1. #74501
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I’d disagree that they should be split into there own culture as there’s no reason for wow humans to split along skin colour, but ya I wouldn’t disagree that SW is lacking in even if there have always been some Asian and black people in it.
    Isn't the canonical stormwind 3 times larger than the one we see in game. There's supposed to be a huge residential area to the northwest of the main city.

  2. #74502
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    31,815
    Quote Originally Posted by Timester View Post
    Except the Bilgewater Cartel isn't reclaiming anything. Undermine always has been neutral camp, with both Horde and Alliance ambassadors. The Gazlowe short story pretty much nails it.
    Which is fine. It would still be a substantial amount of lore for one of the playable Horde races and its storyline would no doubt rope in Horde faction leaders like Gazlowe and Thrall. Further when it’s all said and done, a Horde race gets it’s homeland back that it lost way back in Cataclysm.

    Again, Horde content.

  3. #74503
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Which is fine. It would still be a substantial amount of lore for one of the playable Horde races and its storyline would no doubt rope in Horde faction leaders like Gazlowe and Thrall. Further when it’s all said and done, a Horde race gets it’s homeland back that it lost way back in Cataclysm.

    Again, Horde content.
    Except Undermine was always neutral and still is. And, looking to the development of TWW, any Undermine raid will be a joint Horde/Alliance venture. We can see that with the Earthen training.
    Last edited by Timester; 2024-06-20 at 01:02 PM.

  4. #74504
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Doubtful since we’re still in beta.
    They told us about 10.2's new zone 10 months before it actually came out when it was on the original 2023 roadmap they released over holiday break 2022. 10.0.5 is on the 2024 roadmap & if it included a new zone it would be there.

    (yes return to the forbidden reach is also on the earliest roadmap. but also there is no additional unused zone in the beta like in dragonflight)
    Last edited by Ersula; 2024-06-20 at 01:06 PM.

  5. #74505
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    What twists?

    Blizzard stories NEVER have any twists. Players always assume there are twists, but 99% of the time, players insist there is going to be a twist and instead its just the expected outcome.
    doesnt mean blizz doesnt try to make it a twist
    look at SL
    "anduin wint be evil look at the sylvanas cutscene" anduin attacks archon

    "the guy imprisoned is mysterious"
    literally called out day 1 that he was the missing covenant leader

  6. #74506
    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly Roger View Post
    doesnt mean blizz doesnt try to make it a twist
    look at SL
    "anduin wint be evil look at the sylvanas cutscene" anduin attacks archon

    "the guy imprisoned is mysterious"
    literally called out day 1 that he was the missing covenant leader
    ????????

    That's not twists nor is it Blizzard making it seem like a twist????

    It's the playerbase wanting it to be a twist ("No, it's not actually the Primus, even though it's obviously the Primus!") and then acting like Blizzard reverse-twisted them when it's just... normal writing?

    Not every mystery is a twist.

  7. #74507
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    31,815
    Quote Originally Posted by Timester View Post
    Except Undermine was always neutral and still is. And, looking to the development of TWW, any Undermine raid will be a joint Horde/Alliance venture. We can see that with the Earthen training.
    I’m not seeing how Undermine being neutral changes the fact that it’s still a Goblin city run by Goblins and will be a massive lore dump and storyline for one of the playable Horde races who have connections to that location.

    I mean, Gazlowe himself has neutral leanings.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2024-06-20 at 01:14 PM.

  8. #74508
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I’m not seeing how Undermine being neutral changes the fact that it’s still a Goblin city run by Goblins and will be a massive lore dump and storyline for one of the playable Horde races who have connections to that location.
    So it's going to be a Horde story because Horde races are gonna be there, regardless of the location.

    gee thanks what smart insight.

    Undermine inherently is neutral i.e. not a horde-centric location.

  9. #74509
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    31,815
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    So it's going to be a Horde story because Horde races are gonna be there, regardless of the location.

    gee thanks what smart insight.

    Undermine inherently is neutral i.e. not a horde-centric location.
    Yeah it’s a Horde story because it’s likely to revolve around 2 horde faction leaders; Gazlowe and Gallywix, and give a neglected Horde race some much needed lore and their homeland back.

  10. #74510
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I’m not seeing how Undermine being neutral changes the fact that it’s still a Goblin city run by Goblins and will be a massive lore dump and storyline for one of the playable Horde races who have connections to that location.

    I mean, Gazlowe himself has neutral leanings.
    Is Teldrassil Horde content because the Forsaken now have undead Kaldorei Dark Archers? Is Kul Tiras Horde content because Tandred is Forsaken?

    Blizzard itself is moving away from faction specific lore and you want to make the most neutral place in all Warcraft lore Horde content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah it’s a Horde story because it’s likely to revolve around 2 horde faction leaders; Gazlowe and Gallywix, and give a neglected Horde race some much needed lore and their homeland back.
    Undercity is now Alliance then?

  11. #74511
    This is definitely just pointless arguing on semantics. TWW is not an Alliance-only expansion but many people feel it is an Alliance expansion because the racial aesthetics of the Earthen and Arathi feel more Alliance than Horde.

    How people feel about something is more important than what it canonically is.

    People will 100% feel a Goblin patch is more Horde aligned as Goblins, despite only two cartels being Horde, are a Horde playable race, have historically been associated with the Horde, and appear more often in Horde areas.

  12. #74512
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    26,452
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Isn't the canonical stormwind 3 times larger than the one we see in game. There's supposed to be a huge residential area to the northwest of the main city.
    Every thing is much much larger in canon ya.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  13. #74513
    Legendary! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)╭∩╮
    Posts
    6,752
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If we have a scenario where we depose Gallywix and Gazlowe takes it over, then what’s the difference?
    Has this happened?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I’m not seeing how Undermine being neutral changes the fact that it’s still a Goblin city run by Goblins
    100% of all goblins on Azeroth are not 100% apart of the Horde.
    and will be a massive lore dump and storyline for one of the playable Horde races who have connections to that location.
    Do you have a crystal ball? I'm not sure why you are making arguments with many people, portraying something as a fact, when such details have not happened.

    You should learn to use words like "likelihood"

  14. #74514
    I don't know why people are continuing to harp on factions when there hasn't been a faction specific storyline in the game for nearly 6 years now. The factions serve no purpose in the narrative anymore. If people want to complain that x race is under-represented that's one thing but factions are functionally obsoleted at this point.

    And TWW seems to be doing a pretty good job on expanding upon races which have been neglected for years. Goblins and Dwarves haven't gotten the spotlight since Cataclysm. Nerubians got shafted by Azol'Nerub being cut in WotLk. Even the Arathi storyline offers something totally new for humans. People are better off if you remove looking at the story from lense of Horde/Alliance only.

  15. #74515
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah it’s a Horde story because it’s likely to revolve around 2 horde faction leaders; Gazlowe and Gallywix, and give a neglected Horde race some much needed lore and their homeland back.
    You don't know what it's going to revolve around.

    It could very well be a case of "Oh no, Venture Co. completely took over! We have to stop them!" with a focus on both Gnomes/Goblins equally because they usually share a space. Yeah, the story in your mind that hasn't happened yet is absolutely a Horde scenario.

    But Undermine inherently is not Horde. Undermine has NOTHING to do with the Horde. Just because Goblins are in the Horde doesn't mean a story set in Gadgetzan is Horde, or a story set in Everlook is Horde. The player goblins aren't even from Undermine. (Just to pre-emptively stop a long discussion: I know that Undermine is the capital of Kezan.)

  16. #74516
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    31,815
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    This is definitely just pointless arguing on semantics. TWW is not an Alliance-only expansion but many people feel it is an Alliance expansion because the racial aesthetics of the Earthen and Arathi feel more Alliance than Horde.

    How people feel about something is more important than what it canonically is.

    People will 100% feel a Goblin patch is more Horde aligned as Goblins, despite only two cartels being Horde, are a Horde playable race, have historically been associated with the Horde, and appear more often in Horde areas.
    Exactly. People thinking goblin content involving Horde faction leaders wouldn’t be considered Horde content are being willfully obtuse.

  17. #74517
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Exactly. People thinking goblin content involving Horde faction leaders wouldn’t be considered Horde content are being willfully obtuse.
    I really doubt that Cheezits was agreeing with you, but only him/her can answer.

    And calling the others "obtuse" about a raid scenario and lore situation that only happens in your head is a bit... soul searching.
    Last edited by Timester; 2024-06-20 at 02:46 PM.

  18. #74518
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    31,815
    Quote Originally Posted by Timester View Post
    Is Teldrassil Horde content because the Forsaken now have undead Kaldorei Dark Archers? Is Kul Tiras Horde content because Tandred is Forsaken?
    Teldrassil isn't the homeland of Forsaken, and Goblins living in Undermine aren't default enemies of the Bildgewater Cartel (Horde).

    Terrible comparison.

  19. #74519
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    I don't know why people are continuing to harp on factions when there hasn't been a faction specific storyline in the game for nearly 6 years now. The factions serve no purpose in the narrative anymore. If people want to complain that x race is under-represented that's one thing but factions are functionally obsoleted at this point.

    And TWW seems to be doing a pretty good job on expanding upon races which have been neglected for years. Goblins and Dwarves haven't gotten the spotlight since Cataclysm. Nerubians got shafted by Azol'Nerub being cut in WotLk. Even the Arathi storyline offers something totally new for humans. People are better off if you remove looking at the story from lense of Horde/Alliance only.
    Pretty much.

    Really, the only factions moment I saw in the entire beta so far was the Earthen training, where we get quests from BOTH Alliance and Horde commanders and they bicker about the best army training method.

  20. #74520
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    31,815
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    You don't know what it's going to revolve around.

    It could very well be a case of "Oh no, Venture Co. completely took over! We have to stop them!" with a focus on both Gnomes/Goblins equally because they usually share a space. Yeah, the story in your mind that hasn't happened yet is absolutely a Horde scenario.
    Doubtful, since there's no prominent Gnomes anywhere in sight, and the player, whether alliance or horde is going to be following Gazlowe and (possibly) Thrall to Undermine.

    But Undermine inherently is not Horde. Undermine has NOTHING to do with the Horde. Just because Goblins are in the Horde doesn't mean a story set in Gadgetzan is Horde, or a story set in Everlook is Horde. The player goblins aren't even from Undermine. (Just to pre-emptively stop a long discussion: I know that Undermine is the capital of Kezan.)
    How are they not from Undermine when Undermine is the capital of the area that the player goblin starts in?

    This is the level of obtuse nonsense I'm talking about.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •