The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ielenia]

Because Chronicle makes no mention or description of Undermine, despite Undermine being proposed as a city/continent in vanilla, mentioned multiple times throuhought the history of WoW, and is being currently name dropped in Khaz Algar.

Things change with time. Pandaria was supposed to be just another zone in south Kalimdor, but instead Blizzard made it its own continent instead. The point is that it doesn't really matter how it was originally envisioned, things can still go bigger or smaller when they decide to implement it. IF --and that's a big 'if'-- added mid-TWW, undermine is certainly not going to be 'continent-sized', for example. At best, it'll be at best a single zone, but more likely just part of a zone.

[Teriz]

Things change with time. Pandaria was supposed to be just another zone in south Kalimdor, but instead Blizzard made it its own continent instead. The point is that it doesn't really matter how it was originally envisioned, things can still go bigger or smaller when they decide to implement it. IF --and that's a big 'if'-- added mid-TWW, undermine is certainly not going to be 'continent-sized', for example. At best, it'll be at best a single zone, but more likely just part of a zone.

A zone the size of Zalarak or Emerald Dream/Amir'drassil will be more than enough for a Goblin city with a raid instance in its center.

[Makorus]

Being right for the wrong reasons isn't really what you make it out to be here. His argumentation was still bollocks, he just happened to hit the correct outcome by accident.

I mean, as obnoxious as his "Right in hindsight" schtick is, I will 100% defend him on the Augmentation thing. The way people insisted it wasn't gonna happen when there was piles and piles and piles of evidence was a bit ridiculous.

[Ielenia]

A zone the size of Zalarak or Emerald Dream/Amir'drassil will be more than enough for a Goblin city with a raid instance in its center.

And if you look at the examples you listed you'd see it backs my argument: undermine is unlikely to be the entire zone, since even Zaralek Caverns are not uniform in its layout.

It needs open areas for enemies to be in, so undermine is likely to be just the size of Gadgetzan, like how Loamm is in Zaralek Cavern. At best, it'll be roughly as big as Suramar city is in the Suramar zone. It's not going to be just one entire zone with nothing but a giant city where we fight nothing but goblins.

And even then we're likely to be stationed OUTSIDE undermine while sieging it, not in it. Again, like Suramar.

[Makorus]

And if you look at the examples you listed you'd see it backs my argument: undermine is unlikely to be the entire zone, since even Zaralek Caverns are not uniform in its layout.

It needs open areas for enemies to be in, so undermine is likely to be just the size of Gadgetzan, like how Loamm is in Zaralek Cavern. At best, it'll be roughly as big as Suramar city is in the Suramar zone. It's not going to be just one entire zone with nothing but a giant city where we fight nothing but goblins.

I mean, they could do the "Hearthstone Gadgetzan" concept for Undermine, which would honestly be a cool idea.

You can easily have non-Goblin mobs in it. I just don't see how a whole patch focused around Undermine in this saga that's already too jam-packed themes-wise as is.

[Teriz]

And if you look at the examples you listed you'd see it backs my argument: undermine is unlikely to be the entire zone, since even Zaralek Caverns are not uniform in its layout.

It needs open areas for enemies to be in, so undermine is likely to be just the size of Gadgetzan, like how Loamm is in Zaralek Cavern. At best, it'll be roughly as big as Suramar city is in the Suramar zone. It's not going to be just one entire zone with nothing but a giant city where we fight nothing but goblins.

And even then we're likely to be stationed OUTSIDE undermine while sieging it, not in it. Again, like Suramar.

Again I have serious doubts that they’re going to turn undermine into a glorified Gnomeregan or Stratholme. A more likely scenario is it ends up being more like Borealus, Dalaran, or Suramar; City hubs with raids and instances within them. I could also see them utilizing Zalarek tech to allow you to move between Undermine and Kezan on the surface.

[Ielenia]

I mean, they could do the "Hearthstone Gadgetzan" concept for Undermine, which would honestly be a cool idea.

You can easily have non-Goblin mobs in it. I just don't see how a whole patch focused around Undermine in this saga that's already too jam-packed themes-wise as is.

If even Suramar. Dazar'Alor and Boralus were not made into entire zones of their own, I sincerely doubt Blizzard is going to do that for undermine.

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Again I have serious doubts that they’re going to turn undermine into a glorified Gnomeregan or Stratholme.

Why not? Lore-wise those cities are much bigger than their in-game representation. And that is true for everything. Even Goldshire is much, much bigger than just four buildings in the lore.

A more likely scenario is it ends up being more like Borealus, Dalaran, or Suramar; City hubs with raids and instances within them.

So you agree with me that, if implemented, undermine is not going to be a zone of its own?

[Teriz]

Why not?

Because throwing players into a city-wide raid with no context or connection to the city they’re raiding in makes zero narrative sense.

So you agree with me that, if implemented, undermine is not going to be a zone of its own?

It would get its own zone because it’s the focus of the patch.

[Ersula]

I mean, when Teriz said the next expansion would be Undermine, a lot of us including me said the next expansion would be underground-themed but it wouldn't be Undermine and apparently he's the one who gets all the clout for that.

[Cheezits]

I find it odd that they are portraying "Gallywix as the leader of Venture Co" as some kind of big reveal. Why is that a reveal? Why would no goblin be talking about it?

I can chalk it up to "they didn't know what they wanted to do with him" for SL and DF but if his path is set now, there's no reason it should be a secret thing.

[Nightshade711]

The way people insisted it wasn't gonna happen when there was piles and piles and piles of evidence was a bit ridiculous.

To be fair Teriz does the same exact same thing.
Throwback to when he argued for pages that the Algarian Stormrider mount was going to be an elemental from the storm peaks because TWW was an elemental expansion.

Or how now he’s doing that for the rootlands/Elun’ahir zone just because he wants undermine.

Or the infamous “Dracthyr are dragons even though the official lore says otherwise”

[Nibelheimy]

I still remember 20 pages of yrel is definately next and here's why.

[Makabreska]

Holy crap! The presence of Void and Void-adjacent enemies so far in TWW is staggering. They usually put much more variety in the enemy factions of expansion. With this big concentration of dark blue, I wonder what will we have in Midnight.

[Reive]

How is that a bad thing tho? this is what most people want when asking for a NEW race. Races such as Ogres or Vrykul have their own model, people like them for that.
Imagine, the new moonkin model into an updated Ogre model. These things are plausible and frankly way more exciting then say a reskin of a dwarf we already have two off. Sure, theme and all that, but imo they took the most boring option, which is on the same level of diaper gnomes.

i didn't say it was a bad thing. i just explained imo why blizzard doesn't really add popular races

[Makorus]

Holy crap! The presence of Void and Void-adjacent enemies so far in TWW is staggering. They usually put much more variety in the enemy factions of expansion. With this big concentration of dark blue, I wonder what will we have in Midnight.

Honestly, I am really, really looking forward to what angles they are going for going into Midnight and TLT. There's so many different directions and it's honestly really exciting. I think announcing all three expansions was the right call.

[Teriz]

To be fair Teriz does the same exact same thing.
Throwback to when he argued for pages that the Algarian Stormrider mount was going to be an elemental from the storm peaks because TWW was an elemental expansion.

Mere speculation in a speculative thread.

Or how now he’s doing that for the rootlands/Elun’ahir zone just because he wants undermine.

Because patch raids tend to match the theme of their accompanying zone post Dragonflight.

Or the infamous “Dracthyr are dragons even though the official lore says otherwise”

I didn’t call them Dragons, Blizzard did.

[Makorus]

Mere speculation in a speculative thread.



Because patch raids tend to match the theme of their accompanying zone post Dragonflight.



I didn’t call them Dragons, Blizzard did.

Who said we are getting an Undermine raid?

You can have a raid set in the Rootlands and yet primarily deal with Goblin enemies which is what the common speculation is atm.

Generally, we don't really fight the inhabitants of a place we fight to protect. That's like saying the zone in 10.2 should have been Firelands because we mostly fight fire-elemental aligned bosses.

[milkmustache]

That's an interesting development.

At this point it's building past "where there's smoke, there's fire". They have been using portions of SoD to tie some additional lore threads into the mix for TWW, specifically with Xal'atath.

Goblin patch incoming, and methinks it's Undermine.

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Who said we are getting an Undermine raid?

You can have a raid set in the Rootlands and yet primarily deal with Goblin enemies which is what the common speculation is atm.

Generally, we don't really fight the inhabitants of a place we fight to protect. That's like saying the zone in 10.2 should have been Firelands because we mostly fight fire-elemental aligned bosses.

To be fair though, a lot of Teriz's speculation on a hypothetical Undermine patch revolves around squabbling cartels. If they impliment Undermine as a large city zone, we may see many subfaction areas that are more open to us, and others that aren't.

Nighthold is a good example. We're fighting Legion aligned Suramarians to liberate Suramar in totality. Something very similar would be the case in this situation I think is Teriz's belief.

[Makorus]

At this point it's building past "where there's smoke, there's fire". They have been using portions of SoD to tie some additional lore threads into the mix for TWW, specifically with Xal'atath.

Goblin patch incoming, and methinks it's Undermine.

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To be fair though, a lot of Teriz's speculation on a hypothetical Undermine patch revolves around squabbling cartels. If they impliment Undermine as a large city zone, we may see many subfaction areas that are more open to us, and others that aren't.

Nighthold is a good example. We're fighting Legion aligned Suramarians to liberate Suramar in totality. Something very similar would be the case in this situation I think is Teriz's belief.

Is there space for a patch solely dedicated to Goblins though? There's too many open plotpoints in TWW that I don't think they are going to dedicate a whole patch to goblins.

Don't get me wrong, I would love some actual serious Goblin content, I just don't think it's gonna happen. I think it's gonna be a "Nature vs. Machinery" Rootlands patch.

[Nightshade711]

Is there space for a patch solely dedicated to Goblins though? There's too many open plotpoints in TWW that I don't think they are going to dedicate a whole patch to goblins.

Don't get me wrong, I would love some actual serious Goblin content, I just don't think it's gonna happen. I think it's gonna be a "Nature vs. Machinery" Rootlands patch.

It’s definitely possible goblins could get a .5 or .7 patch, given how they’ve done side stories like Gilneas for minor patch content.

I could see them having us return to Kezan as either a lead-up to the rootlands “nature vs machinery” patch or as a follow-up after the patch. That way they also wouldn’t have to waste time making an entirely new zone like how they reused the Forbidden Reach.