?
--- Evergreen Brawler's Guild

DF also added new class/race combos and several Heritage Questlines, new zones, new raids, a megadungeon, new world events... but these are things that we would expect and not new features. I believe that we will get more from TWW, and if Delves work well and the story is better than DF's (which is not hard), I am positive that TWW will be more enjoyable than DF.

We'll see. I'm not all that hopeful. A new class released mid-expansion would help a ton.

[Varodoc]

5. I'll give you Warbands as a legitimate new feature.

Can you elaborate on this? Isn't Warbands just QoL changes and a new char selection screen?

How is any of this "new feature" instead of just nice QoL bonuses?

Warband-wide progress for many reputations
Clarifying and streamlining which achievements are part of a character's progression, and what are part of the players
Sharing flight path knowledge across all characters
The ability to transfer currencies between characters in the user interface, without the need for intermediary items
The introduction of the Warband bank interface
The introduction of Warbound until Equipped (WuE) gear
The ability for characters to obtain transmogrification appearances regardless of their armor type[1]

This all just seems like a bunch of nice QoL changes that would be included in a x.1.5 patch.

[Marlamin]

Expansions just being new content and not bringing completely new features every time is... fine I think? Like, don't get me wrong, I absolutely love figuring out/digging into new features but I'm not sure it's healthy for the game if they just keep pumping out new features, especially if it creates a bigger load for maintaining them in the future, which already shows its face every time when they do add a new feature either having to disable it in old content entirely or having to add workarounds.

Almost everything in TWW feels like building on top of and refining existing features to me and I'm fine with that. WoW is an old game, innovating is great but sitting the hell down every now and then while 'feature teams' (this doesn't actually exist, but easier to reference) work on stuff more in the future (which they are) isn't a bad thing.

[Eeram]

Yeah, ima keep it 100% I don’t think every expansion NEEDS to have a ton of new features now being honest tho I don’t really see any new feature other then delves I guess. But I agree with what Mr.Parrot said. Also didn’t someone can’t remember what person said it but someone from blizzard said that midnight would be the expansion with some really great features so maybe they went lack luster here to give the midnight ones more time?

[Raetary]

They are continuing to build out wows core gameplay foundation going forward.

DF revamped professions, world content and reps.
TWW adds another endgame pillar aimed at solo and world content players, adds a more approachable and long term talent progression system as well as enacts their changed design philosophy on stuff being account bound.

As well as more races and expanding Skyriding.

I get that there is no major shiny thing that people can point to and yell out in excitement, but i don't think the expansion necessarily needs it either.
They should not add big features for the sake of marketing.

[Teriz]

Expansions just being new content and not bringing completely new features every time is... fine I think? Like, don't get me wrong, I absolutely love figuring out/digging into new features but I'm not sure it's healthy for the game if they just keep pumping out new features, especially if it creates a bigger load for maintaining them in the future, which already shows its face every time when they do add a new feature either having to disable it in old content entirely or having to add workarounds.

Almost everything in TWW feels like building on top of and refining existing features to me and I'm fine with that. WoW is an old game, innovating is great but sitting the hell down every now and then while 'feature teams' (this doesn't actually exist, but easier to reference) work on stuff more in the future (which they are) isn't a bad thing.

They are continuing to build out wows core gameplay foundation going forward.

DF revamped professions, world content and reps.
TWW adds another endgame pillar aimed at solo and world content players, adds a more approachable and long term talent progression system as well as enacts their changed design philosophy on stuff being account bound.

As well as more races and expanding Skyriding.

I get that there is no major shiny thing that people can point to and yell out in excitement, but i don't think the expansion necessarily needs it either.
They should not add big features for the sake of marketing.

Okay, but we couldn't at least get 2 new races, or 4 ARs like we got in BFA?

Sorry, but TWW seems like Blizzard is phoning it in and riding on DF's accomplishments. Maybe we'll get some insane new stuff over the course of the expansion, but after DF, this just seems like a downgrade.

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Can you elaborate on this? Isn't Warbands just QoL changes and a new char selection screen?

How is any of this "new feature" instead of just nice QoL bonuses?

This all just seems like a bunch of nice QoL changes that would be included in a x.1.5 patch.

Hmm, good point. I guess even Warbands aren't anything to write home about either.

[Marlamin]

Okay, but we couldn't at least get 2 new races, or 4 ARs like we got in BFA?

Sorry, but TWW seems like Blizzard is phoning it in and riding on DF's accomplishments. Maybe we'll get some insane new stuff over the course of the expansion, but after DF, this just seems like a downgrade.

You're basically saying "okay, but I disagree" which is fine. I personally wouldn't care for another race, we're already getting another subrace as it is which hype seems pretty low for in the circles I'm in. I wouldn't be surprised if the Harronir become available as AR during the expansion, but the same goes for some of the DF races (or SL) which hasn't happened.

EDIT: I'm not even sure if we're going to be getting load of "insane new stuff" throughout TWW. There's some stuff coming we've seen hints of publicly and privately, but TWW definitely seems very content and QoL focused, which personally I don't mind. My priorities have never been new races/classes though, so we probably just differ there.

[Jastall]

be honest with yourself, isn't what i said at least partially true? tww has 4 major features and 3 out of 4 could have been part of a normal patch.

And?

What was Mists's big new feature? A class, yes, and a race, both of which are among the lowest played of their category. Scenarios which they jettisoned before the xpack was out, even if the tech is now only mostly for solo content. And crossrealm which many would argue has done more harm than good but w/e. That's not a Legion tier feature list, yet it's still a very popular expansion due to its quality and great support.

Hell take beloved Wrath. It added Death Knights, mounted combat and, uh, that's kind of it on launch. Post launch it added LFG dungeons I suppose but launch wise Wrath wasn't anything too special.

Personally I'm totally fine with Blizzard using expansions to mostly refine the game's core and not redefine everything and add systems on top of other gratuitous systems for the mere sake of padding the feature list. It worked out great for Dragonflight gameplay wise so I'd let them keep at it.

[Teriz]

You're basically saying "okay, but I disagree" which is fine. I personally wouldn't care for another race, we're already getting another subrace as it is which hype seems pretty low for in the circles I'm in. I wouldn't be surprised if the Harronir become available as AR during the expansion, but the same goes for some of the DF races (or SL) which hasn't happened.

I'm saying that maybe we don't need the number of new features we got in DF, but getting a single AR is pathetic in comparison to what we've gotten in previous expansions.

[Marlamin]

I'm saying that maybe we don't need the number of new features we got in DF, but getting a single AR is pathetic in comparison to what we've gotten in previous expansions.

And that's a perfectly fine opinion to have, I just don't share it as I don't really care for new races or classes personally. I won't judge TWW on that in the slightest (nor have I judged it yet as I've actually not played through Beta this time around).

[Teriz]

And?

What was Mists's big new feature? A class, yes, and a race, both of which are among the lowest played of their category. Scenarios which they jettisoned before the xpack was out, even if the tech is now only mostly for solo content. And crossrealm which many would argue has done more harm than good but w/e. That's not a Legion tier feature list, yet it's still a very popular expansion due to its quality and great support.

Hell take beloved Wrath. It added Death Knights, mounted combat and, uh, that's kind of it on launch. Post launch it added LFG dungeons I suppose but launch wise Wrath wasn't anything too special.

Personally I'm totally fine with Blizzard using expansions to mostly refine the game's core and not redefine everything and add systems on top of other gratuitous systems for the mere sake of padding the feature list. It worked out great for Dragonflight gameplay wise so I'd let them keep at it.

Uh, new classes and races are something special, even if you don't play them. New classes completely alter the way the game is played, even for people not playing the new class themselves.

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And that's a perfectly fine opinion to have, I just don't share it as I don't really care for new races or classes personally. I won't judge TWW on that in the slightest (nor have I judged it yet as I've actually not played through Beta this time around).

How is saying that getting 2 completely new races (or a new class) is a bigger feature to the game than a single AR an opinion?

[Marlamin]

How is saying that getting 2 completely new races is a bigger feature to the game than a single AR an opinion?

You brought up the races in the first place as an example of judging an expansions lacklusterness, that is an opinion. I personally do not care for that, you do, that's fine.

[Teriz]

You brought up the races in the first place as an example of judging an expansions lacklusterness, that is an opinion. I personally do not care for that, you do, that's fine.

So is it fair to say that a single AR as an expansion feature is less effort than 2 new races as an expansion feature?

[Marlamin]

So is it fair to say that a single AR as an expansion feature is less effort than 2 new races as an expansion feature? Yes or no?

I don't think that's something up for debate? Obviously it is less effort?

Do I judge an expansions lacklusterness on that? No, I don't care for it. I do not see the point you're trying to make here.

All I'm saying and have been saying is, TWW doesn't need that to be good in my opinion. I don't know if it is yet, but I don't think another race would make me swing either way.

[Teriz]

I don't think that's something up for debate? Obviously it is less effort?

Do I judge an expansions lacklusterness on that? No, I don't care for it. I do not see the point you're trying to make here.

All I'm saying and have been saying is, TWW doesn't need that to be good in my opinion. I don't know if it is yet, but I don't think another race would make me swing either way.

Fair enough. I'm also hoping for a good expansion, but the lack of new features simply has me concerned. Hopefully we'll get more features as the expansion rolls on.

[Cheezits]

So is it fair to say that a single AR as an expansion feature is less effort than 2 new races as an expansion feature?

It is less effort, but we have seen things that take a lot of effort (Pandaren, Kul Tiran, Dracthyr) be very unpopular, so unpopular in fact that people to this day lie or are mistaken about how much effort went into Kul Tirans to downplay them.

It doesn't matter how much effort is put into an expansion feature if said feature isn't liked. Which is why they aren't putting that much energy into races right now.

I don't expect any more features for TWW besides Harronir, who will have crazy druid forms, Brawlers Guild introduced in an evergreen form, and maybe Earthen druids.

[Reive]

working on the core aspects of the game is fine and not every expansion should have something groundbreaking, but it has become a habit for blizzard to sell qol stuff as expansion features. even dragonflight was like this. evokers and dragonriding aside, the rest of the features were talents rework, ui and profession changes. those things are fine but they don't really have that much of a staying power. no one is going to care about the ui rework 1 week into the new expansion.

another problem i see with tww specifically, and that not enough people talk about, is that the campaign is super short. for an expansion that should focus a lot on the story, isn't that kinda weird? either they're saving most things for midnight or we're getting close to scam levels with blizzard.

[micwini]

Expansions are like class rotations. You have builders and spenders.
DF and TWW are builders. DF from a more base standpoint and TWW from an account-wide standpoint + adding a third pillar of gameplay.

Midnight and TLT are going to be spenders. Socks off lads.