The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nightshade711]

And yet the fact remains that Blizzard called it a new zone on their roadmap.

Fact remains that it wasn’t an actual new zone. Again it is like saying Gilneas was a new zone because it had a questline and some new NPCs

Also the same roadmap where they called augmentation a support spec when it is a DPS.

Regardless, doesn’t change the fact that the zone was so small and nearly inconsequential, it would never qualify for a full patch zone.
Compared to the rootlands which is supposed to be the size of a full zone. (Even Zaralek wasn’t even the size of the azure apan.

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No, that's just your headcanon. There is no lore that states the goblins are an underground race. If goblins were supposed to be an underground race, then their culture, architecture, etc, would reflect that, but none of that do. Dwarves are an actual representation of an underground race as even their buildings on the surface are built down into the ground, or into the sides of mountains. They tend to build down, not up. Y'know, like races used to being underground tend to do?

Goblins do not display this behavior. In fact, not only none of their settlements are underground, but they're all put in big, wide clearings.

Isn’t their starting zone very decidedly above-ground too?
Weird that their playable introduction barely touched the underground when they’re an “underground race”

[Timester]

Which is their capital and main city which houses the trade princes and the main hubs for their cartels. Again, if you have an underground capital, you tend to be an underground race.

The goblin starting zone is literally a surface city with highways. The only thing that connects goblins to have an underground capital is the fact they called it "Undermine". There are no other goblin lore saying that goblins are an underground race, quite the opposite.

[Teriz]

No, that's just your headcanon. There is no lore that states the goblins are an underground race.

Wouldn't the lore around Undermine being the capital of the Goblin race be an example of lore that states that Goblins are an underground race?

Goblins do not display this behavior. In fact, not only none of their settlements are underground, but they're all put in big, wide clearings.

Undermine is their main settlement and the core of their civilization, and its underground.

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The goblin starting zone is literally a surface city with highways. The only thing that connects goblins to have an underground capital is the fact they called it "Undermine". There are no other goblin lore saying that goblins are an underground race, quite the opposite.

That would be because Blizzard has a rather long developmental history of being unable to create Undermine as they envisioned it. Undermine was slated to be in vanilla, but it was scrapped due to cost concerns, and obviously they weren't going to build an entire underground goblin city for a racial starter zone in Cataclysm.

In short, Undermine was to be implemented long before Kezan was.

[Timester]

No, that's just your headcanon. There is no lore that states the goblins are an underground race. If goblins were supposed to be an underground race, then their culture, architecture, etc, would reflect that, but none of that do. Dwarves are an actual representation of an underground race as even their buildings on the surface are built down into the ground, or into the sides of mountains. They tend to build down, not up. Y'know, like races used to being underground tend to do?

Goblins do not display this behavior. In fact, not only none of their settlements are underground, but they're all put in big, wide clearings.

Exactly.

We have the game itself to support it. Motherload dungeon, the motherload of Azerite ore, is a surface dungeon on Kezan. The two times we have Kezan in-game and they are both clearly surface, with skyscrappers and highways.

[Nightshade711]

Exactly.

We have the game itself to support it. Motherload dungeon, the motherload of Azerite ore, is a surface dungeon on Kezan. The two times we have Kezan in-game and they are both clearly surface, with skyscrappers and highways.

I forgot about the motherlode too.

I think that lends more to the possibility that we’d return to the goblin starting zone version of Kezan (using updated the updated models) for a minor patch story like Gilneas.
I could see it being a follow-up for Gazlowe to the possible Venture Co. Story/raid in the rootlands.

[Teriz]

Fact remains that it wasn’t an actual new zone. Again it is like saying Gilneas was a new zone because it had a questline and some new NPCs

The fact remains that we have an official Blizzard road map where it says we got a new zone in 10.0.7.

I mean, why even argue against that fact?

[Timester]

Wouldn't the lore around Undermine being the capital of the Goblin race be an example of lore that states that Goblins are an underground race?

Lore states that goblins are a surface race, right from their origins in Chronicles vol. I. They were pygmies-related race transformed by Mimiron, moved to Kezan and lived on the surface until the Zandalari started mining Kezan.

You have to back up your statement.

[Nightshade711]

The fact remains that we have an official Blizzard road map where it says we got a new zone in 10.0.7.

Maybe because there’s also roadmaps & announcements that don’t say it is a new zone, but instead we’re returning.

It is also common sense that us returning to an unaltered zone we’ve already been to means by definition, that it is not a new zone. You pick the weirdest hills to die on.

[Teriz]

Maybe because there’s also roadmaps & announcements that don’t say it is a new zone, but instead we’re returning.

It is also common sense that us returning to an unaltered zone we’ve already been to means by definition, that it is not a new zone. You pick the weirdest hills to die on.

Wouldn’t common sense dictate that Blizzard viewing Forbidden Reach as a new zone overrides your personal opinion?

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Lore states that goblins are a surface race, right from their origins in Chronicles vol. I. They were pygmies-related race transformed by Mimiron, moved to Kezan and lived on the surface until the Zandalari started mining Kezan.

You have to back up your statement.

Just read up on the lore prior to Chronicles.

[Nightshade711]

Wouldn’t common sense dictate that Blizzard viewing Forbidden Reach as a new zone overrides your personal opinion?

No because blizzard’s views don’t change the definition of words.

The patch’s name is even “return to the forbidden reach”
How do we return to somewhere we’ve already been if it is new?
It is exactly like us saying Gilneas is a new zone.

[Teriz]

No because blizzard’s views don’t change the definition of words.

But this isn’t about the definition of words, this is about content, and Blizzard controls their content. To Blizzard they released a new zone in patch 10.0.7 without an accompanying raid. That’s simply a fact.

It also opens up the possibility of them doing it again.

[Timester]

Just read up on the lore prior to Chronicles.

You know how current lore works, right? And the goblins origin was first written, by Metzen, in Chronicles Vol I.

But this isn’t about the definition of words, this is about content, and Blizzard controls their content.

From your goblin headcanon, doesn't seems you believe that yourself.

[Nightshade711]

But this isn’t about the definition of words, this is about content, and Blizzard controls their content. To Blizzard they released a new zone in patch 10.0.7 without an accompanying raid. That’s simply a fact.

Except the zone itself still, by definition, was not new. It was a starting zone that was unused outside of that. (Hint: Kind of like Gilneas)
TWW doesn’t have that so far, except maybe the Earthen starting zone.

And besides, the datamined size of the rootlands already disqualifies it as minor patch content like you keep trying to suggest.

[Teriz]

[QUOTE=Nightshade711;54487432]Except the zone itself still, by definition, was not new.

This is entirely your opinion.

TWW doesn’t have that so far, except maybe the Earthen starting zone.

And besides, the datamined size of the rootlands already disqualifies it as minor patch content like you keep trying to suggest.

Wasn’t the Forbidden Reach about the size of a standard zone in Dragonflight? It was added in a minor patch.

[Nightshade711]

This is entirely your opinion.

No Teriz, the definition of the word “new” isn’t an opinion.

Wasn’t the Forbidden Reach about the size of a standard zone in Dragonflight? It was added in a minor patch.

Not even close

[Ielenia]

Wouldn't the lore around Undermine being the capital of the Goblin race be an example of lore that states that Goblins are an underground race?

Not when literally everything else about the race's looks, culture, architecture and settlements contradict that idea. Again: all the goblin settlements are made above ground. They're all in open areas. Goblins build up instead of down into the ground.

You're putting your own headcanon and bias above the lore shown in the game.

Undermine is their main settlement and the core of their civilization, and its underground.

Irrelevant, as explained above. It's the exception to the rule.

You want an example of an actual underground race? Look at the dwarves. Goblins are as much an underground race as taurens are a technological race.

[Teriz]

You know how current lore works, right? And the goblins origin was first written, by Metzen, in Chronicles Vol I.

Was Undermine mentioned in Chronicles?

[Ielenia]

Just read up on the lore prior to Chronicles.

Why should we bother with outdated lore that is no longer valid/canon?

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This is entirely your opinion.

It's not an opinion. That's a fact. The Forbidden Reaches was part of the game and technically accessible (by new evoker players) since the Dragonflight pre-patch.

[Teriz]

Not
You want an example of an actual underground race? Look at the dwarves. Goblins are as much an underground race as taurens are a technological race.

And what exactly makes Dwarves an underground race?

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Why should we bother with outdated lore that is no longer valid/canon?

Because Blizzard has a history of implementing “outdated lore” into the game.

It's not an opinion. That's a fact. The Forbidden Reaches was part of the game and technically accessible (by new evoker players) since the Dragonflight pre-patch.

Yet Blizzard called it a new zone. So yes, it is an opinion.

[Nightshade711]

Yet Blizzard called it a new zone. So yes, it is an opinion.

Blizzard saying something is “new” doesn’t change the definition of the word.