The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Murlocos]

Yeah you are right. It was a good read but Dagran was just too good at everything. I like the character and he might even have potential to lead the Alliance after Anduin is gone, but they have to be careful not to make him a Mary Sue character.

I thought the story balanced it well. He was self-absorbed in giving an explanation and condemnation simultaneously, and both he and Moira acknowledge afterward that this situation was suited to his specialties, but he can't count on that being the case in the future. I much prefer this characterization of Dagran of someone who has the raw talent for leadership but is going to struggle with fitting the cultural expectations of his people, compared to yet another reluctant leader who wins everyone over by the sheer earnestness and goodness of their heart.

I think this is one of the best stories they've put out in years precisely because it's grounded in the political realities of the world, placing the characters inside them rather than above them. Rather than just being a quick 30-page resolution where all the clans admit Dagran is the greatest and worthy to rule them with Moira telling us how happy she is, it's a short-term problem solved with the future uncertain and Moira lamenting time slipping away as she watches her son grow into the leader that she was never allowed to be. I want to see more of these characters, which you can glean from my posting history is not often the case.

[Teriz]

Still strange to me.. they took one no one asked for and if Horronir is happening.. is also something no one asked for. I also dont get the excitement over them.. more of the same model sydrom.

With so many option, that have been requested.. No one really understands these choices. I one one find it the nost boring option they could come up with. I alao dont guve a flying f about these weird Horronir models. Like I just dont care. Where are the Ogres, Vrykul or Arrakoa or what ever. Jesus..

Which makes the choice to not allow the Evolved Nerubians to be playable a baffling one. It’s not like they would have armor issues anymore problematic than the Dracthyr, and quite a few players were excited about the prospect of playing one.

Maybe they’re planning to make the Nerubians playable in Midnight? At least they’d be a new race and not an allied one.

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You're one to talk. What's your excuse for SL then? And why are you basing all of your expectations on BFA?

Because BFA was the last expansion to offer ARs. So again, the current expansion offering ARs should at least be on par with the previous one that offered the feature.

Also isn’t SL universally panned as one of WoW’s worst expansions?

[Sondrelk]

My one critic is that they wrote him to be a savant.

Which could work, but i don't think they established any noticeable inability to not make him feel too exceptional in the long term.

He is definitely a bit too good. Though the story was specifically about his one area of expertise, and they did at least show that he was about to have a major nerd blowout by going into the intricacies of dwarf Rune linguistics, so he isn't completely flawless.

Hopefully TWW let's him be even more of a nerd, as that is something we don't really see in WoW much.

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I thought the story balanced it well. He was self-absorbed in giving an explanation and condemnation simultaneously, and both he and Moira acknowledge afterward that this situation was suited to his specialties, but he can't count on that being the case in the future. I much prefer this characterization of Dagran of someone who has the raw talent for leadership but is going to struggle with fitting the cultural expectations of his people, compared to yet another reluctant leader who wins everyone over by the sheer earnestness and goodness of their heart.

I think this is one of the best stories they've put out in years precisely because it's grounded in the political realities of the world, placing the characters inside them rather than above them. Rather than just being a quick 30-page resolution where all the clans admit Dagran is the greatest and worthy to rule them with Moira telling us how happy she is, it's a short-term problem solved with the future uncertain and Moira lamenting time slipping away as she watches her son grow into the leader that she was never allowed to be. I want to see more of these characters, which you can glean from my posting history is not often the case.

The part where Dagran is about to go on a nerd rant about linguistics felt very real at least.

I very much enjoyed how Moira is coming to terms with how in trying to avoid the issues Magni made with her, she is about to make the exact same issue with Dagran from the opposite end. Was nice to see her very realistically struggle with the knowledge that she is far more like Magni than she realized in terms of being overprotective.

[Reive]

Still strange to me.. they took one no one asked for and if Horronir is happening.. is also something no one asked for. I also dont get the excitement over them.. more of the same model sydrom.

With so many option, that have been requested.. No one really understands these choices, kinda clear after many threads. I one one find it the most boring option they could come up with. I also dont give a flying f about these weird Horronir models. Like I just dont care. Where are the Ogres, Vrykul or Arrakoa or what ever.. stuff that people actually want.

I have literally seen one person here saying hes fine with Earthrn and will like make one.. literally one person lol.

they pick races where they can reuse existing skeletons and that also make "sense" for the context of the new expansion. Ogres, nagas, arrakoas, sethrak etc all require a new skeleton

[huth]

Because BFA was the last expansion to offer ARs. So again, the current expansion offering ARs should at least be on par with the previous one that offered the feature.

Also isn’t SL universally panned as one of WoW’s worst expansions?

It was up till now the only one. So there's no established rules or pattern for it you could really base anything on.

[Teriz]

It was up till now the only one. So there's no established rules or pattern for it you could really base anything on.

Uh no, BFA set the standard. TWW is not meeting that standard. That’s the problem.

[Reive]

i think they're going to add new allied races in expansions that don't bring a new class.

[Teriz]

i think they're going to add new allied races in expansions that don't bring a new class.

They used to add 2 actual new races when we didn’t get a new class. The reason we got 10 ARs in BFA is because Blizzard understood that ARs weren’t truly new races.

[Santandame]

I have literally seen one person here saying hes fine with Earthrn and will like make one.. literally one person lol.

That'll be me. I think they look fine. I also think announcing them as the lone AR was a completely daft decision. The revisionist history from a few pages back claiming Earthen to be a fan favourite, much requested race since Wrath was mind boggling.

Regardless, we should have had a couple AR's announced for launch at the very least. Considering Harronir are being pushed as one of the main races of the expansion if the trailer is any indication, then they should have been more present in the levelling campaign where they'd have been a lot more justified as a launch ready AR. Aside form all that, we should have got more character customisation for the other races as a selling point and I'm firmly of the belief that we should have gotten Tuskarr and Drakonids in a DF epilogue.

[Makorus]

Still strange to me.. they took one no one asked for and if Horronir is happening.. is also something no one asked for. I also dont get the excitement over them.. more of the same model sydrom.

With so many option, that have been requested.. No one really understands these choices, kinda clear after many threads. I one one find it the most boring option they could come up with. I also dont give a flying f about these weird Horronir models. Like I just dont care. Where are the Ogres, Vrykul or Arrakoa or what ever.. stuff that people actually want.

I have literally seen one person here saying hes fine with Earthrn and will like make one.. literally one person lol.

Because randomly adding Vrykul or Arrakoa in TWW makes sense?

That's why they are adding Earthen. They didn't have the idea for Earthen as an Allied Race and then made an expansion around it, they had the idea for an expansion with Earthen and then decided that "Hey, we are going to have a lot of customization options anyway because they are the main race this expansion, might as well make them an Allied Race".

People always think "Oh, they added Earthen instead of that race" when that's not the case. The only reason they added Earthen was because it's convenient.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

The part where Dagran is about to go on a nerd rant about linguistics felt very real at least.

We've put the vaccines in the water supply. Our kind are already replacing your world leaders. Make the textures on the thrones better and lower the noise in the courtroom.

[En Sabah Nur]

I have literally seen one person here saying hes fine with Earthrn and will like make one.. literally one person lol.

I'll absolutely make one.

And now you've seen two.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Rather than just being a quick 30-page resolution where all the clans admit Dagran is the greatest and worthy to rule them with Moira telling us how happy she is, it's a short-term problem solved with the future uncertain and Moira lamenting time slipping away as she watches her son grow into the leader that she was never allowed to be. I want to see more of these characters, which you can glean from my posting history is not often the case.

Not bothered to read it, but if your report is accurate that's a significant step up for Blizzad. If they're willing to start giving characters tangible political hurdles beyond not being beloved with cultlike devotion by the Uber-Jailer, the giant flying nipple who was actually behind everything and Count Schemington, minor cloth exporter and owner of an undead-infested chunk of Duskwood nobody lives in, they might even dare to give them tangible humanity.

[Sondrelk]

We've put the vaccines in the water supply. Our kind are already replacing your world leaders. Make the textures on the thrones better and lower the noise in the courtroom.

Back to /pol/ with you!

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Back to /pol/ with you!

Try to abate it all you'd like, Imperium Aspergum will soon rise. My people will have their order.

[Nightshade711]

You seriously need this explained to you?

Nice cop-out.

Yes, an entire roster of races that were available in the previous expansion. Giving a player less incentive to check out the new expansion.

If a player’s only incentive to check out an expansion is a race, they’re probably not going to stick around that long anyways. Races typically have a pretty minimal impact on gameplay, at most offering a single new button press.

[Makabreska]

Well, hope we got new build today, because race/class discussions with Mr T tend to last many pages. :v

[Reive]

If a player’s only incentive to check out an expansion is a race, they’re probably not going to stick around that long anyways. Races typically have a pretty minimal impact on gameplay, at most offering a single new button press.

you underestimate the potential of a popular allied race lol. people might check the expansion only for that and then stick around for different reasons.

[Lady Atia]

Nice cop-out.


If a player’s only incentive to check out an expansion is a race, they’re probably not going to stick around that long anyways. Races typically have a pretty minimal impact on gameplay, at most offering a single new button press.

Ok if you think so. I for sure like to level alts of different race/class combos because for me, that feels different enough as I don't need gameplay changes, just cosmetical ones. It's basically like playing with skins in a moba.

[Foolicious]

A bit too on the nose as far as showing how different from a normal dwarf Dagran is, but definitely a good read.
Can't wait to see more from Dagran. Can't imagine he will be important in Midnight, but going back to Ulduar in TLT should give some good opportunities for his character to really blossom into a leader, assuming that doesn't happen in TWW.

My favorite short story so far is still the Anduin one though. I really felt for Anduin and his internal struggle to call upon the light shen it was most needed.

Was a good story, but detroyed my hopes dagran will turn out like his famous ancestors one day.

Well, hope we got new build today, because race/class discussions with Mr T tend to last many pages. :v

I don't think we will get one today. They pushed back the warband conversion testing to today so they probably concentrate on this first. It would be nice if we get both though