The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Santandame]

Yeah, remember micro-holidays? The things were someone at Blizzard really thought people would do stuff in WoW without rewards .... and to this day the only micro-holidays I see people talking about are the ones with the tiniest bit of reward (wanderers festival for the pet and the quiraji holiday because you can run aq20 and aq40 with an alt and get some easy xp there lol). All the others were literally a waste of time that no one cares about.

Disagree with micro holidays. They add some much needed flavour to the world. Even the ones that didn’t have rewards, I’d check out at least once. I’d like to see more of them.

I’m all for as much content, meaningful or trivial, as possible in the old world.

Add world quests to EK/Kalimdor, give us soup style events, micro holidays, expanded time walking etc. They are so wasted currently.

[Teriz]

What? No, that has nothing to do with the issue at all. Sure, I'm considering making a Mage or Warlock Dracthyr when that happens, but I still wouldn't be able to play an Evoker without being forced to use a clown suit in combat.

I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I actually like the dragon form in theory, and I'm fine with the idea behind the barber shop armor. But when you can't even make it match well with the gear that's made specifically for Evokers, it's clear that the current implementation isn't good enough.

I don't know how difficult it'd be to implement, but I think the best way to address this would be to split the Armor Color choice into three color options, so you can choose your own color for each part of the armor instead of picking a premade combination. That way you could just create a mix to fit any set, like- for an example that annoyed me personally a lot- you could choose green and bronze instead of green and silver, so it would actually match the Heroic Amirdrassil set.

It'd also be amazing if they added more unlockable barbershop armor options over time, but I don't see that happening, at least not frequently. It would also help if they let you choose different transmogs for each form. Regardless, the current implementation definitely isn't adequate- it makes it difficult to enjoy a class that I otherwise liked.

You're welcome to that opinion. The point behind this entire discussion though was that even if you're personally not playing the new class, new classes affect the game in a variety of ways. The lack of a new class is definitely a lack of a major new feature for the game. Are they always required? No, but if you're not adding something like a new class, some other new features should be in place to pick up the slack. I'm not seeing that in TWW.

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I actually like Earthen and I’m glad they’re being included. I will play one.

However, anyone arguing that they aren’t a low effort inclusion are just being disingenuous. Just Earthen alone as an allied race was completely underwhelming at launch.

Now if Blizzard had gone down a similar route for allied races in TWW as they did with BfA and we got Earthen, Harronir, and Ascended Nerubians with new customisation options for older races such as Half Elves, skinny humans and some other blatant free wins then that would have been a lot more palatable.

Exactly. It's actually shocking that Harronir and Nerubians haven't already been announced as ARs.

[Ersula]

Exactly. It's actually shocking that Harronir and Nerubians haven't already been announced as ARs.

It's partially that "keep everything secret" mentality Holly Longdale has, partly that the Harronir barely exist in the launch storyline despite being in trailers, and partly sometimes an expansion features a race that for every reason should have been an allied race (Venthyr, Rajani, Tuskaar) but they apparently forget & we never get them.

[Kiivar86]

It has been a while but I don't recall them revealing every single allied race at the get-go, just the initial wave of them. So I wouldn't be surprised by them not announcing others right now too.

Like, that'd be like them going "Vulpera will be an allied race!" before the launch of BfA and most people being "...who?"

Let's have them be introduced first, eh?

[Santandame]

It's partially that "keep everything secret" mentality Holly Longdale has, partly that the Harronir barely exist in the launch storyline despite being in trailers, and partly sometimes an expansion features a race that for every reason should have been an allied race (Venthyr, Rajani, Tuskaar) but they apparently forget & we never get them.

There are so many free wins that Blizzard could have implemented in previous expansions with Allied Races.

8.3 in BfA should have brought the Rajani Mogu at the very least. They’re a pretty highly requested race who would have given something different to the Horde had they been added. There’s clear, distinguished female models and they had a built in “capital” with pretty much anywhere in the Vale from Mogu’shan Palace to the Guo-Lai Halls.

Dragonflight has multiple to choose from in regards to Tuskaar, Gnolls and Drakonids. Centaur too, possibly though I’m not sure about the physics but Dracthyr I suppose throw that argument out of the window.

The Shadowlands races I’m iffy about due to lore reasons, but I’m not a WoW lore head so I will always opt for the rule of cool over sensibilities within the lore so I’d have been all for Kyrian & Venthyr being added.

I was of the belief that the Allied Race system was going to be a a system that Blizzard would add to with each expansion and I find it perplexing that it was abandoned for so long with the first return we get to it years later being the Earthen of all things.

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It has been a while but I don't recall them revealing every single allied race at the get-go, just the initial wave of them. So I wouldn't be surprised by them not announcing others right now too.

Like, that'd be like them going "Vulpera will be an allied race!" before the launch of BfA and most people being "...who?"

Let's have them be introduced first, eh?

Well, at BfA announcement we got Lightforged, Dark Irons, Void Elves, Highmountain, Nightborne and Zandalari announced. Prior to launch, Mag’har were also announced with the knowledge that Zandalari were being pushed back and we’d be getting Kul Tirans with them. So before the expansion even launched that’s 8 races we knew we were getting.

I’m all for the Earthen being included as an allied race, I may even main one. But you can’t deny Earthen of all races as the sole announced race is a completely tepid announcement. If Harronir and the Nerubians are intended to be playable, then there’s no negative to Blizzard saying something like they previously would with something along the lines of “ deep below Khaz Algar, we meet the primal, nature affiliated Harronir, the missing link between the Trolls and Elves, once we gain their trust, they’ll join us in return.” And something similar with liberating the Nerubians. It would have created far more hype as evidenced by the thread discussing this.

It’s not like the Harronir are intended to be a mystery. They’re in the cgi trailer with their presumed leader being one of the primary characters of the story.

Blizzard announcing the Vulpera as a playable allied race and the fans going “…who?” is no different to Blizzard announcing the Draenei, Pandaren and Dracthyr with the fans not knowing who or what they are.

[Makorus]

The Earthen are the only race we probably help and deal with in the launch window though.

It literally wouldn't make sense to have any other Allied Race yet. We don't really liberate or help the Nerubians until after the raid, and we barely interact with the Harronir.

Obviously Harronir are going to be an Allied Race, I still am not sold on Nerubians, but even if they were, it wouldn't be at launch.

They never said there wouldn't be any more Allied Races, just that "there is nothing more to announce".

[Ersula]

The Earthen are the only race we probably help and deal with in the launch window though.

It literally wouldn't make sense to have any other Allied Race yet. We don't really liberate or help the Nerubians until after the raid, and we barely interact with the Harronir.

Obviously Harronir are going to be an Allied Race, I still am not sold on Nerubians, but even if they were, it wouldn't be at launch.

They never said there wouldn't be any more Allied Races, just that "there is nothing more to announce".

That's true. They're probably responding to the negative reaction to half the announced Allied races in BFA not being accessible for a considerable amount of time after launch. I still think if they were planning more allied races they should tell you at the expansion announcement: People have to plan their alts around new races.

[Lady Atia]

That's true. They're probably responding to the negative reaction to half the announced Allied races in BFA not being accessible for a considerable amount of time after launch. I still think if they were planning more allied races they should tell you at the expansion announcement: People have to plan their alts around new races.

Well, they prolly still think the tiny mini-patches feel bigger if they just don't tell us beforehand what's coming. I'm still waiting to see if the currently still missing mass of new mounts on the beta get turned into launch content or if they will go the Dragonflight route again of spreading them out over the whole thing instead of actually giving us new models each patch (the Dream patch atleast made up for it but besides that, the only new models were the ugly rays from Zaralek lol).

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Talking about mounts - it seems like we get a recolour of the raid mounts from a ... world ... quest?



I'm so glad they don't give us a way to get gladiator mounts or their recolours because they have to stay unique, riiiight?

Like, I'm like the fact they give us the recolour but please, free glad mounts too lol.

[Makorus]

That's true. They're probably responding to the negative reaction to half the announced Allied races in BFA not being accessible for a considerable amount of time after launch. I still think if they were planning more allied races they should tell you at the expansion announcement: People have to plan their alts around new races.

I think they mishandled both Zandalari, by announcing them so early and then not releasing them until 8.1 (8.1.5?) and also the Vulpera, by having them be allied to us but not actually making them an Allied Race until 8.3.

I am fairly sure the way they are handling this is a direct response to that.

[Lady Atia]

I think they mishandled both Zandalari, by announcing them so early and then not releasing them until 8.1 (8.1.5?) and also the Vulpera, by having them be allied to us but not actually making them an Allied Race until 8.3.

I am fairly sure the way they are handling this is a direct response to that.

I don't know, I would rather take the announcement of 6-8 races, knowing that we get them spread out over the expansion rather than one .... with more surprise races who may or may not come later. It's literally the opposite of what I want from mounts (although I just want 30-50 mounts per patch tbh haha but still, having NEW unseen mounts every patch is what hypes).

[Makabreska]

New short story:

https://www.wowhead.com/news/the-lil...dragran-343096

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Off-topic from current conversation: has anybody been testing all of the Hero Talent specs to the point of identifying support roles?

Some people in the beta were musing that the "Lightsmith" hero talents for paladins will end up being a strong support role in the expansion. I would hope Blizzard has been trying to come up with new ideas for support-like play styles.

[Makorus]

Off-topic from current conversation: has anybody been testing all of the Hero Talent specs to the point of identifying support roles?

Some people in the beta were musing that the "Lightsmith" hero talents for paladins will end up being a strong support role in the expansion. I would hope Blizzard has been trying to come up with new ideas for support-like play styles.

Lightsmith is the only one that remotely goes into that direction, and I wouldn't really call it support. You got a damage/healing buff and a shield that cycle between each other when you use the ability. You can put it on yourself, in which case another copy goes on a random person, or you can put it on someone else, in which case a copy goes on you. There's also a choice node that makes it so there is a chance an arnament goes on someone when you use a Holy Power ability. That's the extent of the supporting.

Oracle used to be about it by changing how Power Infusion works but they dropped that.

[Kiivar86]

Well, at BfA announcement we got Lightforged, Dark Irons, Void Elves, Highmountain, Nightborne and Zandalari announced. Prior to launch, Mag’har were also announced with the knowledge that Zandalari were being pushed back and we’d be getting Kul Tirans with them. So before the expansion even launched that’s 8 races we knew we were getting.

I’m all for the Earthen being included as an allied race, I may even main one. But you can’t deny Earthen of all races as the sole announced race is a completely tepid announcement. If Harronir and the Nerubians are intended to be playable, then there’s no negative to Blizzard saying something like they previously would with something along the lines of “ deep below Khaz Algar, we meet the primal, nature affiliated Harronir, the missing link between the Trolls and Elves, once we gain their trust, they’ll join us in return.” And something similar with liberating the Nerubians. It would have created far more hype as evidenced by the thread discussing this.

It’s not like the Harronir are intended to be a mystery. They’re in the cgi trailer with their presumed leader being one of the primary characters of the story.

Blizzard announcing the Vulpera as a playable allied race and the fans going “…who?” is no different to Blizzard announcing the Draenei, Pandaren and Dracthyr with the fans not knowing who or what they are.

I'll definitely agree to the Earthen's reception being tepid at best. I am a bit more interested in them now than I had been, but still mildly warm at best. I'll make an alt to be sure.

I dunno, I just don't find myself bothered much by the lack of other ARs teased or announced. May be due to my having written off ARs entirely as a BfA thing, so any more after that is good (enough) to me. Tells me there will be more, surely, so I'm not bothered by it (aside from relatively "meh" ness to the Earthen).

[Foolicious]

Off-topic from current conversation: has anybody been testing all of the Hero Talent specs to the point of identifying support roles?

Some people in the beta were musing that the "Lightsmith" hero talents for paladins will end up being a strong support role in the expansion. I would hope Blizzard has been trying to come up with new ideas for support-like play styles.

There have been some ideas, but most didn't make it. Oracle leaned heavy in the support role, but the playstyle was horrible and they changed it to personal benefit only pretty quick. I also remember someone at blizzard say that some classes like monk could expect a support playstyle because the class fantasy leaves room for that. But they didn't get anything.

There are a few talents that buff allys. Like chronowarden and scalecommander have a slight damage procc in some situations, mountain thane has a magic absorb shield for allies. But nothing that i would classify as a support role.

[Ersula]

Off-topic from current conversation: has anybody been testing all of the Hero Talent specs to the point of identifying support roles?

Some people in the beta were musing that the "Lightsmith" hero talents for paladins will end up being a strong support role in the expansion. I would hope Blizzard has been trying to come up with new ideas for support-like play styles.

Oracle Priest was supposed to be a support healer, but now it revolves around personal cooldowns because people complained. Lightsmith has support mechanics but people are also complaining about it. Both have these active buff abilities with long cooldowns (much longer than Augmentation's Prescience) that rotate into other abilities.

What's worse is Blizzard seems fine with removing the support elements but keeps the "rotating cooldown" abilities that no-one enjoys. Everyone needs to tell Blizzard right now that the Aura of Seasons style rotating cast abilities are horrible. People use their cooldowns based on the situation, so forcing you to rotate an ability in order to anticipate a situation before it happens is not how people play wow. Nobody likes this.

There is a talent to separate the Lightsmith buffs into separate buttons, but it's still weird they intentionally reduced the number of buttons in Paladin's active rotation, but it still has more buttons than other healers, for example, Holy Paladin has 50% more buttons in its active rotation than Disc Priest.

Stranger still is they wanted Mistweaver & Holy Paladin to be able to build into a ranged healer or a melee healer, but while Mistweaver in its current state does this successfully, they only half-committed to it for Holy Paladin so despite having a talent that removes the necessary for melee combat entirely, both of Holy Paladin's hero talent options are melee-centric.

[Makorus]

Stranger still is they wanted Mistweaver & Holy Paladin to be able to build into a ranged healer or a melee healer, but while Mistweaver in its current state does this successfully, they only half-committed to it for Holy Paladin so despite having a talent that removes the necessary for melee combat entirely, both of Holy Paladin's hero talent options are melee-centric.

How are Lightsmith or the other one melee-centric?

[Ersula]

How are Lightsmith or the other one melee-centric?

Lightsmith has a ton of melee talents & if you want to do Herald of the Sun effectively you should be doing more damage than just holy shock & judgement

[Teriz]

I'll definitely agree to the Earthen's reception being tepid at best. I am a bit more interested in them now than I had been, but still mildly warm at best. I'll make an alt to be sure.

I dunno, I just don't find myself bothered much by the lack of other ARs teased or announced. May be due to my having written off ARs entirely as a BfA thing, so any more after that is good (enough) to me. Tells me there will be more, surely, so I'm not bothered by it (aside from relatively "meh" ness to the Earthen).

It's simply the fact that us only having Earthen to be a known AR at this point is a bit troubling, considering that at this point before BFA's release we had multiple upcoming ARs and a few already playable.

Again, a massive downgrade from previous expansions. Hopefully the features we gain in patches makes up for it.

[micwini]

I feel like only having Earthen on launch makes it more likely to get other AR's in patches.
Also: Earthen one of the most requested races? omega fucking lul.

Have never ever seen anyone ask for them. Ogres, ethereals, arakkoa are way higher on that list.

Expectations: Harronir
Reality: Mechagoblins (undermine)