The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

Because 2/3 foreshadowed zones (Kezan/Undermine, Silithus) so far are not a part of the island, and the achievement basically spoils there will be at least one explorable area that isn't Khaz Algar.

Everything points to the island essentially being ditched by the time of the finale ala BFA. For better or for worse. The only way that wouldn't happen is if Beledar is the finale or the Rootlands/Elun'ahir is.

Okay but Silithus is actually in a reasonable proximity to Khaz Algar. Undermine isn't. The Kazan loading screen puts it directly north of Pandaria.

So far nothing's controverted my immediate theory that if the additional TWW zones are further down, we're going to hit the tip of the Sargeras' sword by the end of the expansion. That seems like the whole point of this expansion. The sword is going south - southwest & if we go deeper north - northwest the points meet.

[Raetary]

Underground races tend to have underground capitals

They are not an underground species.
Mimiron literally found them around the woods in Storm Peaks when he decided to do his experiments.

After the Sundering the Gobs lived on Kezan, the isle.

The reason why Undermine is underground is because the city is built into the Kaja'mite mines that the Zandalari forced them to mine in.

Even today, except for Undermine itself, every single one of their settlements on Azeroth are regular above-ground cities.
Their main thing is tropical islands and port cities.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

It's totally possible that the final raid of TWW is a void patch/raid, possibly signifying an invasion, which at the end we "lose" and thus begins the Midnight expansion. That would completely support the leaks we're seeing.

I would hope a lead at Blizzard still remembers the Orc fatigue players had after three years of Orcs in a row from SoO through WoD, or the green fire demon fatigure people had after three years of the same in a row from Hellfire through Legion. Hopefully we're not in for three years of purple space magic and tentacles in a row from 11.2 through Midnight.

[Teriz]

Kezan is (was) not underground. Gadgetzan is not underground. Everlook is not underground. No goblin settlement around Azeroth is underground. Except for undermine.

Which is their capital and main city which houses the trade princes and the main hubs for their cartels. Again, if you have an underground capital, you tend to be an underground race.

Plus, again, the goblin race started as a forest species. Goblins are not shown as being adapted to the underground to be considered underground species. Can you give me some actual concrete proof that goblins are considered an underground species aside from your headcanon?

And that lore is a retcon spawned from Chronicles, because the lore behind Undermine predates that lore, and the lore that came right after Undermine stated that the Goblins were slaves to trolls in their mines. It had no mention where they came from, but it was simply assumed that they also lived in the mines and the trolls simply captured and enslaved them. While working in the mines they came across Kaja'mite which made them smart enough to overthrow the trolls and establish their mercantile empire from the very mines they used to be enslaved in.

Before even that, we had Goblins working with Deathwing in his underground locations. It was goblins who originally assembled his armor for example.

Why Blizzard is pushing a forest origin is anyone's guess. I suppose it has something to do with Mimiron and some titan influences. However, even with that being the case, my original point is simply that in fantasy, goblins tend to be an underground race.

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They are not an underground species.
Mimiron literally found them around the woods in Storm Peaks when he decided to do his experiments.

After the Sundering the Gobs lived on Kezan, the isle.

The reason why Undermine is underground is because the city is built into the Kaja'mite mines that the Zandalari forced them to mine in.

Even today, except for Undermine itself, every single one of their settlements on Azeroth are regular above-ground cities.
Their main thing is tropical islands and port cities.

Like I said, most of that lore is a retcon of older Goblin lore.

And again, my original point is simply that in fantasy settings (and in Warcraft) Goblins are portrayed as an underground race. Which likely explains why they're so prevalent in Khaz Algar.

With that said, this isn't really a worthwhile topic to debate, so you and Ielenia are free to have the last word on it.

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I would hope a lead at Blizzard still remembers the Orc fatigue players had after three years of Orcs in a row from SoO through WoD, or the green fire demon fatigure people had after three years of the same in a row from Hellfire through Legion. Hopefully we're not in for three years of purple space magic and tentacles in a row from 11.2 through Midnight.

Unfortunately, it would appear that a vocal contingent are enamored by void stuff and Blizzard is apparently giving them what they want. Thus I'll simply say be prepared for the worst.

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Okay but Silithus is actually in a reasonable proximity to Khaz Algar. Undermine isn't. The Kazan loading screen puts it directly north of Pandaria.

So far nothing's controverted my immediate theory that if the additional TWW zones are further down, we're going to hit the tip of the Sargeras' sword by the end of the expansion. That seems like the whole point of this expansion. The sword is going south - southwest & if we go deeper north - northwest the points meet.

Except the Goblin Raid and a tunnel that leads to Undermine from Khaz Algar which Goblins have apparently been using for years.

In addition, we still have 11.05, 11.0.7, 11.1.5, 11.1.7, 11.2.5, and 11.2.7 to hit Silthius.

[Alanar]

I'll absolutely make one.

And now you've seen two.

well, wow.

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That'll be me. I think they look fine. I also think announcing them as the lone AR was a completely daft decision. The revisionist history from a few pages back claiming Earthen to be a fan favourite, much requested race since Wrath was mind boggling.

Regardless, we should have had a couple AR's announced for launch at the very least. Considering Harronir are being pushed as one of the main races of the expansion if the trailer is any indication, then they should have been more present in the levelling campaign where they'd have been a lot more justified as a launch ready AR. Aside form all that, we should have got more character customisation for the other races as a selling point and I'm firmly of the belief that we should have gotten Tuskarr and Drakonids in a DF epilogue.

Which is my point exactly.

People take ''one'' to literal, but I have never ever seen some one seriously ask for it. Considering we had many fans making threads, including own art or compiled art of a races they want to see. The ones I called out were only a few out of literally many races and.. no Earthen was never among them. Well, opinions I guess, but ye brining back AR system is a given we will see more. I do agree and I was also one of them who would have loved to see Drakonids made it. They are way cooler then .. again what we got. Drakonids were actually asked and bringing them back with an updated model in df, instead we got geckos, that just aren't it imo.

[Khaza-R]

Okay but Silithus is actually in a reasonable proximity to Khaz Algar. Undermine isn't. The Kazan loading screen puts it directly north of Pandaria.

So far nothing's controverted my immediate theory that if the additional TWW zones are further down, we're going to hit the tip of the Sargeras' sword by the end of the expansion. That seems like the whole point of this expansion. The sword is going south - southwest & if we go deeper north - northwest the points meet.

Is this the case though. Because they seem to be roughly the same distance to Dorn.

[Teriz]

Is this the case though. Because they seem to be roughly the same distance to Dorn.

That's interesting. I wonder if we'll see the underwater tunnels of Undermine that were described in the RPG books;

The main centers of population in Undermine are in volcanic caverns beneath Kezan. Secondary island caverns exist farther away, and the goblins have constructed tunnels of thick glass that lead to these smaller areas. Passing through these tubes means walking along the ocean's floor and looking out to see the colorful fish and hungry sharks nearby

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Undermine

They could also do a slightly longer tran system like the one that connects Ironforge to Stormwind.

[Nightshade711]

They called it a new zone on the roadmap and when they announced it.

Factually incorrect.

As I said, the roadmap says “return to the forbidden reach”
Not “new zone: forbidden reach”

[Alanar]

they pick races where they can reuse existing skeletons and that also make "sense" for the context of the new expansion. Ogres, nagas, arrakoas, sethrak etc all require a new skeleton

How is that a bad thing tho? this is what most people want when asking for a NEW race. Races such as Ogres or Vrykul have their own model, people like them for that.
Imagine, the new moonkin model into an updated Ogre model. These things are plausible and frankly way more exciting then say a reskin of a dwarf we already have two off. Sure, theme and all that, but imo they took the most boring option, which is on the same level of diaper gnomes.

[Teriz]

Factually incorrect.
As I said, the roadmap says “return to the forbidden reach”
Not “new zone: forbidden reach”

You didn't get the memo;

[Ersula]

I wouldn't hold them to that image being canon....why is there a loading screen connecting Veldrakken & Khaz Algar at all?

Except the Goblin Raid and a tunnel that leads to Undermine from Khaz Algar which Goblins have apparently been using for years.

Wait, do they literally say there is a tunnel going all the way from Undermine to Khaz Algar? I was under the, more realistic, impression they came here in boats or submarines & drilled in from underwater. Considering how long that tunnel would be I would have to assume wherever it comes out in Khaz Algar has an entire civilization of Goblins.

In that case I can see a deeper Khaz Algar zone being added where the tunnel comes out that is populated with Goblins while the Goblin capital of Undermine being the raid. The closest real life analog is the UK - France chunnel tunnel so you know that that means: Train raid. Raid on a train.

[Nightshade711]

You didn't get the memo;

The roadmap I posted was the original, that one came after. (Hince why the “now live” is listed under Fractures in Time)

When it was announced, it was never announced as a new zone.
Try again.

[Alanar]

still waiting for gilgoblin customization options

I am not into those, but i think it would be fine as a customization option.

[Ersula]

The roadmap I posted was the original, that one came after. (Hince why the “now live” is listed under Fractures in Time)

When it was announced, it was never announced as a new zone.

Because it wasn't a new zone. We knew about the Forgotten Reach since the alpha.

You guys are arguing semantics so much you've lost the plot: The point is TWW doesn't have an equivalent unused zone at launch & 11.0.5 on the roadmap doesn't refer to anything resembling a new zone. So if we get a new zone, it'll be paired with the second raid. This topic is settled.

[Teriz]

I wouldn't hold them to that image being canon....why is there a loading screen connecting Veldrakken & Khaz Algar at all?Wait, do they literally say there is a tunnel going all the way from Undermine to Khaz Algar? I was under the, more realistic, impression they came here in boats or submarines & drilled in from underwater. Considering how long that tunnel would be I would have to assume wherever it comes out in Khaz Algar has an entire civilization of Goblins.

In that case I can see a deeper Khaz Algar zone being added where the tunnel comes out that is populated with Goblins while the Goblin capital of Undermine being the raid. The closest real life analog is the UK - France chunnel tunnel so you know that that means: Train raid. Raid on a train.

Again, I seriously doubt Blizzard is going to make Undermine into a glorified Gnomeregan. The main case being that Blizzard could put stuff like inns, auction houses, flight paths, the Brawler's Guild, race tracks, etc. in an Undermine zone, and still have a raid within the city.

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The roadmap I posted was the original, that one came after. (Hince why the “now live” is listed under Fractures in Time)

When it was announced, it was never announced as a new zone.
Try again.

So now we've devolved to "My roadmap is better than yours because (insert reason)!"

Like I said, it was labeled as a New Zone on Blizzard's roadmap, and that was clearly the case. Whatever silly spin you want to put on that fact is your business, but Blizzard DID label Forbidden Reach as a new zone on their roadmap.

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Because it wasn't a new zone. We knew about the Forgotten Reach since the alpha.

You guys are arguing semantics so much you've lost the plot: The point is TWW doesn't have an equivalent unused zone at launch & 11.0.5 on the roadmap doesn't refer to anything resembling a new zone. So if we get a new zone, it'll be paired with the second raid. This topic is settled.

We got a new zone in 10.0.7 and it wasn't paired with a new raid.

In addition, the Harronir are in the announcement trailer, which indicates that they're pre-11.1 content.

[Nightshade711]

Again, I seriously doubt Blizzard is going to make Undermine into a glorified Gnomeregan.

I definitely see it being a megadungeon. They’ve done so with other previous heavy-hitters.

Maybe after the rootlands raid we return to Kezan in 11.1.5/7 & they’d use the already present entrance to Undermine as the megadungeon entrance.

So now we've devolved to "My roadmap is better than yours because (insert reason)!"

Who said it was my roadmap? I don’t work for blizzard.

Like I said, it was labeled as a New Zone on Blizzard's roadmap, and that was clearly the case. Whatever silly spin you want to put on that fact is your business, but Blizzard DID label Forbidden Reach as a new zone on their roadmap.

After the fact at best.

And it is just a plain fact it wasn’t a new zone. It is like claiming Gilneas was a new zone because we had a reclamation storyline.

[Ersula]

We got a new zone in 10.0.7 and it wasn't paired with a new raid.

Except it wasn't really a new zone. Forgotten reach was in at launch at as the Drakthyr starting zone. 1.)The War Within doesn't have an equivalent unused launch zone, and 2.) the 2024 roadmap includes the first post launch patch & doesn't refer to including a new zone. Your points are contradicting each other & we just spent 5 pages trying to explain that to you.

[Nightshade711]

Except it wasn't really a new zone. Forgotten reach was in at launch at as the Drakthyr starting zone. 1.)The War Within doesn't have an equivalent unused launch zone, and 2.) the 2024 roadmap includes the first post launch patch & doesn't refer to including a new zone. Your points are contradicting each other & we just spent 5 pages trying to explain that to you.

Also not to mention, the rootlands is supposedly about the size of the ringing deeps.

The forbidden reach was such a small island and nowhere near the size of any of the patch/primary continent zones.
Would be weird for them to introduce such a large, major patch sized zone for a .5 or .7 patch.

[Teriz]

Who said it was my roadmap? I don’t work for blizzard.

You're attempting to argue that one roadmap is more valid than another when they're both roadmaps from Blizzard.

After the fact at best.

And it is just a plain fact it wasn’t a new zone.

And yet the fact remains that Blizzard called it a new zone on their roadmap.

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Except it wasn't really a new zone.

Blizzard disagrees.

[Ielenia]

Which is their capital and main city which houses the trade princes and the main hubs for their cartels. Again, if you have an underground capital, you tend to be an underground race.

No, that's just your headcanon. There is no lore that states the goblins are an underground race. If goblins were supposed to be an underground race, then their culture, architecture, etc, would reflect that, but none of that do. Dwarves are an actual representation of an underground race as even their buildings on the surface are built down into the ground, or into the sides of mountains. They tend to build down, not up. Y'know, like races used to being underground tend to do?

Goblins do not display this behavior. In fact, not only none of their settlements are underground, but they're all put in big, wide clearings.